Why I am against U2 playing at the Super Bowl - Bono has gone back on his word....

[Hitman]

Originally posted by womanfish:
"
It's extremely difficult to fuck up the mainstream when you're not in it, and it's extremely difficult to be in the mainstream and fuck it up.

B]

Yes indeed, but that why it was so brilliant in the first place. It wasn't about some "underground" band fucking up the mainstream.........

It was about 'THE BIGGEST BAND IN THE WORLD' "abusing thier position" and "fucking up the mainstream. And personally, I believe that Bono is STILL in that position, and I wish he would STILL abuse it. Again, I saw Elevation in NJ a few weeks ago and it blew my mind, but this is a nitpicky matter that can only be discussed on a U2 message board, which is, uh, precisely where we are.
____________________________________________
The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be

 

[Hitman]

Oh yeah, and as a U2 fan who posts on frigggin'Interference for gods sake.......

Of course I will watch the Super Bowl. U2 is the best band in the world, and just because I wish they would not play this show does not mean I will not watch it........

Even though I wish they did not make the movie, I still watch Rattle and Hum... (but only when I'm really wasted......)

I was only 11 when it first came out though...

 

[STING2]

TV shows, specials, Festival concerts, interviews! Don't any of you anti-SBs remember U2 in the Early 80s? There were plenty of TV appearences to go around including January 15, 1980 on the late late show in Ireland before they even had a record deal. In this country, how about the Tomorrow show May 30, 1981 with Tom Snyder! If U2 had been offered the halftime of the Superbowl in 1981 do you think they would have turned it down? I think not!

 

[Hitman]

Originally posted by SicilianGoddess:
lmfao

I wish I had the Sicilian Goddess at my back on this issue............

It would make it much easier.

 

[HelloAngel]

All good points, people.

But my question is this - is all of this discussion going somewhere? Are we aiming at a purpose or some kind of consensus? And after trading barbs, opinions and over-analyzed bits of Bono-speak and come to realize whatever we are to realize by engaging in discussion - will it really change how you feel about U2? Does it really matter?

And also, re: Fucking Up The Mainstream...
so the SuperBowl is seen as the pinnacle of Mainstream performances.. is it possible that U2 are still aiming at Fucking Up the Mainstream by playing there? Is it possible that they are smirking at the idea of playing the SB, and not necessarily hearing cha-ching? U2 are not seen as current mainstream music - rap and r&b and pop is - I personally feel that U2 playing the SB is fucking up the mainstream.. the current musical mainstream that is. SB fans are expecting to see no-brainer talent get out there and shake some T&A, not a kick ass rock band!! So yes - good enough for me - I do believe this is going to, for a second (or however long HalfTime is), fuck up and better yet - INTERRUPT the Mainstream.

 

[SicilianGoddess]

I refuse to get involved in this discussion.

lol.

 

[Salome]

Originally posted by womanfish:
"Fuck up the mainstream" was just a statement made at an awards show for Christ's sake. Too many people are acting like it is some prophecy from God that U2 had to follow. Bono says a lot of shit. Some awesome, some really stupid, some in between.

I put this somewhere in between, because I think he failed to realize a simple catch-22.
It's extremely difficult to fuck up the mainstream when you're not in it, and it's extremely difficult to be in the mainstream and fuck it up.

During achtung/zoo, there was publicity and promotion out the ass! They did extended legs of the zoo tour just like now. They got extremely lucky that their music was accepted as well as it was. It was a great time to release that record. Modern rock was THE thing. Listen to Achtung again and tell me that Mysterious Ways, One, WGRYWH, etc... is fucking up anything. They were very radio friendly singles that got a ton of play.

very well put

btw Hitman, make up your mind:
either "U2 went back on everything that ZooTV stood for" (pretty harsh methinks) and this is important enough for you to bring up in 3 different threads or it is "Again, not the end of the world"

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Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[Saracene]

"Achtung Baby/ Zoo TV/ Zooropa will live in history as one of the greatest ass kicking periods in rock-n-roll in history. ATYCLB/ Elevation will live on as a period of time where U2 went back on everything that ZooTV stood for."

For you, yes. Then again, Achtung Baby/Zoo TV/Zooropa will probably live for some other people as a period in which U2 went against everything they stood for in the 80s. I mean, look at the Elevation reviews now; three quarters of them are knocking down ZooTV and Popmart for being "excessive" and blah, blah, blah.

 

[Aine]

Originally posted by Hitman:
It used to be U2 didn't go on EVERY awards show.....funny, it made them seem even more HUGE, that they were somehow above these things, too cool to be bothered......

To me, at least, it seems U2 is not fucking up the mainstream anymore, they are merely part of the mainstream....mere steps above Aerosmith. I still love the band but I miss the attitude, the swagger, the "we are going to do it our way" mentality that Bono and the band carried throughout most of the 90's. They have spent too much time lately ensuring that they will remain popular. It used to be Bono didn't even care about losing the "pop kids". Now he goes (way) out of his way to court them.

Exactly.


[This message has been edited by Aine (edited 11-29-2001).]

