This should have been the album after Pop

[Niceman]

Well, obviously there are many people who think Bomb is better than ATYCLB. But if I had to make an educated guess based on polls and time with the blue crack, it's probably 2:1 in favor of ATYCLB.

I think that's true. Part of it is because we had to wait 5 years with The Bomb being the latest. That's a lot of pressure on an album.

But the bigger factor is Beautiful Day. One of the most popular U2 songs ever! But without that? I don't think many people would rank the album highly. It's a deck of cards that falls COMPLETELY apart without that lead single.

Kinda the opposite of NLOTH where the lead single bombed, but the album...

 

[bram]

I think that's true. Part of it is because we had to wait 5 years with The Bomb being the latest. That's a lot of pressure on an album.

But the bigger factor is Beautiful Day. One of the most popular U2 songs ever! But without that? I don't think many people would rank the album highly. It's a deck of cards that falls COMPLETELY apart without that lead single.

Kinda the opposite of NLOTH where the lead single bombed, but the album...

You make a good point: lead-off singles can really define an album, especially relatively recent ones. ATYCLB and NLOTH are almost opposites in this sense. While I don't agree that ATYCLB falls apart without BD, I do think it's the best song on the album and it seems to "stand for" the album as a whole, even if its sound isn't reiterated in the other songs. The two previous albums were very much characterized--rightly or wrongly--by their first singles, and this is still probably the case for most of the non-fan public. They think BD, not ATYCLB; they think Vertigo, not HTDAAB.

NLOTH will never be characterized by GOYB, and perhaps one reason for its relative lack of popularity compared to the other two albums is that it doesn't have a major song to stand up for it. In this way, I think it's somewhat similar to Pop and even Zooropa. The most consistently well-loved U2 albums seem to have at least one band-defining song that really caught the world's attention (true for War, UF, JT, and AB--all of these albums actually contain at least 2 of these types of songs). I thought Magnificent would be that song for NLOTH, but for one reason or another (or a combination of reasons) this song didn't take off. I'm actually starting to think that if Crazy Tonight had been released first, this album may have taken off in a similar way to ATYCLB and HTDAAB. And CT would probably have been a big hit for the band, perhaps close to the level of Vertigo. Even as the third single, it's performing significantly better than the others from NLOTH.

Anyway, Magnificent will always be a 'band-defining song' to my mind.

 

[Niceman]

You make a good point: lead-off singles can really define an album, especially relatively recent ones. ATYCLB and NLOTH are almost opposites in this sense. While I don't agree that ATYCLB falls apart without BD, I do think it's the best song on the album and it seems to "stand for" the album as a whole, even if its sound isn't reiterated in the other songs. The two previous albums were very much characterized--rightly or wrongly--by their first singles, and this is still probably the case for most of the non-fan public. They think BD, not ATYCLB; they think Vertigo, not HTDAAB.

NLOTH will never be characterized by GOYB, and perhaps one reason for its relative lack of popularity compared to the other two albums is that it doesn't have a major song to stand up for it. In this way, I think it's somewhat similar to Pop and even Zooropa. The most consistently well-loved U2 albums seem to have at least one band-defining song that really caught the world's attention (true for War, UF, JT, and AB--all of these albums actually contain at least 2 of these types of songs). I thought Magnificent would be that song for NLOTH, but for one reason or another (or a combination of reasons) this song didn't take off. I'm actually starting to think that if Crazy Tonight had been released first, this album may have taken off in a similar way to ATYCLB and HTDAAB. And CT would probably have been a big hit for the band, perhaps close to the level of Vertigo. Even as the third single, it's performing significantly better than the others from NLOTH.

Anyway, Magnificent will always be a 'band-defining song' to my mind.

Moment of Surrender. They screwed up by not doing what Eno told them with the lead single. The best and most memorable song on the album... I can only hope they make it the final single!

Imagine the 10 track album ATYCLB with Elevation as track #1. The album wouldn't be what it is if not for Beautiful Day. Try to imagine the songs without that track introducing the era. It's not the same..... I don't believe most people evaluate the songs on that album the way that they would if not for BD. I think the song rubs off on the others and makes them appear better than they actually are......just association.....

