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Old 03-14-2008, 12:01 AM   #81
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I don't understand it either, Dreadsox.

If Obama was smart, he would appear and publicly, strongly denounce and reject Wright, and toss him out of the campaign. Hasn't Obama said that anyone who used negative, hateful language in the campaign would be asked to leave? He needs to live up to his own rule, otherwise this facade of running a new type of political campaign will continue to crumble.
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Old 03-14-2008, 12:07 AM   #82
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Originally posted by Irvine511




do you endorse the comments of Reverend Hagee?

Of course not.

Both Wright and Hagee have said terrible things and both candidates need to reject them.

That being said, there is a difference between the two. Hagee isn't McCain's pastor. Obama went searching for a church and pastor he felt comfortable with, and ended up embracing Mr. Wright. There are certainly (and rightfully so) more suspicions and questions regarding Obama's 20-year relationship with Wright than there are with a reverend with no previous ties to McCain who happens to support his candidacy.
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Old 03-14-2008, 12:43 AM   #83
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Originally posted by Irvine511




i agree -- it would be smarter of Obama to distance himself from this guy. the Republican plan to "swift boat" Obama is to try to create some sort of revelation of him as some sort of unrepentant Black Panther radical who hates white people.

it's garbage, of course. but that is what they are going to try to do and scare away the blue collar whites who are still mildly racist in a non-specific sense.
How are Republicans getting blamed in advance for politics-as-usual in a Democratic primary?????

Who gave "the picture" to the Drudge Report?
Who first made prominent mention of Obama's middle name? (Answer, Clinton backer Bob Kerrey, Dec 07)
Who's camp made remarks about cocaine usage?
Who linked Obama to "slumlords"?

And these current revelations as well, are either from Team Clinton or maybe, finally, a press corp doing a little more research and a little less fawning.
Not, I suspect, from the GOP, Swift Boat Veterans, or Karl Rove.

There will be plenty of time during the general election for the uttering of hackneyed Democratic canards & myths...so let's please wait until then.
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Old 03-14-2008, 12:53 AM   #84
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Of course not.

Both Wright and Hagee have said terrible things and both candidates need to reject them.

That being said, there is a difference between the two. Hagee isn't McCain's pastor. Obama went searching for a church and pastor he felt comfortable with, and ended up embracing Mr. Wright. There are certainly (and rightfully so) more suspicions and questions regarding Obama's 20-year relationship with Wright than there are with a reverend with no previous ties to McCain who happens to support his candidacy.
Obama was married by pastor Wright.

In addition, Obama got the title of his book "The Audacity Of Hope" from one of his sermons.
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Old 03-14-2008, 12:11 PM   #85
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How are Republicans getting blamed in advance for politics-as-usual in a Democratic primary?????



this is the line of attack that the Clintons have opened up. the Republicans will follow in the general if he is the nominee.





Quote:
There will be plenty of time during the general election for the uttering of hackneyed Democratic canards & myths...so let's please wait until then.

the Swift Boating was a myth?

one thing i envy about Republicans: the ability to use piety and unrepentant venom in the same sentence.
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Old 03-14-2008, 12:12 PM   #86
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one thing i envy about Republicans: the ability to use piety and unrepentant venom in the same sentence.
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Old 03-14-2008, 12:20 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




one thing i envy about Republicans: the ability to use piety and unrepentant venom in the same sentence.
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:38 PM   #88
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Originally posted by Irvine511

the Swift Boating was a myth?


Quote:
the Republican plan to "swift boat" Obama
Of coarse you're using it in the future tense aren't you?

The mythology is that Democrats never lose presidential elections...they're stolen from them. By "October surprise" or "fear-mongering." By, absurdly, paper ballots one election and electronic voting the next. And now "swift boating," this unseen force that Republicans can apparently now tap into that will magically deliver them to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Tell me, does on click their heels and repeat "There's no place like the White House, there's no place like the White House" to make it work?
Quote:
one thing i envy about Republicans: the ability to use piety and unrepentant venom in the same sentence.
Quote:
Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. America is still the No. 1 killer in the world.

We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.

We do not care if poor black and brown children cannot read and kill each other senselessly. We abandoned the cities back in the '60s when the riots started and it really doesn't matter what those nations do to each other; we gave up on them and public education of poor people who live in the projects . . .”

We started the AIDS virus, and now that it is out of control, we still put more money in the military than in medicine; more money in hate than in humanitarian concerns. Everybody does not have access to healthcare, I don't care what the rich white boys in the Senate say. Listen up: If you are poor, black and elderly, forget it.”

We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty.

