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Old 11-05-2010, 06:32 AM   #321
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I love the Quorn grounds. Great in dishes where you would use ground beef or turkey such as chili, spaghetti sauce, soups, etc.
I haven't tried their ground meat substitute yet. I will.
I've used Morningstar Farm's and Smart Food's though--both pretty good. I love it in spaghetti sauce.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:11 PM   #322
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I've got a friend on facebook (who I'm quickly coming to despise) that constantly spams with vegetarian propaganda. His latest go to argument is that humans are truly herbivores and when we eat meat, we're going against what nature intends. I really want to punch him in his face
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Old 11-05-2010, 04:18 PM   #323
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^ I don't know if there's any scientific discipline--maybe even academic discipline, period--more bastardized than nutrition by people who think they're experts, based on having read one book by some underqualified expert or another zealously promoting his preferred way of eating--vegan, Paleo, raw, Atkins, whatever. I like browsing cooking blogs and forums occasionally, but I avoid their "nutrition" subforums like the plague (unless I'm looking for lols), because they're full of people who couldn't manage a basic explanation of how bruises form or toenails grow, pontificating about how those devious Food Police have been lying all along about ____ being bad for you, as proven by this 1949 study on Pipsqueak Islanders by Dr. Nobody--they ate it all the time yet had the BEST serum albumin, mean corpuscular volume, and glycated hemoglobin levels he'd ever seen, blah blah blah. They'll have boatloads of factoids memorized, and can spit them up on cue when they spot the right trigger words, but you can tell they don't actually understand anything they're saying, and it'd be total deer-in-the-headlights time if an actual nutritionist joined the discussion and asked them to elaborate on something.
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:04 PM   #324
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I've got a friend on facebook (who I'm quickly coming to despise) that constantly spams with vegetarian propaganda. His latest go to argument is that humans are truly herbivores and when we eat meat, we're going against what nature intends. I really want to punch him in his face
I understand that vegetarians can be a self-righteous bunch, as I've been one for quite some time. But I also cannot tell you how many times I've heard the same type of "natural" argument used against me - and without provocation, I might add - as in "it is biologically natural for humans to eat meat." The irony there is that, unless those people are eating meat from a local farm, there is probably nothing "natural" about what they are consuming.

My point here, I suppose, is that meat-eaters can be just as defensive and self-righteous about their diet as can vegetarians. Trust me, I've seen it more times than I care to relate.
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:20 PM   #325
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No doubt. I actually hate telling people I'm vegetarian because it's tiring to have to tell them why. Either that or "oh, you're one of them". I guess the difference being that the self righteous vegetarians are actively trying to convert people, while the self righteous meat eaters are more reactionary.
My problem with my facebook friend's point isn't his use of the 'natural' arguement, but rather his blatant use of misinformation and outright lying to try and convert people. when you have to lie to support your cause, you've sort of lost your way
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:42 PM   #326
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You raise a great point about the proselytizing. It's strictly unnecessary on both sides. I don't try to convert anybody, nor do I talk about my reasons unless I am directly asked. Even then, I usually dodge the question for the same reasons that you mentioned.

I do have one story worth sharing about people inquiring about my reasons. I met a girl at a restaurant, and she offered me a chicken wing. I refused, and she asked me why. When I told her that I was a vegetarian, she responded with the following: "Doesn't it say in the Bible that God put animals here for us to use?"

It was the worst first impression of my entire life.
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:47 PM   #327
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I do have one story worth sharing about people inquiring about my reasons. I met a girl at a restaurant, and she offered me a chicken wing. I refused, and she asked me why. When I told her that I was a vegetarian, she responded with the following: "Doesn't it say in the Bible that God put animals here for us to use?"

It was the worst first impression of my entire life.
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:50 PM   #328
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hahaha

No matter how hot that girl was, I would no longer be able to look at her the same way
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Old 11-05-2010, 06:16 PM   #329
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You raise a great point about the proselytizing. It's strictly unnecessary on both sides. I don't try to convert anybody, nor do I talk about my reasons unless I am directly asked. Even then, I usually dodge the question for the same reasons that you mentioned.
Sounds like the best way to handle it. Vegetarian or meat-eater, I do not care, whatever tastes good to you. Just respect each other's choices.