 

[65980]

I don't think the average U2 fan is even 5% as critical as the average poster on this forum. For every one of you who says something like "ATYCLB" sucks bone!", there are about 15 casual U2 fans who say, "I like that album with 'It's a Beautiful Day' on it! Oh, do they have a new album out?"

You can argue all you want about how the critical U2 fan's opinion is worth than Jane Doe who works at the dentist's office, but the band themselves clearly don't see it that way. U2 has always pursued the biggest audience possible, and has shown remarkable ability to win over (at least two) new generations of fans, largely with the help of (a) radio singles, and (b) their incredible live shows. I therefore maintain that far more U2 fans like the last two albums than the current one, although I concede it's a bit too early to write the epitaph of NLOTH just yet.

There simply are very few bands with the cross-demographic appeal of U2. The majority of people on this forum present, in my opinion, a very narrow window into U2-fandom. The majority of posters here tend to be (a) internet babies -- i.e., third-generation U2 fans that were introduced to the band in the 1990s; (b) highly critical, obsessive types (I might include myself in that); (c) fans who are uncomfortable with U2's appealing to a uncritical, mass audience (hence people over-rate obscure tracks like "Winter" as the direction the band should take); and, (d) English-speaking.

This is all fine and dandy -- to each his own and all -- but I just make the point that this particular demographic is not representative, in any way, of U2's overall fanbase.

 

[nielsgov]

But it is representative for the die-hard fans no?

 

[Niceman]

I don't think the average U2 fan is even 5% as critical as the average poster on this forum. For every one of you who says something like "ATYCLB" sucks bone!", there are about 15 casual U2 fans who say, "I like that album with 'It's a Beautiful Day' on it! Oh, do they have a new album out?"

You can argue all you want about how the critical U2 fan's opinion is worth than Jane Doe who works at the dentist's office, but the band themselves clearly don't see it that way. U2 has always pursued the biggest audience possible, and has shown remarkable ability to win over (at least two) new generations of fans, largely with the help of (a) radio singles, and (b) their incredible live shows. I therefore maintain that far more U2 fans like the last two albums than the current one, although I concede it's a bit too early to write the epitaph of NLOTH just yet.

There simply are very few bands with the cross-demographic appeal of U2. The majority of people on this forum present, in my opinion, a very narrow window into U2-fandom. The majority of posters here tend to be (a) internet babies -- i.e., third-generation U2 fans that were introduced to the band in the 1990s; (b) highly critical, obsessive types (I might include myself in that); (c) fans who are uncomfortable with U2's appealing to a uncritical, mass audience (hence people over-rate obscure tracks like "Winter" as the direction the band should take); and, (d) English-speaking.

This is all fine and dandy -- to each his own and all -- but I just make the point that this particular demographic is not representative, in any way, of U2's overall fanbase.

I'm pretty sure that, worldwide, at least 51% of U2 fans speak English. Even as a second language. They aren't rocking out to Beautiful Day deep in the interior of China.....

And from my personal observations, there seem to be A LOT of people on here, like myself, who followed U2 back in the 80s....

 

[65980]

I'm pretty sure that, worldwide, at least 51% of U2 fans speak English. Even as a second language. They aren't rocking out to Beautiful Day deep in the interior of China.....

Well, I live in Taiwan and Guns'n'Roses are playing here soon -- a high profile show that's being advertised on national TV regularly.

I guarantee they are rocking out to 'Beautiful Day' in the interior of China (albeit more often along the coasts). The person I told the story about, above, was a woman from China...

 

[Niceman]

Well, I live in Taiwan and Guns'n'Roses are playing here soon -- a high profile show that's being advertised on national TV regularly.

I guarantee they are rocking out to 'Beautiful Day' in the interior of China (albeit more often along the coasts). The person I told the story about, above, was a woman from China...

I'm not saying that ONLY English speakers are U2 fans, but I'd need more info - than that you know someone in China- to be convinced that the majority were not..... Does someone have numbers of how many albums sell in which countries? That would seem to be the best way to measure it.

Do more sell in China than in the US or Europe? I seriously doubt it...

 

[LemonMelon]

Well, obviously there are many people who think Bomb is better than ATYCLB. But if I had to make an educated guess based on polls and time with the blue crack, it's probably 2:1 in favor of ATYCLB.

