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Old 03-07-2017, 04:56 PM   #21
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On the other end of the "this is bullshit" spectrum, consider how much work goes into employers setting up all the requirements. We changed our eligibility (it's still more generous than ACA called for, but we had to change the timing of it) - that was huge. Don't even get me fucking started on the work involved with setting up the reporting requirements for the IRS.

And then it's like "eh, we're getting rid of that." Fuck you, how about that? Can we have the time and money back we spent trying to sort out that nonsense?

Of course, employers shouldn't be at top of the list of who is kept in mind when these things are being planned, but when stuff like this is implemented, employers are left hanging onto crumbs of detail until the very last minute when the gov't finally decides what they meant by x, y or z, or how Q will work at all. Or they just delay it 10 times when they realize they have no idea how the details will work.

Could you assholes in charge PLEASE, for once in your silly little lives, plan out the details for employers, insurers, doctors, whoever is impacted, before you rush this shit through? (Yes, that goes retroactively for Obama, too.)

#EmployerBenefits4Lyfe
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:56 PM   #22
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I have to have a biopsy at the end of this month. Let's hope it's negative because I certainly can't afford to have cancer. Damn me for being poor, right?
Good luck.

In response to Chaffetz' comments: Fuck. You. You condescending asshole.

As always, hearing shit like that just makes me want so badly to take these dumbass insensitive lawmakers and bring them back to observe what my family had been going through in 2009/2010 with my dad. And then I'd tell them to put a fuckng sock in it. God, this sort of attitude makes me so angry.

My mom's got insurance through her job. I don't know how this new setup would affect businesses who have their own insurance plans for their employees, but if she gets screwed over by it, too...

I really hope there's a mass outcry over this plan. I hope people continue to hold these idiots' feet to the fire. I hope there's more angry town hall meetings. These guys need to get a clue.
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:11 PM   #23
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I wish this new bill would make it so I don't owe 5 people 20 bucks after a simple procedure
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:17 PM   #24
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Just saw this interesting article online:

https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/go...082553735.html

There's a few doofy comments below, but there's also some people who can see this plan for the BS it clearly is. If this whole thing does backfire on the GOP, I will bring the popcorn and laugh.
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:24 PM   #25
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Surprise surprise, the new health bill includes big tax cuts to the wealthy because you know... They need every bit of help they can! You know what's actually kindof sweet with this? Is that many trump supporters are poor or midle class. Precisely the people that will get shafted. Sadly all others will also get shafted except for the rich! God forbid they have to pay big taxes!
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:50 PM   #26
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The progressive tax must be massively increased. Extreme wealth is an unhealthy human condition. Losing touch with reality like that is not good for anyone.
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:13 PM   #27
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:18 PM   #28
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*Snort*

I love how some people just automatically assume all the criticism of Trump and the GOP must be coming only from the left. Not like independents or moderate Republican voters are a thing, right?
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:20 PM   #29
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our society is set up to punish people who have no money by demanding they pay money for everything necessary to get themselves out of poverty and then punishing them even further when they don't have it.

no money? that means you have shit credit so we won't give you money to open a business or go to school so you can actually make money.

no money? it's a shame you don't have a fixed address, so nobody will hire you so you can make money to afford two months' rent deposit on a place to live.

no money? how about a $10 bank fee every month because you have no money in your account. don't have the $10 to pay that fee right when we decide to take it? here's another $40 nsf fee on top of that for having no money. oh and that's being taken back *first* the instant you do have money again, no matter what else you may need it for.

no money? too bad you can't pay $75 for a passport or driver's license to identify yourself to employers so that they can legally hire you and you can make money.

no money? it's a shame you missed the payment on your cell phone plan this month. we're going to cut off service with no warning and charge you everything you owe plus $50 just to turn it back on. good luck getting a callback for a job without a phone!

no money? but all the jobs are downtown, and since you need to pay $3.50 to get on a bus, guess you're fucked unless you can find something in walking distance. if it narrows your opportunities by 95%, well then you can just easily move right?

it goes on and on. i admittedly (shamefully) used to have the mentality of "well shit if a panhandler gets a $2 coin on average every 10-15 minutes that's $8-$12 an hour, i make minimum wage which is $11 and i have a place to live" and wouldn't give it much more thought. but having come thisclose to being truly homeless and destitute in the past year i've come to realize how truly crushing society is to those who have money. you get a tiny bit but you already owe so much to so many it's instantly gone and chances are you're even worse off than before because the ones that didn't get paid now want even more next time you do get a couple bucks. and on, and on, and on.