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I do have one story worth sharing about people inquiring about my reasons. I met a girl at a restaurant, and she offered me a chicken wing. I refused, and she asked me why. When I told her that I was a vegetarian, she responded with the following: "Doesn't it say in the Bible that God put animals here for us to use?"

It was the worst first impression of my entire life.
Oh, no . I'm sorry!

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Old 11-05-2010, 06:56 PM   #330
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Good point Finance Guy.

People my age drank whole milk as children, had real butter on their toast and then played outside. None of my friends or I were obese. Actually, we were quite skinny. Obesity at that time, was extremely rare for children and was more often due to medical problems, than lifestyle.

P.S. Iron Horse, I don't find your threads or post offensive. I enjoy reading everyone's point of view. It helps me to learn more about these topics.

Thanks to Finance Guy and to you for your comments.
And if I may kindly say, to all comments on this thread.


A Stor, to me you nailed the issue with your comment about back in day.

I teach in the same public middle that I attended as a student years ago.
Like you said, back then we were drinking whole milk, butter on our toast, drinking small cokes(sweetened with cane sugar) and walking to school, riding bicycles to school, and playing outside.

I remember only a few kids who were obese. We were skinny.

Today, many of my student are obese. I would guess that almost half of them are overweight.

What do they tell me they do after school?

They are either watching TV or online.
Often until very late in the evening.

When I drive through the neighborhood today, it's rare to see kids outside playing.

What are they eating at school?
My best description is no salt, low-fat, mechanically processed junk food.

For example: low-fat chocolate milk sweetened with high fructose corn syrup.

Lunch is only 28 minutes long and student who choose to eat outside must remain seated. No outside basketball games, no running on the track field, no physical activity.

The elementary schools, in our district, have recess time down to ten or fifteen minutes.
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Old 11-05-2010, 07:09 PM   #331
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I used to have a half-hour recess and about forty minutes of lunch time in the playground after a twenty minute eating portion of lunch.

This was in the early 90s in elementary school.

Pretty fucking sad the way things have gone. The fact is that suburban life has become the 15-foot walk to one's car, and the walk form the parking lot to the office. For most people, that ten-ish minutes of walking they get every weekday is the only physical activity they get besides masturbating and falling asleep on the couch after eating a pizza and watching The Daily Show.
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Old 11-05-2010, 08:03 PM   #332
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Those arguments, and intents on proselytizing, are so stupid. My brother sent me a link recently taken by some PETA activists about a chicken farm that produces one of the biggest German meat manufacturers. It basically showed the real conditions for those chickens and then had snippets of some promotional video of the same company saying how well they are treating animals.
At the end of the video, it said something along the lines of only being vegan is the real way you can do it right.
That's all so stupid. If you want to change something, don't offer people to do the complete opposite from what they are used to. Ie., don't tell them to radically change their lifes. It's simply not going to work. Neither is trying to make them feel bad about how the live. Guilt is the worst driving factor ever. Such efforts lead to ignorance and resignation. Rather, tell them what they can do, without going completely out of their ways, to make a change to how things are going.
Vegetarians who are attacking you for eating meat and tell you what terrible kind of person you are, are the last to make you reconsider your habits, much more they lead people to say "Arrgh, those vegeterrorists! "
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Old 11-05-2010, 08:33 PM   #333
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Vegetarians who are attacking you for eating meat and tell you what terrible kind of person you are, are the last to make you reconsider your habits, much more they lead people to say "Arrgh, those vegeterrorists! "
This

I keep telling the guy I was referencing, that if he wants to have anyone listen to what he's saying, learn some social skills. The way he's doing it now, he's actually causing more harm than good. It's kind of funny to read the responses to the stuff he posts. A lot of them are along the lines of "just because of this post, I'm going to eat an extra steak tonight" lol
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Old 11-05-2010, 08:41 PM   #334
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Vegetarian or meat-eater, I do not care, whatever tastes good to you. Just respect each other's choices.
THIS. I have been a vegetarian for two years. I don't try to "convert" anyone, and I don't think less of people who eat meat. But those who do should respect the fact that I don't. I've had so many people wave a piece a meat in my face and laugh. Well, it's not funny to me.
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Old 11-06-2010, 08:06 AM   #335
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THIS. I have been a vegetarian for two years. I don't try to "convert" anyone, and I don't think less of people who eat meat. But those who do should respect the fact that I don't. I've had so many people wave a piece a meat in my face and laugh. Well, it's not funny to me.
Yeah, that's pretty childish. I'd be irritated, too. Especially since you're not doing immature stuff like that to them.