 

[kerc]

I'm a pop kid. I love POP.

Oh, you weren't referring to that? Diablos.

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k e r c

La aventura del comienzo
La intriga de lo incierto
No temas y busca lo nuevo
S?lo empieza desde cero

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I think the new album itself calls for reaching out to as many people as possible. ATYCLB is an album with positive messages strewn throughout and is fairly straight forward with little irony. They want to really reach the audience especially the way music is these days and to be holier than thou or distant from media opportunities like you mentioned with Stern or SNL or Leno would defeat the purpose or reasoning behind this album's creation IMO.

Bono has mentioned their nineties work allowed them to create artifice and masks so the distance or aura that was mentioned by Hitman makes sense in the nineties. But with ATYCLB, being distant or separating oneself from exposure (alah a Fugazi type of way would) handcuff the message they want to spread through this present album.

Its like I want to share something positive and joyful with you but in order for you the person, who isn't as receptive (alah today's music lovers) you've got to come to me to find out? I don't think that's what the guys want this time around otherwise ATYCLB lyrically would have been more like the nineties stuff.

Also "fucking up the mainstream" can never really happen IMO. Womanfish has the right idea in terms of the problem with that statement.

However I have to disagree with the idea of some those songs on Achtung being radio friendly at the time of release... It was more like the grunge era and alt rock essentially sounded like retro rock. Achtung just sounded to different to fit. Sure it has hooks in the songs that make it catchy, but for instance Wilco has just as many hooks as does Blur yet they barely get airplay. Heck Achtung if it came out now would be so unlike most music out on MTV or the radio today.


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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC

 

[u2sangel]

So u2 is playing the Superbowl so what?they are older and wiser now and they were also asked to play.Come on u2 have grown up why don't you?

 

[Matthew_Page2000]

So U2 can't fuck up the mainstream because they are the mainstream? What a load of crap. U2 sign contract to play superbowl. TV executives tell U2 they can play "anything." U2 come out at halftime and play Bullet the Blue Sky with a Bono rap on American terrorism. Mayhem ensues. Journalists and politicians claim Bono is the source of all evil in the known universe.

MAP

 

[Zoocoustic]

The reason U2 is doing so many shows and specials is because after Pop, if they were going to reclaim the title of "biggest band in the world", they had to get their name back out there.

During ZooTV, U2 could have done (or NOT done) anything they wanted - they were so huge. Every kid owned their albums, talked about them, went to the shows, bought the t-shirts, etc. They were as hugely popular as Brittney or N'Sync or whatever else is you can't seem to get away from right now.

Pop and Popmart really screwed up the band's popularity and reputation. After Pop and Popmart, too many people saw U2 as old, and past their time. Hey, I loved Pop, but the fact is, most people didn't - it really hurt U2's nearly flawless (to that point) career.

For U2 to get back on top, they had to release a radio-friendly album, and do everything they could to promote it. They did, and look at how well it has worked: ATYCLB has outsold Pop in the US 2:1. The tours are sold out whereas with Popmart most shows were hitting 50% capacity at best. They won Grammy's and were presented with an MTV award, and have been nominated for about everything they could be; with pop I believe they had one lonely Grammy nomination and won absolutely nothing.

With the huge success of this album and tour, it leaves room for U2 to do something a bit less mainstream, a bit more "out there". They have in the past with Rattle and Hum and Zooropa, two follow-ups which were much less mainstream than their popular predecessors. Whether they do this or not remains to be seen.

 

[Hawk269]

Zoocoustic,

Good points. I say that this next album should *DEFINITELY* go the experimentation route. They needed ATYCLB to remind people of what they could do together as a rock band, and to reassert their dominance.

*But*, now it is time to grow musically, and that often means taking a big piss in the mainstream (thanks to Live for that analogy). It is no surprise that their best albums were the ones that were most out of step with the music of the time period. Very few songs on the Joshua Tree sound "80's", where as a song like The Unforgettable Fire does sound kind of 80's.

All I am saying is it is time to Fuck up the mainstream again! You know, Think Different!


AJ

[This message has been edited by Hawk269 (edited 11-29-2001).]

 

[kariatari]

Originally posted by Hitman:
Well, the bottom line is this:

He made a promise to the "young people of America" (of which I still consider myself to be a part of) to continue to "abuse our position" and "Fuck up the mainstream", and he has failed to deliver on that promise.

I see what you mean Hitman, but if you really think about it, U2 *ARE* fucking up the mainstream. Look at MTV these days...it's all hip-hop, teenie-bop-pop fluff, or recycled gap-grunge and most of the people in these groups aren't even over 30! In a mainstream like that, U2 fuck it up in a major way by being a group of guys in their 40's who play straight-forward, uplifting, and RELEVANT rock.

 

[Matthew_Page2000]

Originally posted by Zoocoustic:

The tours are sold out whereas with Popmart most shows were hitting 50% capacity at best.

Sorry, I couldn't let this go Zoocoustic. Who on earth told you that most PopMart shows barely played to 50% capacity? There were a few shows on the first leg in America that didn't sell well. There were a very few that sold about 50% of the available tickets. It certainly wasn't the norm.