"if you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever" - george orwell
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:31 PM   #30
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A. Men. Well said, Dave.
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:43 PM   #31
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our society is set up to punish people who have no money by demanding they pay money for everything necessary to get themselves out of poverty and then punishing them even further when they don't have it.

no money? that means you have shit credit so we won't give you money to open a business or go to school so you can actually make money.

no money? it's a shame you don't have a fixed address, so nobody will hire you so you can make money to afford two months' rent deposit on a place to live.

no money? how about a $10 bank fee every month because you have no money in your account. don't have the $10 to pay that fee right when we decide to take it? here's another $40 nsf fee on top of that for having no money. oh and that's being taken back *first* the instant you do have money again, no matter what else you may need it for.

no money? too bad you can't pay $75 for a passport or driver's license to identify yourself to employers so that they can legally hire you and you can make money.

no money? it's a shame you missed the payment on your cell phone plan this month. we're going to cut off service with no warning and charge you everything you owe plus $50 just to turn it back on. good luck getting a callback for a job without a phone!

no money? but all the jobs are downtown, and since you need to pay $3.50 to get on a bus, guess you're fucked unless you can find something in walking distance. if it narrows your opportunities by 95%, well then you can just easily move right?

it goes on and on. i admittedly (shamefully) used to have the mentality of "well shit if a panhandler gets a $2 coin on average every 10-15 minutes that's $8-$12 an hour, i make minimum wage which is $11 and i have a place to live" and wouldn't give it much more thought. but having come thisclose to being truly homeless and destitute in the past year i've come to realize how truly crushing society is to those who have money. you get a tiny bit but you already owe so much to so many it's instantly gone and chances are you're even worse off than before because the ones that didn't get paid now want even more next time you do get a couple bucks. and on, and on, and on.

"if you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever" - george orwell
Indeed! Well said!! And yet the rich get big tax cuts! But thank you for sharing! I hope you are in a better situation now and that everything works out for you! Society is shit to those who are not wealthy!
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:43 PM   #32
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Anything positive to be taken from the alleged hatred the Tea Party has for this new bill?
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:46 PM   #33
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I hope you are in a better situation now and that everything works out for you!
This, too. You have my absolute sympathy, Dave.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:07 PM   #34
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ugh, this iphone business. sure, just let your phone die (should you have the misfortune of your phone's battery eventually running out to where it doesn't hold a charge or otherwise just fucking up) so then you have no way of getting ahold of anyone! i'm not even talking about social media, even though i'm all for people being able to relax in their free time. i'm talking about people being able to call/text their boss or prospective employers. but what do these guys know or care about this, these are the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" guys who think anything is possible if you just work hard enough. if that were true then my family and i, along with most of the working class, would be rich. and this upper crust would be broke since they just live off of their investments, so they ought to shut up about hard work since they wouldn't know about a hard day's work if it bit them in the ass.

i finally got healthcare for the first time this year since 2009, i have no idea now how much it's going to cost me after all this. and i just have the bare minimum, the stuff that states have to legally offer you in order to be aca-compliant so you don't get stuck paying the tax penalty. it was a nice relief last month to be able to go to one of those clinics in the pharmacy and not have to pay a copay, even after getting tested for the flu.

i'd like to say someone like me isn't who's on their radar for being a mooch as i work full time, but who knows? i certainly don't earn enough to support myself in this city, what with the cost of living getting so out of control here as we're experiencing such a rapid population boom, i believe more than any other american city. and i don't even live downtown! my boyfriend and i barely afford our one bedroom apartment. we could probably find something cheaper if we really tried, but i think it'd have to be one of those "you have to know someone" things because honestly, every place online was about the same rentwise. and surprisingly the public transportation sucks here, believe me i know.

going off of davec's last post, people who are in the "have" category can tend to judge those who are in the "have not" category so much and of course, those who have even more will pit everyone else to fight for the few remaining scraps. so you get people writing stuff like "why should minimum wage be $15/hour? i don't even make that much and i'm a (some kind of skilled job implying fast food is only for dumbasses)." the real point of course isn't that the guy at mcd's doesn't deserve a living wage, it's that you, skilled worker, have been grossly underpaid all these years, and that's what politicians are hoping will distract everyone which is why the idea got put aside for now.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:47 PM   #35
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i'd like to say someone like me isn't who's on their radar for being a mooch as i work full time, but who knows?
To hear people talk with such disdain about mooches makes me wonder if I am one.