I'd love for someone out there to name a time when being preachy on an issue has ever helped anything? If people are interested in changing their ways, they'll let you know. You'll never get anywhere trying to force people, and I want to be amongst people who are sincere in their beliefs, who aren't believing/supporting something because they feel they HAVE to.

Angela
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:48 AM   #336
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THIS. I have been a vegetarian for two years. I don't try to "convert" anyone, and I don't think less of people who eat meat. But those who do should respect the fact that I don't. I've had so many people wave a piece a meat in my face and laugh. Well, it's not funny to me.
I agree with Angela. That is very childish. Many people are on special diets. Some by choice, others because of medical reasons. I can't eat pasta or Italian foods. It turns right into sugar for me and I am at a high risk for Type 2 Diabetes due to a diabetic pregnancy and hereditary factors. My weight isn't one of them because it is normal for me.

I went to a buffet style resturant and after I ate what was good for me. I decided to have a small slice of cake. A woman looked at my plate and said "geez, what is wrong with you? A bigger piece won't make you fat." I just smiled and walked away. I didn't own her an explanation that two years ago I was borderline Type 2 Diabetes. I was able to bring the blood sugar down into the normal range without meds by healthy eating and exercise.

People should stop and think before they make rude comments to others. Many diabetics are thin or of a normal weight.
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:19 AM   #337
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Iron Horse, do children in elementary school still have PE class? We did just about everyday and also recess. I know what you mean about not seeing kids playing outside. The ones who still ride their bikes, roller skate and etc. are skinny kids. I never planted my son in front of the TV when he was little. I took him outdoors and played with him. Running, soccer, playing catch, etc.

I see lots of morbidly obese young adults. And I'm not talking about muscular weight. I know athletes weigh more than the general population. But, these young ones are at very unhealty weights at least 100 lbs. or more than what is considered to be normal.

Thanks for the tip about soda. No wonder it doesn't taste as good as it did back in the day. I never drink it anymore.

I asked my doctor about Type 2 Diabetes with children. I told him. I had never heard of it until recently. He told me that when I was growing up, only Type 1 was found in children. Never Type 2 or high blood pressure either. These are middle age diseases and the later in life you get them. It is easier to control it. Especially for Type 2. Fifty year olds can usually bring their sugar levels back into the normal range with some dietary changes. Meds aren't always needed. I didn't need them. But, if you develope Type 2 at age 17. It's that many more years you have it and it does more damage to your body.
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:30 AM   #338
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I used to have a half-hour recess and about forty minutes of lunch time in the playground after a twenty minute eating portion of lunch.

This was in the early 90s in elementary school.

Pretty fucking sad the way things have gone. The fact is that suburban life has become the 15-foot walk to one's car, and the walk form the parking lot to the office. For most people, that ten-ish minutes of walking they get every weekday is the only physical activity they get besides masturbating and falling asleep on the couch after eating a pizza and watching The Daily Show.
Your post is funny and true. I ate a slice of pizza, once in a while. When I was growing up. Then, it was back outside to play. Pizza was smaller than it is now. Today, they are huge!
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:30 AM   #339
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that was a fucking dumb movie. i didn't need to watch a 90 minute doco to know that you would become very ill if you ate nothing but maccas for breakfast, lunch and tea for a month. who eats it that often? i'd be willing to bet no one.

not working for me!
Agreed. I don't see any problems in eating fastfood once or twice a month.
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:41 AM   #340
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At the end of the day, no one's freedom of choice has been violated. End of story.
Unless you count the choice to sell toys together with unhealthy food.

People may find this a good idea (I don't really care one way or the other) but this is probably not going to solve the obesity problem.

And whatever happened to the responsibility of the parents?
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