Inside Broadcast VII: An Ode To The Permabanned

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Zoots' final post was awful and I'm sure he knew it would get him banned. I guess you could say he took this war he had with these "clique" people a little too far.
 
BoMac said:
Why'd you edit? I agreed with you for the most part. I think as the ambassador for the "much-maligned" clique, you articulated your position very well. :up:
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yeah, i agree. i found nothing wrong with the post. :up:
 
Well, I can't go putting it back up now. I just don't feel like getting into it after all. If one of you has it up and wants to PM it to me, I'll put it back up.

I don't think there was anything wrong with it at all. It just seemed foolish to try to defend the actions of myself and others right now.

The main thing here is that I'd prefer it if folks bitched to me directly. I don't like pussyfooting around stuff, and I'd be more than happy to give anyone alternatives to reading our jokes. But to act like we bring nothing to the table is downright ignorant.

What was misguided about it, Ian? Seriously. Enlighten me.
 
Zoots took it too personal and he got too personal, he often did ever since I can remember, he just got a little too personal one too many times.
 
Imperor said:
What was misguided about it, Ian? Seriously. Enlighten me.
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oh, just from skimming through the threads i'm not sure you're as welcoming as you guys think you are. it doesn't personally bother me because our tastes don't really cross much so i don't really pay much attention. i only really brought it up because you put it out there anyway.

but really, the same can be said anywhere about any group of people. so whatever.
 
I don't consider myself the kind of guy who welcomes anyone and everyone into the fold, but when someone wants to discuss a topic, I've got no reservations about them chiming in with their opinion. Whether or not I agree with it and how I react have nothing to do with that.

I'm no saint here, that much is obvious. And I'm one of very few people who will take a problem right to its source rather than bitching about it in some tucked away thread like you do. But if you think I keep things completely exclusive to Laz, LMP, Pfan, etc, you're dead wrong.
 
He said that people PM'd him in agreement on his position. I wonder how many of those, including himself, PM'd those that they disagree with?

I'm just thinking if you are that offended by someone, why not take it up with the source? Otherwise, the tension is just going to continue, and likely explode. No one really wants to go there. Taking things out on a mod is unnecessary, as well. But, I think it was quite clear things had snowballed for him over time, and he was just fed up overall.

I realize this makes me a hypocrite, as someone who frequently posts in the tank. But I can't recall a specific incidence occuring in any thread that got me wound up enough to do more than that.
 
Glad we're on the same page then, Ian.

I think a lot of this animosity really started with the Shuttlecock schism. The clique got cliquier and thus more polarizing. Those of us who are parts of this clique realize it exists, but it's foolish for anyone to think we're all conspiring to take down certain threads or posters. It doesn't work that way. We enjoy making each other laugh, and unfortunately a lot of the inside jokes we use for that purpose can be seen as the kind of exclusive crap you guys don't like. I get that, but I'm not going to apologize for it. I see plenty of stuff here I don't agree with, find completely vapid, or just plain don't care about. The difference is I glaze over it.

And lest you guys think I'm pulling some holier-than-thou thing right now, it's not that way at all. There are no perfect posters here, and I'm certainly far from it myself. Maybe farther than most. In any case, I'm going to keep cracking wise and having some great discussions about music, TV, films, and the like while I'm at it. If anything I say or do gets under anyone's skin, I can't help you. But feel free to PM me about it or respond in a thread rather than complaining about it in here, UYMFA, or wherever else. This place will never come close to approaching its "glory days" without going right to the source.
 
Imperor said:
Glad we're on the same page then, Ian.

I think a lot of this animosity really started with the Shuttlecock schism. The clique got cliquier and thus more polarizing. Those of us who are parts of this clique realize it exists, but it's foolish for anyone to think we're all conspiring to take down certain threads or posters. It doesn't work that way. We enjoy making each other laugh, and unfortunately a lot of the inside jokes we use for that purpose can be seen as the kind of exclusive crap you guys don't like. I get that, but I'm not going to apologize for it. I see plenty of stuff here I don't agree with, find completely vapid, or just plain don't care about. The difference is I glaze over it.

