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Old 04-16-2008, 09:15 AM   #501
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I should've known you would beat me to it, Mrs.S



A wise decision, Bruce!
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:20 AM   #502
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
boston.com

Posted by Scott Helman, Political Reporter April 15, 2008 05:18 PM

QUAKERTOWN, Pa. -- Older voters gravitate to Hillary Clinton because they're too wise to be fooled by Barack Obama's rhetoric, former president Bill Clinton told Pennsylvania voters today.

Clinton's comments, to a packed high school gym about an hour north of Philadelphia, were one part presidential politics and one part legacy protection. His beef was with Obama's contention that many of the problems facing the country today were simmering long before President Bush took office seven-plus years ago.

"I think there is a big reason there's an age difference in a lot of these polls," he said. "Because once you've reached a certain age, you won't sit there and listen to somebody tell you there's really no difference between what happened in the Bush years and the Clinton years; that there's not much difference in how small-town Pennsylvania fared when I was president, and in this decade."

"So I think it's important that we get to the truth of this," Clinton continued, going on to compare his and Bush's record on jobs, family incomes, and other measures.

Last week, however, Clinton seemed to suggest that older voters might be more absent-minded than wise. Defending Hillary Clinton's faulty recollection of landing under sniper fire during a 1996 humanitarian visit to Bosnia, the former president said of her critics, "When they're 60, they'll forget something when they're tired at 11 o'clock at night, too."

At various points in his nearly hour-long appearance at Quakertown Community High School, Clinton cautioned the hundreds gathered to hear him against voting on history. (His defense of his White House record notwithstanding, of course.) Despite press coverage about how historic a campaign this is, Clinton said, "the history doesn't amount to a hill of beans. All that matters is the future. Who will make the best future for you?"

And later, after he had run through, in great detail, the ins and outs of America's foreign and domestic policy challenges, Clinton returned to the theme of substance versus abstraction. Hillary Clinton, he said, would be a "servant leader," and voters had to decide whether that was more important than electing a "symbolic leader." "You gotta decide," he said, as if he had laid out even arguments for each.
Oh thanks Bill, I'm just a stupid young voter "fooled" into supporting Obama. I guess I'll go to a blissfully ignorant life and not pay attention to politics anymore because obviously I'm too naive and stupid to be involved.

Who will make a better future for me...the co-candidate who insults me or the one who gives me a chance to make the change myself?
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:24 PM   #503
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I think I'm just about finished with this.

I'll keep my eyes closed until November.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:34 PM   #504
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat

Who will make a better future for me...the co-candidate who insults me or the one who gives me a chance to make the change myself?



we all know you can't win the election without the bitter old white racist vote.
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Old 04-16-2008, 07:58 PM   #505
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So I'm watching the debate on ABC when I should be doing other more productive things, but just a comment - the American media is disgraceful. The two moderators (Gibson and Stephanopoulos) are either actually genuinely stupid or just complete hacks which is disappointing. Their questions are actually a stunning example of the contempt that the media has for the general public - to ask idiotic stupidities like what they've been asking is not even befitting a high school newspaper.

Awful, awful, awful. What an utter embarrassment. To have some of the finest educational institutions and journalism schools in the whole world and produce this is astonishing.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:04 PM   #506
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it won't be on here in CA
for 2 more hours
I may watch parts

I don't think I will be able to watch the whole thing



If Obama has a good showing in Penn next Tuesday, I'd say come within 5-6 points

this should be over pretty soon.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:06 PM   #507
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Really if I was either candidate I would have walked out. That's how stupid it is.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:10 PM   #508
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The election process in America
(every aspect of it)

leaves much to be desired.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:30 PM   #509
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
the American media is disgraceful

...

genuinely stupid or just complete hacks

...

To have some of the finest educational institutions and journalism schools in the whole world and produce this is astonishing.
Yup...this sums up American news media alright.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:33 PM   #510
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
The two moderators (Gibson and Stephanopoulos) are either actually genuinely stupid or just complete hacks which is disappointing.
Stephanopoulos is intelligent enough to know better...Gibson at least has the excuse of bovine stupidity.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:41 PM   #511
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I just turned it on. FLAG PINS!! They're talking about flag pins.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:43 PM   #512
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"Do you believe in the flag?" was the question I think.

I honestly can't imagine any candidate in any other Western country being asked something this stupid and this irrelevant.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:08 PM   #513
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Somebody really needs to start a 'worst gaffe' poll. There have been so many!