When the ACA passed and Medicaid expanded in my state, I became eligible. Despite working full time, I was only making minimum wage and was still below the poverty line. That just goes to show how much minimum wage is NOT a living wage. Many of my coworkers had to work two full time minimum wage jobs just to make ends meet, leaving them no time with their families.

I was working, but still so poor that I needed government assistance. Was I a mooch?

I'm not working right now, instead I'm a full time student, working toward a degree in healthcare so that I can actually make more than minimum wage. Am I a mooch? I'm trying to better myself. I don't receive food stamps even though I am eligible to. I have chosen not to. I could work part time (again at minimum wage) while being a full time student, but I'd still be so poor that I'd receive Medicaid, and my studies would suffer. Am I a mooch?

Having access to health care and medication is the only thing that keeps me going. I have to take anxiety medicine every day just to be able to function in society. I see a therapist regularly so that my stress does not overwhelm me. I have a birth control implant in my arm secreting hormones to me daily so that my ovaries do not explode into cysts and try to kill me. All of these things cost money. Am I a mooch because I am using taxpayer money to stay healthy?

Fun fact. Most people that receive government benefits are working. They're working full time and still not making ends meet, because everything is an uphill battle. They're working their asses off for 12 cents a minute (that's the federal minimum wage, before taxes), for a rich company that squirrels away their assets and tries to avoid paying taxes. And they get called mooches.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:52 PM   #36
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Heck, I don't even have an iPhone. I don't have any of those sorts of fancy gadgets. So that statement is also insulting with its assumption that everyone who's struggling financially is just automatically "blowing their money" on those sorts of things because...no?

There's also the fact that people can sometimes get that kind of stuff as gifts-my mom has an Amazon tablet that she got from one of our relatives as a Christmas gift last year. And then there's the fact that if people do buy those sorts of fancy things, they usually often do so when they ARE in a more financially stable situation.

But hey, why bring up facts like that, right? Better to just paint all poor/working class people as being stupid and careless with money so you (general "you") don't have to help or care about their struggles.
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:17 AM   #37
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My total medical bills for the 3 1/2 years I had ulcerative colitis and had to get 4 surgeries probably totaled over $500,000. Fuck Jason Chaffetz so much. He truly believes that if poor people didn't buy iPhones they could afford healthcare. I can't stress how absolutely disgusting his statement was.
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:53 AM   #38
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Figured this might be relevant to the healthcare discussion, especially given how the GOP's proposal plans to continue to restrict women's health issues:

Techies team up for abortion access hackathon - Mar. 6, 2017

Rather neat concept, I must say.
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Old 03-08-2017, 08:08 AM   #39
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Obamacare repeal. AKA: 7 years and THIS is what you come up with?!?!

There are things about this bill that actually do intrigue me. Namely, I have to wonder if the 30% increase in costs for lack of continuous coverage combined with keeping the rule against pre-existing conditions might work better for promoting coverage than does the current individual mandate plus penalty (ceteris paribus). The ACA is potentially death spiraling right now, so clearly the individual mandate needs some adjustment. I don't know if the 30% cost increase leads to something more or less actuarially sound, or more or less prone to adverse selection, but it's an intriguing way to try to deal with a legitimately enormous issue with the ACA.

That said, looks like this bill will be a struggle to pass anyway. Moderate Senate Republicans are none too happy about eventually repealing the Medicaid expansion, and House Freedom Caucus types are none too happy about the fact that this is still a rather major step of the federal government into health care, as compared to the pre-Obama baseline. We shall see.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:36 AM   #40
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Anything positive to be taken from the alleged hatred the Tea Party has for this new bill?
On the one hand, I'm fairly cynical about this because the Republicans are generally a lot better at herding the sheep than Democrats. The GOP has basically gerrymandered all the right-leaning Democrats out of the House. The Democratic caucus is basically united mostly because by and large the centrists are gone. So Paul Ryan has really no shot in getting them to pass any bipartisan bill. Which means his only hope is to negotiate with these Tea Party freaks which would result in a much worse bill than the one presented now.

On the other hand, Trump is totally unpredictable and while he is supporting this bill now, if he decides to take on a more disinterested role, the Freedom Caucus will be emboldened to hold out.

Polling data now has the ACA approval at 54-43%. The GOP is up deep doo-doo here.
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