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I've given it a few spins. It's an improvement over the last one, but they're on the fumes of the glory days, not legitimately back on that level.

I'd still take Reflektor over it.
 
Power dynamics are always a problem - especially in the band-on-fans sense. But age gap… 18 year olds are certainly a gray area but we in fact draw the line at 18 because of that challenging gray area. If someone is saying 34 on 21 is “age inappropriate” oh boy, not sure that’s how I’d want my accusation to be publicized.
 
Win has been an asshole forever and he has a horrible reputation with women. The guy can barely hold a normal conversation with a fan without them leaving it feeling put off, so I'm not surprised that he's struggled to navigate the imbalanced power dynamics of sexual interactions with young female fans.
 
DeVaul said:
I’d take a ticket refund
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Unfortunately, my ticket is nonrefundable and nontransferable—have to show up with ID at Will Call to claim it, a risk I fully understood. Obviously I am not going. Maybe they'll cancel the tour like Ryan Adams did. I don't know why I even bought the damn thing. Have not liked their recent output but the three shows I'd seen early on were fantastic, and I was excited about live music again when I bought it. I'm still not over allegations about Sigur Rós's Orri, but they have managed to keep going without him. But AF are likely done.
 
gump said:
I can't believe they are going ahead with the tour. What a mess.
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And that Dublin received them last night with "rapturous applause" according to one headline, and that they opened with Wake Up and left the stage to Stand By Me. A lot of fans were conflicted about going, many seemed not to know about the allegations or heard something vague about them at the last minute. I understand that canceling would be really hard on the other band members and especially the road crew, but it's disturbing to imagine actually celebrating Win right now. People are understandably weary about everything in the world, but I hope this isn't a backlash against women finally being able to come forward and be heard. I need more info before I can be a fan again, and even then...idk.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...sexual-misconduct-against-frontman-win-butler
 
If things went as you’d have hoped and the article wasn’t published before a proper investigation and fact gathering… then yes I’d have to think they’re related. Timing is pretty wow otherwise.
 
joyfulgirl said:
And that Dublin received them last night with "rapturous applause" according to one headline, and that they opened with Wake Up and left the stage to Stand By Me. A lot of fans were conflicted about going, many seemed not to know about the allegations or heard something vague about them at the last minute. I understand that canceling would be really hard on the other band members and especially the road crew, but it's disturbing to imagine actually celebrating Win right now. People are understandably weary about everything in the world, but I hope this isn't a backlash against women finally being able to come forward and be heard. I need more info before I can be a fan again, and even then...idk.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...sexual-misconduct-against-frontman-win-butler
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I actually have a ton more respect for how Dance Gavin Dance handled a similar situation with their singer. They basically made him go get rehab/counseling and still toured but with another member performing lead vocals. The band hasn't announced if Tillian is coming back yet.
 
i've told myself that i'm not going to be deleting their music off my phone and/or stop listening to them because a music blog with zero history of investigative reporting came out with a story saying that Win is a creep. but at the same time? i haven't listened to anything of theirs since the news has come out - possibly subconsciously.

i've also stopped looking at picking up tickets for when they come to DC in October and won't be giving them a cent until more comes out about this, because some of what was in that article is clearly troubling - specifically the one person who says he touched her without consent.

sad situation - will wait and see what comes out. this is the first time something like this has happened with a band that i actually like, and i really hope they have a better response than what they've stated so far.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
i've told myself that i'm not going to be deleting their music off my phone and/or stop listening to them because a music blog with zero history of investigative reporting came out with a story saying that Win is a creep. but at the same time? i haven't listened to anything of theirs since the news has come out - possibly subconsciously.

i've also stopped looking at picking up tickets for when they come to DC in October and won't be giving them a cent until more comes out about this, because some of what was in that article is clearly troubling - specifically the one person who says he touched her without consent.

sad situation - will wait and see what comes out. this is the first time something like this has happened with a band that i actually like, and i really hope they have a better response than what they've stated so far.
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I can’t think of a better summary of how I feel. They’re on hold for me. I was a bit confused by the actual report (as mentioned before about the “age inappropriateness”). I want a more concrete presentation of facts before I move on.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
i've told myself that i'm not going to be deleting their music off my phone and/or stop listening to them because a music blog with zero history of investigative reporting came out with a story saying that Win is a creep. but at the same time? i haven't listened to anything of theirs since the news has come out - possibly subconsciously.

i've also stopped looking at picking up tickets for when they come to DC in October and won't be giving them a cent until more comes out about this, because some of what was in that article is clearly troubling - specifically the one person who says he touched her without consent.

sad situation - will wait and see what comes out. this is the first time something like this has happened with a band that i actually like, and i really hope they have a better response than what they've stated so far.
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Sucks when it happens to one of your favorite bands. I've been struggling with this with DGD for months, barely listened to them and haven't heard a lick of their new album.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
I can’t think of a better summary of how I feel. They’re on hold for me. I was a bit confused by the actual report (as mentioned before about the “age inappropriateness”). I want a more concrete presentation of facts before I move on.
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Yea it's a poorly written article, probably because Pitchfork isn't typically the venue for this kind of story. Rolling Stone has experience with this kind of thing before. I wonder if they also had this scoop and passed because some of the info is a little thin and details changed after basic questioning.

