LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Who da best 1-2 punch? Lebron-Davis?
Who da best 1-2 punch? Lebron-Davis?
all time? no, i do not in any way put MJ/Scottie as #1. MJ was so much better than Scottie. That wasn't a 1A and 1B, it was a 1A and a 2. Scottie was a great fit next to jordan. He was a complimentary player but not an alpha. History has elevated his stature. I can't think of anyone outside of Chicago who watched all those Bulls battles with the Knicks, Jazz, Sonics, Pacers, Pistons, Suns, Blazers, etc. who ever said "ya know who's the second best player on the court? Scottie." I'll fight anyone to the grave on this one. I'll put 'em on the list by default, but they're on the list because of one player and honestly that's not meant as a slight at Scottie - he was very good, a hall of famer - but some people try and put him in the top 20 of all time and that's just obscene.
Ahhhh one and a half.
Again just shows how dominant Shaq was. It's crazy how some players get elevated as time goes on (Scottie) and some get looked over (Shaq).
Magic and Kareem are two of the top ten players in NBA history, maybe two of the top five. I would think they have to be the best duo ever.
It probably has a lot to do with how Shaq was such a physical monster. He’s otherwise perceived as a giant slab of meat, dumb hulk smash untalented brute kinda ball. Not the classical baller finesse that every kid aspired to have from Kobe. For the record I don’t think he was just a dumb brute, but that’s maybe sort of the perception.
Also probably a lot to do with his general lack of public ego. It was never really ‘Shaq’s team’ wherever he went. Just the team Shaq was on. Think about it.. Nash’s Phoenix, Wade/Riley’s Heat, Kobe’s Lakers, and that time he was in Kazaam.
Or maybe that’s just it... too young for Space Jam, not young enough to be part of LeBron James’ sad attempt at a Space Jam 2. No place in history for Shaq.
the sneaky winner of yesterday's craziness?
the indiana pacers.
since the 2000s it's shaq and kobe and it isn't really close. what every person under the age of 25 forgets is that kobe was inarguably the 2nd best player of that duo while they were together.
I'd put KD and Steph second. Lebron & Wade third (and it's not because of lebron). Lebron & AD will push past Lebron/Wade if they can win again this year and push KD/Steph for 2nd.
all time? no, i do not in any way put MJ/Scottie as #1. MJ was so much better than Scottie. That wasn't a 1A and 1B, it was a 1A and a 2. Scottie was a great fit next to jordan. He was a complimentary player but not an alpha. History has elevated his stature. I can't think of anyone outside of Chicago who watched all those Bulls battles with the Knicks, Jazz, Sonics, Pacers, Pistons, Suns, Blazers, etc. who ever said "ya know who's the second best player on the court? Scottie." I'll fight anyone to the grave on this one. I'll put 'em on the list by default, but they're on the list because of one player and honestly that's not meant as a slight at Scottie - he was very good, a hall of famer - but some people try and put him in the top 20 of all time and that's just obscene.
Kareem/Magic, Bird/McHale, Kareem/Oscar, Stockton/Malone, West/Baylor, Shaq/Kobe, KD/Steph, Lebron/Wade, Lebron/AD, and yea MJ/Scottie.
Jerry West and Elgin Baylor would probably be #1 if they didn't have to go through the Celtics every year - but their lack of a title together holds them down.
I'd probably say Oscar & Kareem/Alcindor. They were a dominant presence in their short time together. If we need to include longevity than I would probably pivot to Shaq and Kobe.
Bron and Wade could have been up there if Bron had gotten there a little bit earlier. Wade was still very good when lebron arrived, but he wasn't his best and got worse as their time went on. With lebron and AD it could be the opposite... but, ya know, we'll see how long his magic stuff lasts.
If KD didn't tear his Achilles and had the third title, i'd probably have to slide KD/Steph up as well - but they clearly had quite a bit of help on that roster.
so yea - short term? Kareem and Robertson in their prime is tough to beat. If you want to give weight for doing it over a long period? Shaq and Kobe.
I can respect the argument that a big two who was actually a big three (or big four) shouldn't be counted if you can respect my argument that MJ/Scottie shouldn't be counted because big twos that are actually a big one shouldn't countI just have a bit of an issue with taking two people out of a trio and calling it a duo. Magic/Kareem had Worthy(from 82 onwards anyway), Bird/McHale had Parish, LeBron/Wade had Bosh, even Durant/Steph had Klay.
On the other hand, the next best player Kobe/Shaq had for any of their titles was Glen Rice in 2000, Kareem/Oscar didn't have a clear #3(I don't think), and MJ/Scottie's next best were Grant/Rodman. That ought to be taken into consideration IMO. Anyway, like I said, I'm completely biased, but I'll stand by MJ/Scottie; what other duo won six rings without a third star?
Some single-season duos to think about...Dr. J and Moses in 83, West and Wilt in 72(and they got to the finals again in 73), Hakeem and Drexler in 95.
Payton/Kemp never won anything, but they were pretty exciting to watch. Shaq/Penny could've been special if Shaq had stayed and Penny's knees hadn't fallen apart.
For the 1993-94 season, he was 5th in the NBA in Defensive BPM, 5th in VORP, 9th in win-shares, and 9th in win-shares per 48 minutes. Putting it generously, he was a borderline top 5 player in the NBA that season. How can someone whose best career year is arguably not even top 5 in the league*that season*be the 21st best player in the history of the league?
I turn to some random blogger in response to Pippen being raked 21st of all time on ESPN's most recent list.
Scottie was good. Scottie was also not a top 5 player in the league when he played, and it's debatable if he was top 10 at any point.
Just in the mid to late 90s... in no particular order
Jordan
Olajuwon
Ewing
Robinson
Malone
Kemp
Payton
Miller
Drexler
Stockton
Barkley
Shaq
I'm leaving out guys like Penny, Grant Hill and Alonzo Mourning on the tail end and Dumars, Dominique, Magic, Isiah at the start.
Yet somehow ESPN had the balls to rate him 21st all time? GTFO.
Ok but which three bulls did you pick in NBA Hangtime for N64? Gotta take one of Kukoc, Longley, or Kerr.
Another tough season for the resident haters:
The Lakers’ New Beginnings Are Even Better Than Their Championship Finish
Once again, the silence here is deafening; you'd think we were in the off-season still.
Another tough season for the resident haters:
The Lakers’ New Beginnings Are Even Better Than Their Championship Finish
Once again, the silence here is deafening; you'd think we were in the off-season still.