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Old 02-12-2014, 11:15 PM   #21
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Actually, it's more a public health term.

When assessing things like HIV, doctors do to ask patients, especially members of certain populations, if they are gay, straight, or bi. They try to determine if they have sex with men. These categories are meaningless to them. They entirely straight identify and may have families, and they don't feel closeted like a Republican politician. It's a cultural thing. In other countries, especially those where women are all burka'd up, dudes have sex with each other all the time.

So it's complicated.
Wait, is this the gay equivalent of me imagining my wife spends her time in the ladies locker room oiling up with other sexy ladies?
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:18 PM   #22
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Wait, is this the gay equivalent of me imagining my wife spends her time in the ladies locker room oiling up with other sexy ladies?



Men and women are different. I can only pretend to have all the answers.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:34 AM   #23
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This msm/wsw thing is really interesting. Wikipedia has some good basics about it.
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MSM and gay refer to different things: behaviors and social identities. MSM refers to sexual activities between men, regardless of how they identify, whereas gay can include those activities but is more broadly seen as a cultural identity. Homosexuality refers to sexual/romantic attraction between members of the same sex and may or may not include romantic relationships. Gay is a social identity and is generally the preferred social term, whereas homosexual is used in formal contexts, though the terms are not entirely interchangeable. Men who are non-heterosexual or questioning may identify with all, none, a combination of these, or one of the newer terms indicating a similar sexual, romantic, and cultural identity like bi-curious. In their assessment of the knowledge about the sexual networks and behaviors of MSM in Asia, Dowsett, Grierson and McNally concluded that the category of MSM does not correspond to a single social identity in any of the countries they studied.[4] There were no similar traits in all of the MSM population studied, other than them being males and engaging in sex with other men.
Men who have sex with men - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Women who have sex with women - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The other interesting thing about the preference for "straight acting" is that it says there is a right way for men to act: not feminine. Because anything that's not super dudely is bad. It's okay if you have sex with guys as long as you're not, you know, femmy. And maybe it's kind of the same with women--people don't really get pissed about two hot girls acting sexy together (hey, that's sexy) but they do about butchy women. That's offensive!
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:14 AM   #24
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The other interesting thing about the preference for "straight acting" is that it says there is a right way for men to act: not feminine. Because anything that's not super dudely is bad. It's okay if you have sex with guys as long as you're not, you know, femmy. And maybe it's kind of the same with women--people don't really get pissed about two hot girls acting sexy together (hey, that's sexy) but they do about butchy women. That's offensive!


at the end of the day, homophobia is misogyny.
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:20 AM   #25
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And both stems from society slowly veering off traditional stereotypes and finally starting to realise that we are too complex to be put in those boxes. It's an excruciatingly slow process, but if I compare how things are now to when I was growing up, it's getting better.
Even though I have, and always had, long hair, I've been insultingly called a guy a lot during my childhood. Yes, I was not too feminine, prefered to play outside or with legos rather than barbies and dolls and shit, and I still don't do make up and dresses. For kids it's a very easy target to pick, my stubbornness, doing martial arts and having a big mouth didn't quite help either. But it still shows that even as young as primary school, kids are already full of gender bias and certain gender roles.

I'm glad I just didn't give a fuck about being cool or whatever, I just wanted to be who I was. And I am. Yeah, so I may not be girly, I don't give a shit about girl talk with make up and clothes and shopping, I wear jeans and a shirt most of the times(with Converse, the only shoes I fit lol). I have done martial arts for 10 years so I've got more muscles than guys who dont' hit the gym regularly, does this make me any less of a female than your random ugg wearing barbie?
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:21 AM   #26
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I was listening to a podcast during my commute this morning. The topic was implementing the CDC's 2010 guidelines for treating STDs.

One of the speakers stated that STDs spread faster "in small sexual networks such as young men who have sex with men," the implication being that young gay men are more promiscuous than young heterosexuals.

This idea of homosexual promiscuity is pretty pervasive in the medical literature, but I have seen LGBT advocates bristle at the suggestion.

I have no idea whether there is epidemiological evidence to either support or refute the idea, but it seems to be treated as conventional wisdom in medical circles. (I suppose I could do a literature search; I'm sure there is probably research in this area.)