And lest you guys think I'm pulling some holier-than-thou thing right now, it's not that way at all. There are no perfect posters here, and I'm certainly far from it myself. Maybe farther than most.
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Every clique around here has its inside jokes, yours isn't the only one. And we all know that over the years there have been many cliques around here, yours isn't the first nor will it be the last. It just happens to be the most dominant and visible for the time being.

"Glazing over" as you say, or mentally ignoring is a useful skill. Too bad more people around here don't do it.

In short, this is much ado about nothing, imo. :shrug: No one is going to change the nature of online forums. Either ignore the parts you don't like, or don't participate.
 
I agree with all of that. VP, you're a perfect example of what I'm trying to say though. Look at the Mad Men thread. We all get along really well in there and have uniformly solid discussion, even if Laz or I pops off the occasional joke.
 
Impy, you done good here. I'm glad there's communication amongst the people. Well, most of the people anyway.

And I'll just add that I'm strongly with Impy on one particular point: have it out with the person. I hate the passive-aggressive shit that seems to foster when these disagreements get cut off quickly. They always come to a head eventually anyway, and the months of passive-aggressive stuff has just soured things even more.
 
gvox said:
RIP. :hug:

And the root of the problem remains, yet again. And will continue to, sadly.
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Tiger Edge said:
Some people need to shut the fuck up and some people need to speak the fuck up and everyone knows who they are in this scenario.

At least I wont have to hear about these people from Zoots anymore and thus won't come into contact with them, save for an odd thread or two.

It's just amazing how they managed to close a thread of his after he had already gone. Were they warned for it or was the thread just locked? I'm honestly curious about this.

I'll go back to the tour forums/FYM now. Bye.
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Galeongirl said:
I definitely hope that this banning hasn't been for nothing. He may not have brought it the correct way but there's truth in what he said.
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Agree with all the above -- and largely with zoots too.

So I just keep sending spontaneous neutering vibes (and also whatever the equivalent thing for females is) in the direction of the jerks here while I go about my merry way. :)


And because I know I should stay on topic here:

zoots! Now THAT was one hell of a final post! :rockon:

If I ever decide to get myself banned, that kind of post -- one that jacks up some blood pressures and gets :ohmy: faces from everyone -- is the type I want to write as my farewell (or fare-not-so-well) too. Hey, might as well go out with a big bang. :D
 
BoMac said:
I, for one, am enjoying the discussion here. It's great to see the varying opinions put forth this way and all of us interacting in this manner.

:up:
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I am too. I'm happy to see that some people are willing to talk maturely about this.
 
MrPryck2U said:
Zoots' final post was awful and I'm sure he knew it would get him banned. I guess you could say he took this war he had with these "clique" people a little too far.
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That's exactly it, aside from the fact that I fee a lot of what it was Zoots was saying, it just went about it all wrong.

Imperor said:
Glad we're on the same page then, Ian.

I think a lot of this animosity really started with the Shuttlecock schism. The clique got cliquier and thus more polarizing. Those of us who are parts of this clique realize it exists, but it's foolish for anyone to think we're all conspiring to take down certain threads or posters. It doesn't work that way. We enjoy making each other laugh, and unfortunately a lot of the inside jokes we use for that purpose can be seen as the kind of exclusive crap you guys don't like. I get that, but I'm not going to apologize for it. I see plenty of stuff here I don't agree with, find completely vapid, or just plain don't care about. The difference is I glaze over it.

And lest you guys think I'm pulling some holier-than-thou thing right now, it's not that way at all. There are no perfect posters here, and I'm certainly far from it myself. Maybe farther than most. In any case, I'm going to keep cracking wise and having some great discussions about music, TV, films, and the like while I'm at it. If anything I say or do gets under anyone's skin, I can't help you. But feel free to PM me about it or respond in a thread rather than complaining about it in here, UYMFA, or wherever else. This place will never come close to approaching its "glory days" without going right to the source.
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Impy, I like you guys, you're fun to talk to, you do bring things to the table, and if anyone were to say otherwise, that would be complete bullshit, but, it's not simply inside jokes that have turned me off of posting in ZS completely, and posting in B&C rather rarely, it's the picspamming and movie quoting. The completely irrelevant tangents that threads seem to go down whenever someone from this particular group of either start a thread, or join in on a thread. I would never deny a group of friends their inside jokes, I have many myself with my friends. But, I don't know, it just seems a given lately that threads in ZS and B&C are almost 70% likely not to make any sense towards the original topic by page two.