We are selfish, self-centered egotists who are arrogant and ignorant and betray our church and do not try to make the kingdom that Jesus talked about a reality. And — and — and in light of these 10 facts, God has got to be sick of this shit.”
--The Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr (who I'm guessing is not Republican)
Jan. 15, 2006

This is unrepentant venomous piety (delivered in a chapel no less) -- not my subtle reference to empty election year Democratic mantras.
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:54 PM   #89
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With the exception of the "we started the AIDS virus", I don't disagree with a lot of what he's saying. I disagree with his approach, just like I disagree with any "us vs them" type of mentality. Twist a few words around and it could easily sound very Repbublican like. All sides have extremists, let's distance ourselves from them.
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:22 PM   #90
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
With the exception of the "we started the AIDS virus", I don't disagree with a lot of what he's saying. I disagree with his approach, just like I disagree with any "us vs them" type of mentality. Twist a few words around and it could easily sound very Repbublican like. All sides have extremists, let's distance ourselves from them.
BVS, respectably, maybe that's why we disagree so much. Most Americans think this is all garbage and harmful. Admittedly, I highlighted the most inflammatory lines, but only the far-left -- not Democrats or liberals mind you-- but the far-left, find any of this acceptable.

If Barack Obama allows himself to be associated with this...he's done. Not because he's black, not because he's liberal, but because few American's believe this type of hateful far-left anti-American rhetoric. They don't believe their country is racist or uncaring about the world's poor. Just as they don't believe GWB is a war criminal, our CIA ruthless torturers or our troops a bunch of sadistic puppy killers.
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:35 PM   #91
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How long has Senator Obama been associated with this Reverand's church?

I think Obama can recover from this, but it might be too late to denounce the guy. It's a good thing for the Obama campaign that Pennsylvania isn't voting in the next few days.
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:36 PM   #92
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BVS, respectably, maybe that's why we disagree so much. Most Americans think this is all garbage and harmful. Admittedly, I highlighted the most inflammatory lines, but only the far-left -- not Democrats or liberals mind you-- but the far-left, find any of this acceptable.
I agree the approach is harmful.

Let me break it down for you:
Quote:
Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. America is still the No. 1 killer in the world.
Racism is alive and well. Racism did play a large part in how this nation was developed. And as far as civilized countries that pride themselves on being a moral country, we are the No. 1 killer. All sad but all true. No matter how you paint it.

Quote:
We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.
As a big fan of status quo yourself, you can see how social conservatism doesn't really work if you are minority.

Quote:
We do not care if poor black and brown children cannot read and kill each other senselessly. We abandoned the cities back in the '60s when the riots started and it really doesn't matter what those nations do to each other; we gave up on them and public education of poor people who live in the projects . . .”
Not much I can argue with. If you've ever done any real research about life in poverty, you'll see it's a vicious cycle. Not many are doing anything to end this cycle.

Quote:
We started the AIDS virus, and now that it is out of control, we still put more money in the military than in medicine; more money in hate than in humanitarian concerns. Everybody does not have access to healthcare, I don't care what the rich white boys in the Senate say. Listen up: If you are poor, black and elderly, forget it.”
Everyone doesn't have access to healthcare. And how much do we spend on weapons of destruction compared to truly necessary medicine?


Quote:
We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty.
Well this is actually a worldwide phenomenon, "humanity" has a history of making sure someone is going to be below them.

Quote:
We are selfish, self-centered egotists who are arrogant and ignorant and betray our church and do not try to make the kingdom that Jesus talked about a reality. And — and — and in light of these 10 facts, God has got to be sick of this shit.”
Amen.
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:40 PM   #93
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Originally posted by Bluer White
How long has Senator Obama been associated with this Reverand's church?

For 20 years Obama has called this racist a friend and mentor. 20 years. He should have walked out of the church as soon as Wright started "preaching," but he didn't. Bad judgment, Mr. Obama.
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:54 PM   #94
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
With the exception of the "we started the AIDS virus", I don't disagree with a lot of what he's saying. I disagree with his approach, just like I disagree with any "us vs them" type of mentality. Twist a few words around and it could easily sound very Repbublican like. All sides have extremists, let's distance ourselves from them.
Agreed. The approach sucked and looks bad.
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Old 03-14-2008, 04:01 PM   #95
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For 20 years Obama has called this racist a friend and mentor. 20 years. He should have walked out of the church as soon as Wright started "preaching," but he didn't. Bad judgment, Mr. Obama.
I probably would have walked out if I heard this sermon. But I'd also walk out of your church, and many of the other poster's churches as well given some of the beliefs in here.
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Old 03-14-2008, 04:28 PM   #96
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Wall Street Journal

OPINION

Obama and the Minister
By RONALD KESSLER
March 14, 2008; Page A19

In a sermon delivered at Howard University, Barack Obama's longtime minister, friend and adviser blamed America for starting the AIDS virus, training professional killers, importing drugs and creating a racist society that would never elect a black candidate president.

The Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., pastor of Mr. Obama's Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, gave the sermon at the school's Andrew Rankin Memorial Chapel in Washington on Jan. 15, 2006.

We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he began. "Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. No black man will ever be considered for president, no matter how hard you run Jesse [Jackson] and no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body."

Mr. Wright thundered on: "America is still the No. 1 killer in the world. . . . We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns, and the training of professional killers . . . We bombed Cambodia, Iraq and Nicaragua, killing women and children while trying to get public opinion turned against Castro and Ghadhafi . . . We put [Nelson] Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there. We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."