MAP

 

[forbonou2]

I for one am all for More U2! And I agree we(USA) need their uplifting message and music esp. when they are coming to to, is it Atlanta wow, around the corner from me! Cool! And I for one love to see them doing their job, and they do it quite well i think.

 

[Zoocoustic]

I know that the Seattle show I was at in the Kingdome was about half full. From many other people I talked to, and articles I read, a lot of the US shows were being played to half-empty staiums.

Bottom line however is that Popmart didn't sell out stadiums like ZooTV. And a lot of empty seats (regardless of the size of the venue) is a very bad thing to have on tour - gives people the idea that you don't have "it" anymore.

 

[PopFly]

Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000:
So U2 can't fuck up the mainstream because they are the mainstream? What a load of crap. U2 sign contract to play superbowl. TV executives tell U2 they can play "anything." U2 come out at halftime and play Bullet the Blue Sky with a Bono rap on American terrorism. Mayhem ensues. Journalists and politicians claim Bono is the source of all evil in the known universe.

I think this would cross the fine line between "fucking up the mainstream" and "being disrespectful assholes." Seeing as how U2 has paid tribute to the victims of September 11th at every concert since the tragedy, I doubt that they would do this.



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"Good men die unhappily. Bad men die unluckily. THAT's tragedy." --Tom Stoppard

Adam: Look guys, I got a Springfield spoon for my spoon collection.
Edge: Oh boy, here we go...
Bono: Wow, how many is that now Adam?
Adam: Nine. If I didn't have my spoons, I'd go insane.
Bono: Can I see it?
*adam gives bono the spoon, bono throws it away*
Adam: My spoon!

 

[The_Sweetest_Thing]

I don't quite see where this conversation is headed...

All I know is, yes. I'm happy U2 is popular. True, that makes getting tickets harder for us fans...
I'm a little upset that they are pplaying SB. They're popular enough, big enough without having to do that. It seems more a money ploy, a popularity contest tahn anything. It seemed once that U2 was concerned with their own way, with changing the world. Now it almost feels as if they're lessening that, moving with the masses. Egocentric?

On the ohther hand, they're reaching out to a new generation/new world of U2 fandom. More publicity=more messages. Reclaiming status as 'biggest band in the world' is tough. It unhooks everyone from Britney/NSuck fandom.

Ah, now I'm rambling...

 

[doctorwho]

Isn't U2 still "f*cking up the mainstream?"

Listen to the top hits of today - then listen to "Beautiful Day" and "Stuck in a Moment...". Sounds like U2's music sure is different from the cliched sound of today's artists.

I believe the ONLY way to "f*ck up the mainstream" is to be in it! In other words, one is a success but still unique and vastly different from everyone else. U2 fits that mode perfectly.

As for the Super Bowl... when it's confirmed, then I'll discuss it.

 

[Matthew_Page2000]

Zoocoustic, I too was at the Seattle PopMart show and although it wasn't sold out it was well more than half full. Also, I've actually seen the box scores for all the American PopMart gigs and most of them were relatively close to being sold out. There were exceptions of course and there were even a few gigs hovering around 50% sold out but they were in the minority. Outside of the U.S. PopMart sold out almost everywhere.
Remember too that a partially sold out U2 stadium show means that 35-60,000 tickets have been sold in a 70,000 seat arena. U2 are more popular now than they were in 1997 but the Elevation gig played in the Seattle area (Tacoma) took well over a month to sell out and that was just 20,000 tickets. If U2 had tried to play a stadium gig in the Northwest this time around I'm sure that it still wouldn't have sold out.

PopFly, regarding U2 playing Bullet at the Super Bowl: I used it as a somewhat ridiculous example of how U2 could still shock people and given your response I think I've made my point. I didn't mean that they should actually take that route. My point was that U2 can still fuck up the mainstream if they really want to. And Bono HAS said that they play Bullet in the post 9/11 shows to remind Americans of their own terrorist acts in the past.

MAP

 

[UnforgettableLemon]

This reminds me of all the hardcore Green Day fans saying Green Day were sellouts. So what does Green Day do? Release the biggest pop song they possibly could, just because they know it was going to do well and piss their old anal fans off even more. You can f*ck up the mainstream without even being any different than what surrounds you, at least on the surface.

 

[U2junkie]

I guess everyone interprets behavior differently. I think it's great that the band is playing SO many special events. I don't think they're doing it to "sell" the album...the album/cd can do that on it's own. And, I never thought of U2 as thinking they were too "good" or "big" to do such events in the past. It takes time and scheduling, with the tour and all. I think they're doing it becuase they want to do it. Let's face it, they don't need to recrute fans, they have hundreds of thousands of those. I think, like the Edge said, " the BEST PART is getting up on stage and playing". I don't think the staging or venue or event particulary matters. But they are in the mainstream. They have messed it up a bit.....and when you get to be that big, you're bound to get critized for something. Me, I think they're great, doing great, and hope they continue on this musical journey they've done so well walking down.