That's about all I have to say about that. I've never been bothered with it enough to bitch at anyone or say anything, I just avoid the threads, though that does pain me a bit.
 
There isn't wasn't (until this page) much dissenting opinion other than "gee we mean no harm and don't bash our clique"...just defensively stated a number of different ways.

And frankly some of the statements about 'how things work' are downright disingenuous, to say the least. But I'm pretty sure the more perceptive amongst us see that.

That's fine. If the members of "the clique" can honestly look within themselves and not feel any level of remorse or responsibility in being part of a scenario that resulted in one of our long time friends finally snapping and getting himself banned, well.. :shrug: What he said to Sicy was wrong, but it makes his departure no less sad, he was a good guy from what I see.

For what it's worth: take the same maturity that is working in this thread and try and use it to be a bit more perceptive when someone is starting to hurt because of your actions and show a bit of compassion/empathy/whatever and ease up on them a bit. I can probably do this, also.
 
Ashley, it definitely has gotten out of hand on more than one occasion, but you're just as likely to see an attempt by one or several to reel things back in.

gvox said:
If the members of "the clique" can honestly look within themselves and not feel any level of remorse or responsibility in being part of a scenario that resulted in one of our long time friends finally snapping and getting himself banned, well.. :shrug:
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Then :shrug: it is.
 
Imperor said:
Ashley, it definitely has gotten out of hand on more than one occasion, but you're just as likely to see an attempt by one or several to reel things back in.
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Good point, and honestly, I think I just feel more lost/out of the loop than really put out by it. If that makes sense, anyways.
 
Even I feel out of the loop for a lot of the movie references. I strictly post in B&C because I'm so behind on films.
 
I also think it's worth noting that Zoots was completely wrong in inferring that we receive some sort of special treatment from the moderators.
 
If I'm being perfectly honest with myself, I won't miss Zoots. All he had contributed to the forum in a year or more was complaints without proposed solutions, personal attacks, and self-pity. Just the same, I somehow feel this ordeal, and his banishment, were completely unnecessary. Zoots hardly deserves a martyr tag, as you have to sacrifice yourself FOR something to earn one of those, and he couldn't have cared less about Interference by the end of his stay here, but somewhere in that hurricane of misplaced anger and poor judgment, I think he may have given us a window into what a number of B&C and ZS regulars have been thinking for a long time.

I kinda sorta consider myself a member of the Shuttlecock click by virtue of seniority alone, having been there from post #1, and one of the big pluses I've noticed about its existence is that the imaginary "GTFO U2" sign once plastered on B&C has been taken down. Before Shuttlecock, I could count on one hand how many U2-related discussions I had taken part in in B&C since I registered here, and it has been a great experience to discuss my favorite band with people I enjoy talking to. It's why I signed up here in the first place, after all.

However, I don't often indulge myself in the Shuttlecockings these days, and it's simply due to the volume of jokes that go completely over my head. No harm there, I join in when I can. The point is, it's entirely possible for me to propose a topic of interest (to me) in those threads, rarely contributing to running jokes, and still squeeze out an opinion or two from you guys. It is possible to CoeXisT, whether Zoots wanted to bother with it or not. By the end there, he clearly didn't.

Now, there are some variables. My topic has to be of interest to someone to survive. It's more likely to die in a thread packed with regulars who CLEARLY aren't interested, so I don't recommend posting something in Random Music Talk if you want an answer/opinion fast, slow, whenever. It ain't happening. The best option is to make your own thread on the topic and see what happens. And this is the one area I think Zoots had a sound point. Random Music Talk SHOULD be random and CAN go off-topic. That's the way it goes. If it would be better suited for OOC is up to debate. But new threads shouldn't become Random Music Talk, and they often do. Share your opinion, get out, let the thread move on. There should be some limits, and I think that, if there were, we would all have enough breathing room to CoeXisT.

Love all ya'll, and I want this forum to run right. I think that if Zoots would have chosen to SUGGEST rather than EXPECT, acting like a cat in the rain when he didn't get it handed to him immediately, perhaps he would still be here to praise Achtung Baby another day. And we all know that what Achtung Baby needs, besides better production, is more praise. :)
 
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