NFL 2010 Part Two (Shotgun) 6 - J. Cutler sacked at CHI 22 for -9 yards

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Hewson said:
A. Special Teams are part of the game, you sound like Kordell Stewart trying to argue that the Dolphins were the better team.

2. The fact that the Dolphins gained more yards than the Pats is directly attributed to the fact that the Pats' scored 3 times without the offense touching the ball, thus putting the Dolphins' offense right back on the field and the Pats' offense not getting a drive.

Third. If one were to buy your argument that the 21 points the Pats put up on special teams and defense don't count as to who played better, and also give the Dolphins the 3 points from the blocked FG, the final score would have been Pats 20, Dolphins 17.

Miami in no way outplayed NE Monday night. You could argue that they outplayed them in the 1st quarter, but thats pretty much it...and there's a reason why games are 4 quarters.
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B. I never said they werent. Offensively and defensively the Patriots were either matched or outmatched.

12. That's a weak argument considering if you watched the first half and you watched Brady with the ball, they werent going very far (other than running the ball a ton). Not saying that Brady and the Pats offense wouldn't have gotten better, but you cant just assume things. We never got to see the game play out like that, unfortunately.

XVI. The game would've unfolded in a completely different direction. It was a terrible game. Why do you think Henne was throwing late interceptions? He was making high pressure, desperation passes out of frustration. Again, you cant just assume that when you remove the poor special teams play, the other points just remain. There's a reason Tyler Thigpen was in the game.

Miami certainly outplayed NE, through the first half. If you actually watched the game, it pretty much ended with the start of the second half... Miami was slightly better offensively and defensively. They paid the price for having poor special teams.

I'm not claiming that the Dolphins should have won. I know Special Teams are very important. But Special Teams is the sole reason the Patriots won. Had the Dolphins been able to play a regular game of Special Teams... it would've been a completely different game. One that we cant predict, because we never got to see it happen. It was a disastar on the Dolphins end.

Oy you're like my roomate (Pats fan), insistant that even with Moss gone the Patriot reciever core is still better than the Dolphins. He even went so far as to claim Hernandez, Gronkowsky, Tate, and Woodhead were all extremely reliable and dependable recievers. To which point I said I cant have a real conversation with you if you think that 4 first year players are reliable and dependable.
 
phanan said:
There's no way you can say that Henne played a better game than Brady when he throws three interceptions. I understand your point that he was moving the Dolphins down the field more, but you can't simply take interceptions out of the equation. Those INTs were killers, as much as the special team play was.

As for Moss, it sounds like just a 3rd round pick because the Vikes can't come to an agreement on a longer deal, which is understandable, but from a Patriots point of view, ridiculous. Simply having Moss on the field makes a huge difference; it doesn't matter if he only has 9 catches so far this year. His mere presence opens up the field to Welker and the others. Belichick is taking a major leap of faith in the offense if this goes through. The question is, will it be more like the Patriots of '01-'04 with no-name receivers that got the job done, or more like '06 when Brady carried the whole team on his back through the whole season, despite having players like Caldwell and Gabriel.

I have my doubts.
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Fair enough, I guess going so far as to say Henne played a better game wasnt all that fair (although I really only think 2 of those interceptions were actually killers, the third was irrelevant at that point), but I guess the point I was trying to make was the normal Tom Brady that we all know of who is driving his team and putting up 250+ yds was only able to put up 150 yards (and was passing after the game had already blown out) and had a TD directly related to a punt block turnover. He wasnt going anywhere.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
Fair enough, I guess going so far as to say Henne played a better game wasnt all that fair (although I really only think 2 of those interceptions were actually killers, the third was irrelevant at that point), but I guess the point I was trying to make was the normal Tom Brady that we all know of who is driving his team and putting up 250+ yds was only able to put up 150 yards (and was passing after the game had already blown out) and had a TD directly related to a punt block turnover. He wasnt going anywhere.
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First, Brady threw one pass in the fourth quarter, a completion for 6 yards. The pass before that was the one that put the Patriots up by two scores, so your assertion that Brady piled up yards in garbage time is false.

Second, 6.4 yards a pop passing with no turnovers is nothing to sneeze at.

Third, you can't dismiss Henne's garbage-time interception and keep his garbage-time yards simultaneously. Henne racked up 51 passing yards after the Patriots went ahead by three scores. Coincidentally, that's how far his third interception was returned.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
B.