If it were merely "Win contacted 18-22 year old fans on Instagram and carried on consensual sexual activities with them" ? Well, okay - sure, guy might be a creep but there's nothing legally or morally wrong per se.

The instance of the person who says he touched her without consent is what's keeping me from dismissing it out of hand - even though that story also changed it's details when pressed on questioning. And his behavior after the article has come out doesn't make me think it isn't true. I don't fault them for continuing to tour if they all feel he's being falsely accused, but the unexpected walk through the arena floor before the show? That's like he's flaunting that he got away with something.

I hope more comes, one way or the other.
 
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mikal said:
I actually have a ton more respect for how Dance Gavin Dance handled a similar situation with their singer. They basically made him go get rehab/counseling and still toured but with another member performing lead vocals. The band hasn't announced if Tillian is coming back yet.
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That's great :up:

LuckyNumber7 said:
I can’t think of a better summary of how I feel. They’re on hold for me. I was a bit confused by the actual report (as mentioned before about the “age inappropriateness”). I want a more concrete presentation of facts before I move on.
Click to expand...

Headache in a Suitcase said:
Yea it's a poorly written article, probably because Pitchfork isn't typically the venue for this kind of story. Rolling Stone has experience with this kind of thing before. I wonder if they also had this scoop and passed because some of the info is a little thin and details changed after basic questioning.

If it were merely "Win contacted 18-22 year old fans on Instagram and carried on consensual sexual activities with them" ? Well, okay - sure, guy might be a creep but there's nothing legally or morally wrong per se.
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I find this point of view really strange, and a little driven by anti-Pitchfork attitude. The article was incredibly in-depth and extremely well-researched. It would have taken months. Accounts corroborated by friends and family. Images seen. The accounts from the victims are quite detailed, and I don't see anything in them that makes them so dismissable when Win's remarks in return are a bit defensive and confusing. We know the statistics on false reports. At best, Win's behaviour is gross as fuck and deserves condemnation, and though I don't think cancellation is the best method here (as Feist alludes to in her excellent statement) neither is his simplistic "simply untrue" statement. If you are really sorry, and really committed to gender equality and making women feel safe, it's a bit more grey than that.
 
cobl04 said:
That's great :up:











I find this point of view really strange, and a little driven by anti-Pitchfork attitude. The article was incredibly in-depth and extremely well-researched. It would have taken months. Accounts corroborated by friends and family. Images seen. The accounts from the victims are quite detailed, and I don't see anything in them that makes them so dismissable when Win's remarks in return are a bit defensive and confusing. We know the statistics on false reports. At best, Win's behaviour is gross as fuck and deserves condemnation, and though I don't think cancellation is the best method here (as Feist alludes to in her excellent statement) neither is his simplistic "simply untrue" statement. If you are really sorry, and really committed to gender equality and making women feel safe, it's a bit more grey than that.
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I actually realize the article I read was not the Pitchfork article but the Win Butler response article that cited the Pitchfork article. So I haven’t read it yet.

Though I think Pitchfork hate is well deserved - please don’t dig up this conversation again, since the last time it went down it was just another gang of a few of you who all seemingly disagree with each other but agree that my dismissal of their shitty album rating system is just me being upset about how they wrote about bands I like and in fact it is I who thinks I’m better than proper art critics (yeah I’m still bitter about that one).

Anyways, still need to read the article.
 
I’m quite happy to not have that discussion ever again, and it’s totally fair if you don’t like the site, I just think credit needs to be given when due, and when you see the article you’ll see it’s quite detailed and thorough (and that we shouldn’t dismiss the the victims’ stories because we don’t like the site)
 
Still coming down from a phenomenal show in Minneapolis last night. Lots of I haven't seen the band since they toured The Suburbs- I was amazed on how great Reflector, Everything Now(song) and the new album translated live.

Unconditional (Lookout Kid) packed a lot more energy than the studio cut, Rabbit Hole was the biggest surprise as how great it sounded and The Lightning was just awesome. 10/10 show!
 
ImOuttaControl said:
Still coming down from a phenomenal show in Minneapolis last night. Lots of I haven't seen the band since they toured The Suburbs- I was amazed on how great Reflector, Everything Now(song) and the new album translated live.

Unconditional (Lookout Kid) packed a lot more energy than the studio cut, Rabbit Hole was the biggest surprise as how great it sounded and The Lightning was just awesome. 10/10 show!
Click to expand...

Who fucking cares
 
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