His voice rising, Mr. Wright said, "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic. . . . We care nothing about human life if the end justifies the means. . . ."

Concluding, Mr. Wright said: "We started the AIDS virus . . . We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty. . . ."

Considering this view of America, it's not surprising that in December Mr. Wright's church gave an award to Louis Farrakhan for lifetime achievement. In the church magazine, Trumpet, Mr. Wright spoke glowingly of the Nation of Islam leader. "His depth on analysis [sic] when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening," Mr. Wright said of Mr. Farrakhan. "He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest."

After Newsmax broke the story of the award to Farrakhan on Jan. 14, Mr. Obama issued a statement. However, Mr. Obama ignored the main point: that his minister and friend had spoken adoringly of Mr. Farrakhan, and that Mr. Wright's church was behind the award to the Nation of Islam leader.

Instead, Mr. Obama said, "I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan. I assume that Trumpet magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree." Trumpet is owned and produced by Mr. Wright's church out of the church's offices, and Mr. Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor.

Meeting with Jewish leaders in Cleveland on Feb. 24, Mr. Obama described Mr. Wright as being like "an old uncle who sometimes will say things that I don't agree with." He rarely mentions the points of disagreement.

Mr. Obama went on to explain Mr. Wright's anti-Zionist statements as being rooted in his anger over the Jewish state's support for South Africa under its previous policy of apartheid. As with his previous claim that his church gave the award to Mr. Farrakhan because of his work with ex-offenders, Mr. Obama appears to have made that up.

Neither the presentation of the award nor the Trumpet article about the award mentions ex-offenders, and Mr. Wright's statements denouncing Israel have not been qualified in any way. Mr. Obama nonetheless told the Jewish leaders that the award to Mr. Farrakhan "showed a lack of sensitivity to the Jewish community." That is an understatement.

As for Mr. Wright's repeated comments blaming America for the 9/11 attacks because of what Mr. Wright calls its racist and violent policies, Mr. Obama has said it sounds as if the minister was trying to be "provocative."

Hearing Mr. Wright's venomous and paranoid denunciations of this country, the vast majority of Americans would walk out. Instead, Mr. Obama and his wife Michelle have presumably sat through numerous similar sermons by Mr. Wright.

Indeed, Mr. Obama has described Mr. Wright as his "sounding board" during the two decades he has known him. Mr. Obama has said he found religion through the minister in the 1980s. He joined the church in 1991 and walked down the aisle in a formal commitment of faith.

The title of Mr. Obama's bestseller "The Audacity of Hope" comes from one of Wright's sermons. Mr. Wright is one of the first people Mr. Obama thanked after his election to the Senate in 2004. Mr. Obama consulted Mr. Wright before deciding to run for president. He prayed privately with Mr. Wright before announcing his candidacy last year.

Mr. Obama obviously would not choose to belong to Mr. Wright's church and seek his advice unless he agreed with at least some of his views. In light of Mr. Wright's perspective, Michelle Obama's comment that she feels proud of America for the first time in her adult life makes perfect sense.

Much as most of us would appreciate the symbolism of a black man ascending to the presidency, what we have in Barack Obama is a politician whose closeness to Mr. Wright underscores his radical record.

The media have largely ignored Mr. Obama's close association with Mr. Wright. This raises legitimate questions about Mr. Obama's fundamental beliefs about his country. Those questions deserve a clearer answer than Mr. Obama has provided so far.

Mr. Kessler, a former Wall Street Journal and Washington Post reporter, is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com and the author of "The Terrorist Watch: Inside the Desperate Race to Stop the Next Attack
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Old 03-14-2008, 04:39 PM   #97
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For 20 years Obama has called this racist a friend and mentor. 20 years. He should have walked out of the church as soon as Wright started "preaching," but he didn't. Bad judgment, Mr. Obama.


you're right. i think Obama needs to surround himself with people who only think the same things he does. and who compliment him whenever he says anything. and who tell him that any idea he has is a good one. and that, gosh darn it, we're americans. everything we do is good and right and just.

and then we can re-invade Iraq.
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Old 03-14-2008, 04:45 PM   #98
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Originally posted by Irvine511
you're right. i think Obama needs to surround himself with people who only think the same things he does.
do any of us know how or what he really thinks?


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


and then we can re-invade Iraq.
that is an Obama option

the idea that Obama gets the U S out of Iraq - is a pipe dream

despite what has avid followers believe
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Old 03-14-2008, 04:49 PM   #99
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I don't think he'll get us out of Iraq, I don't think anyone will for the foreseeable future. Best I can hope for is something far less than that 100 years. I think people are dreaming or delusional if they think Obama can do that. At least Bush will be home enjoying that brown brown grass of home.
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Old 03-14-2008, 04:52 PM   #100
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I don't think he'll get us out of Iraq, I don't think anyone will for the foreseeable future. Best I can hope for is something far less than that 100 years.
so an Obama 20 year plan is good for you?

and this from a guy

that is only where he is at because he kept saying

I was against the War in 2002


and Hillary was not.
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