Nominations:

Hillary's false story of being shot at in Bosnia, as well as her nonexistent high school soccer career

Obama's preacher's comments

Obama's grandma 'typical white person'

Bill Clinton's racially sensitive remarks in SC

Geraldine Ferraro's comment that Obama was only where he is because he is black

Obama's small town 'bitter' comments

McCain stay in Iraq for 100 years

others please specify...
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:22 PM   #514
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
So I'm watching the debate on ABC when I should be doing other more productive things, but just a comment - the American media is disgraceful. The two moderators (Gibson and Stephanopoulos) are either actually genuinely stupid or just complete hacks which is disappointing. Their questions are actually a stunning example of the contempt that the media has for the general public - to ask idiotic stupidities like what they've been asking is not even befitting a high school newspaper.

Awful, awful, awful. What an utter embarrassment. To have some of the finest educational institutions and journalism schools in the whole world and produce this is astonishing.
Why? Because they asked tough questions? This was the first Dem debate where they were actually challenged, and I thought Obama did awful.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:23 PM   #515
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
Somebody really needs to start a 'worst gaffe' poll. There have been so many!

Nominations:

Hillary's false story of being shot at in Bosnia, as well as her nonexistent high school soccer career

Obama's preacher's comments

Obama's grandma 'typical white person'

Bill Clinton's racially sensitive remarks in SC

Geraldine Ferraro's comment that Obama was only where he is because he is black

Obama's small town 'bitter' comments

McCain stay in Iraq for 100 years

others please specify...
Obama's "punished with a baby."
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:25 PM   #516
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They asked ridiculous questions.

As a young guy in college, your critical thinking skills should have developed enough to recognize that.

But hey, let's discuss flag pins. Of all the pressing issues the country faces, it is only fitting that this was one of the first 5 questions asked. Trade policy, healthcare, environment and educational reforms are for those other suckers.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:29 PM   #517
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
They asked ridiculous questions.

As a young guy in college, your critical thinking skills should have developed enough to recognize that.

But hey, let's discuss flag pins. Of all the pressing issues the country faces, it is only fitting that this was one of the first 5 questions asked. Trade policy, healthcare, environment and educational reforms are for those other suckers.
I think the flag pin is legitimate. After his defense of not needing to wear one to prove his patriotism, I don't think it's a coincidence that one week before Pennsylvania it suddenly re-appears, at the same time that his patriotism is being slightly questioned due to Wright or his "bitter" comments.

To be honest, I didn't watch the whole thing, I was watching the White House dinner. But I did see Gibson ask hard, yes or no followup questions of both candidates, regarding the economy and taxes, for example.

I'm sure they touched on all the issues you mentioned, as well as the flag pin and other "other" stories making news.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:32 PM   #518
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Why the hell do you care who wears flag pins? What is it about Americans that makes this some kind of idiotic make it or break it issue? The woman actually asked him if he believes in the flag! If he were cheekier, he should have told her that no, he doesn't, he believes in Jesus, and so should she. That would have been about as absurd as her question was.

And you're "sure" they touched on "all the issues" I mentioned based on the fact you didn't watch it? They did NOT in fact touch on ANY of the issues I mentioned. Not a single one.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:37 PM   #519
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Why the hell do you care who wears flag pins?
Personally, I don't. Neither of these people are getting my vote, and it has nothing to do with a flag pin. But it's interesting to try to get inside Obama's mind. There must be a reason he just starting wearing one.


Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
And you're "sure" they touched on "all the issues" I mentioned based on the fact you didn't watch it? They did NOT in fact touch on ANY of the issues I mentioned. Not a single one.
Ok, fair enough. Apparently they didn't. Did you really need to hear about healthcare, though? What don't you know about both of their plans by now?

That being said, don't get me wrong- I'm all for talking about issues rather than campaign trail controversies.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:40 PM   #520
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


Personally, I don't. Neither of these people are getting my vote, and it has nothing to do with a flag pin. But it's interesting to try to get inside Obama's mind. There must be a reason he just starting wearing one.
Well again, watch the debate. He didn't "just start wearing one" - he explicitly stated that a veteran had come up to him the other day and handed a specific one to him on behalf of an organization he runs and asked him to put it on at the event. He did. He wasn't wearing it after that.

There is something to be said for getting your facts straight.
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