Oy you're like my roomate (Pats fan), insistant that even with Moss gone the Patriot reciever core is still better than the Dolphins. He even went so far as to claim Hernandez, Gronkowsky, Tate, and Woodhead were all extremely reliable and dependable recievers. To which point I said I cant have a real conversation with you if you think that 4 first year players are reliable and dependable.
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I think unloading Moss was a horrible move from a basic X and O standpoint(apparently the reason for it was due to off the field stuff, locker room disruption etc), and Marshall alone makes the Dolphin corps currently better assuming he has his head on straight (not always the case in Denver).
I think Hernandez and Gronkowski have played very well thus far, but we're 4 games into their rookie seasons, Canton ain't calling just yet.
Tate looks great returning kicks, has yet to do jack as a wideout.
The Pats receiving corps currently is Wes Welker and a bag of balls.
 
speedracer said:
First, Brady threw one pass in the fourth quarter, a completion for 6 yards. The pass before that was the one that put the Patriots up by two scores, so your assertion that Brady piled up yards in garbage time is false.

Second, 6.4 yards a pop passing with no turnovers is nothing to sneeze at.

Third, you can't dismiss Henne's garbage-time interception and keep his garbage-time yards simultaneously. Henne racked up 51 passing yards after the Patriots went ahead by three scores. Coincidentally, that's how far his third interception was returned.
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I never asserted that Brady was piling up in garbage time. All of the momentum was in the hands of the Patriots after 2 special team TDs back to back. So yeah, it wasnt blown out yet, but it was about to be. None the less, when the pressure was on Brady, he wasn't coming out with anything. He was able to pick on a deflated team.

His third interception can easily be dismissed. It was out of pure desperation in a game that was already over.
 
Green Bay just lost Nick Barnett for the season. I might be less concerned if I wasn't certain that Ted Thompson was going to do absolutely nothing about it. We'll probably see Mason Crosby covering Chris Cooley this Sunday.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
I never asserted that Brady was piling up in garbage time. All of the momentum was in the hands of the Patriots after 2 special team TDs back to back. So yeah, it wasnt blown out yet, but it was about to be. None the less, when the pressure was on Brady, he wasn't coming out with anything. He was able to pick on a deflated team.

His third interception can easily be dismissed. It was out of pure desperation in a game that was already over.
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picard-facepalm.jpg
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
Haha! Okay so maybe I did, but it was unintentional. I was getting at the fact that Brady only started passing well once his team was starting to take a shit on the Phins and the momentum heavily swayed towards the Pats favor.
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Apparently it's acceptable for a NFL defense to feel psychologically crushed when they're down 6 points in the third quarter.

The first Patriots offensive TD in the third quarter came from 15 yards out when they were up 6. Not easy for the D, but on average the defense should be expected to keep the O out of the end zone 50% of the time.

The second Patriots offensive TD came after the Dolphins scored to pull back within 6, and that drive started from 78 yards out. Absolutely no excuses for the Dolphins D here.
 
speedracer said:
Apparently it's acceptable for a NFL defense to feel psychologically crushed when they're down 6 points in the third quarter.

The first Patriots offensive TD in the third quarter came from 15 yards out when they were up 6. Not easy for the D, but on average the defense should be expected to keep the O out of the end zone 50% of the time.

The second Patriots offensive TD came after the Dolphins scored to pull back within 6, and that drive started from 78 yards out. Absolutely no excuses for the Dolphins D here.
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Starting the second half, after having a good first half, and then having a kick returned on you is very, very deflating.

Then having a punt blocked leading to another TD? Extremely deflating.

Then, you answer, try to bring yourself back into the game, and then your kick gets blocked for a TD?

It's not the score. Special teams failure is easily the most deflating feeling. It's the easiest way to score one a mistake is made. They worked that hard to have a close game, and in one single play all of that was erased. 3 times. 1 time is enough. 2 times is enough. 3 times is more than enough to ruin the psyche of a team.

The first Patriots TD was a direct result of the blocked punt. After a 106 yd special teams failure, a second special teams failure is definitely enough to deflate a special teams. The second TD was Brady's TD. Say what you'd like, but a big momentum shift like that is enough to get Brady rolling.
 
I don't think it's quite that bad (isn't "losing season" technically under .500?). And I think they did win at least one NFL Championship prior to the AFL-NFL merger.
 
Packers season is over. Finley just got carted off the field.

oh, and now Ryan Pickett too.

there's always next year!
 
Wonder if ouy resident Pfilly pfan is watching the Skins right now. McNabb lost 20 yards when a shotgun snap went through his hands and just overshot a wide-open receiver by about 10 yards.
 
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