Thoughts?
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:29 AM   #27
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This idea of homosexual promiscuity is pretty pervasive in the medical literature, but I have seen LGBT advocates bristle at the suggestion.

i think male promiscuity is more the issue, not so much gay vs. straight. the group with the lowest incidence of STDs are lesbians, so it's not about homosexuality but gender. also, simply having a smaller sexual network makes it easier for STDs to spread. you can see this in smaller, rural communities in the South, and in African-American communities as well. it's also important that they speaker pointed out young men -- clearly, some youth are incredibly misinformed about the spread of STDs and effective means of prevention.

it also seems rather cruel not to point out that promiscuity comes from discrimination, the closet, and until recently, no societal incentives or tools to enable men to create stable unions with one another. i would venture a guess that your average gay man has had more sex partners than your average straight man, but that's due to gender -- it's not all that hard to find a man who will have sex with you.

lastly, given all the problems in the world, and given the startling global statistics on sexual assault, is promiscuity really such an awful thing?

certainly slowing and preventing the spread of STDs and HIV is a good thing, but is a high number of (consenting, protected) sex partners really something to get all that upset about?
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:37 AM   #28
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i think male promiscuity is more the issue, not so much gay vs. straight.
This has always sort of been my take on it, but I think very difficult to study epidemiologically.

If you gave young heterosexual men access to unlimited sex partners and sexual encounters, I'm sure their rate of promiscuity, however you define it, would be quite high.
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:39 AM   #29
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Also, this happened.

Russia enacts anti-gay adoption ban - CNN.com
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:52 AM   #30
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Mother Russia strikes again.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:56 AM   #31
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well, the focus on one man (Putin) throughout Sochi has been reminiscent of an earlier Olympic Games ...
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:17 PM   #32
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I still wonder if Putin's actions with the Dutch team were staged or not.


At the start of the olympics, he showed up at our Dutch Heineken House and shook hands with a female ice skater, Sanne van Kerkhof.

Yesterday, bunch of days later, he congratulated Ireen Wust with her gold medal by giving her a hug in the same House.


Makes me wonder if he knows those two used to be in a relationship together. Since it is fairly common knowledge here, but still. It would be incredibly ironic. Or hypocritical if he did indeed know.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:51 PM   #33
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I still wonder if Putin's actions with the Dutch team were staged or not.


At the start of the olympics, he showed up at our Dutch Heineken House and shook hands with a female ice skater, Sanne van Kerkhof.

Yesterday, bunch of days later, he congratulated Ireen Wust with her gold medal by giving her a hug in the same House.


Makes me wonder if he knows those two used to be in a relationship together. Since it is fairly common knowledge here, but still. It would be incredibly ironic. Or hypocritical if he did indeed know.


hard to say -- maybe it's just because the Dutch WIN ALL THE SPEEDSKATING MEDALS.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:22 PM   #34
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2...omination.html
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:41 PM   #35
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The Gay Thread

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I've never heard of this before, but I'm just wondering, honestly, what makes it internal homophobia and not just a preference? Is it the phrase itself? Such as like when Kanye copped a lot of shit for the "light-skinned girls" line?

I'm sure not every gay man wants to be with a flamboyant person. Which is not to say that every gay man is flamboyant, which is why I can kind of understand making the distinction in a personals ad.

So yeah, I think my question is, is it the taste that's offensive, or the phrase?
It depends upon how you approach it. When a gay guy describes himself as "straight acting" it implies there's something wrong with being gay or the way gay people act so much to a point where they feel the necessity to "act" a certain way. And lots of gay guys feel the necessity to describe themselves as "straight acting" so much as to say "I'm not like them."

Of course it gets reworded a lot. Perhaps one doesn't like a stereotype. That's totally okay. Nobody said "you have to be attracted to everything, gay male." It really depends upon your choice of words though. Often the choice of words is "straight acting" though, and that's absolutely internalized homophobia.

E:And now I see Irvine said pretty much the exact same thing.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:52 PM   #36
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Homophobia is misogyny, in that straight men are afraid of being treated by other men the way that they treat women.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:01 PM   #37
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It's actually a big relief for me to hear other people say this, like maybe the crazy isn't all in my head.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:35 PM   #38
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I dig this thread--people make sense here.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:36 PM   #39
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Kidding!

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It's actually a big relief for me to hear other people say this, like maybe the crazy isn't all in my head.
Well, let's not jump to conclusions.





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Old 02-13-2014, 03:57 PM   #40
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I knew I was taking a risk there.
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