ATYCLB's peaks are much greater than Bomb's, but I find Stuck In A Moment, Elevation, and Grace far more offensive to my sensibilities than anything on Bomb. It's becoming more of a wash every day.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I'd still take ATYCLB's low points over the Bomb. They generally, even if bad songs, still have the important easy-breezy loose pop feel to them. They at least sound like they came from an organic place, even if they are bad to very bad songs by U2 standards. I can't stand Elevation, but I'd take it over All Because of You any day of the week.

 

[Zoots]

I'd still take ATYCLB's low points over the Bomb. They generally, even if bad songs, still have the important easy-breezy loose pop feel to them. They at least sound like they came from an organic place, even if they are bad to very bad songs by U2 standards.

I say again... Eno/Lanois.

 

[nielsgov]

ATYCLB just feels more like an album and has better songs than HTDAAB. The only song I don't like on ATYCLB is Grace. It's just plain boring.

 

[U2girl]

Both are a collection of songs. 11 singles, like the band said.

I would prefer ATYCLB - if it didn't tank halfway through and if they had used Ground beneath her feet and Stateless like Bono wanted. And it's way too polished at times in production (Walk on, Elevation).

 

[65980]

Y'all can forget about "albums". That was the trend in rock music from 1967 to about 2000, but those days are over.

 

[Niceman]

Just because the pop kids have too much ADD to listen to real albums doesn't mean that real art shouldn't be pursued.

And again, it's my opinion that HTDAAB is a better album than ATYCLB.

 

[Chill Mike D]

ATYCLB's peaks are much greater than Bomb's, but I find Stuck In A Moment, Elevation, and Grace far more offensive to my sensibilities than anything on Bomb. It's becoming more of a wash every day.

I'm with you on this for the most part, except for Grace. That one is ok with me even if the lyrics are something Bono co-opted from a scrap of paper in a Trapper Keeper he found at a middle school bus-stop.

 

[digitize]

The only song I really have an issue with on ATYCLB is Elevation. Even Stuck has started to grow on me a lot lately, and Wild Honey has its place in life. My biggest problem with ATYCLB is the out-of-balance track order and the lack of inclusion of TGBHF.

On Bomb, I'd say that the only three songs I don't have an issue with are COBL, OOTS, and OSC, although the last one hardly has anything good apart from not having anything bad.

 

[mikal]

The only song I really have an issue with on ATYCLB is Elevation. Even Stuck has started to grow on me a lot lately, and Wild Honey has its place in life. My biggest problem with ATYCLB is the out-of-balance track order and the lack of inclusion of TGBHF.

On Bomb, I'd say that the only three songs I don't have an issue with are COBL, OOTS, and OSC, although the last one hardly has anything good apart from not having anything bad.

i remember that the band changed the track order of ATYCLB about 2-3 weeks before the release. it was originally this:

1. Beautiful Day
2. Elevation
3. Walk On
4. Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
5. Peace On Earth
6. Kite
7. New York
8. In A Little While
9. Wild Honey
10. When I Look At The World
11. Grace

this is how i prefer to listen to the album.

 

[digitize]

I'd still take ATYCLB's low points over the Bomb. They generally, even if bad songs, still have the important easy-breezy loose pop feel to them. They at least sound like they came from an organic place, even if they are bad to very bad songs by U2 standards. I can't stand Elevation, but I'd take it over All Because of You any day of the week.

Exactly.

Y'all can forget about "albums". That was the trend in rock music from 1967 to about 2000, but those days are over.

NLOTH is a true album in a conceptual way (much more so than, say, TJT), and ATYCLB is to an extent, at least in a basic thematic way.

Bomb, on the other hand...

 

[gherman]

Don't count me in on that. Its the best I've heard since AB... to me

 

[digitize]

i remember that the band changed the track order of ATYCLB about 2-3 weeks before the release. it was originally this:

1. Beautiful Day
2. Elevation
3. Walk On
4. Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
5. Peace On Earth
6. Kite
7. New York
8. In A Little While
9. Wild Honey
10. When I Look At The World
11. Grace

this is how i prefer to listen to the album.

That's better, but I'd still prefer something like this:

1. Elevation
2. Beautiful Day
3. Kite
4. In A Little While
5. Stuck In A Moment
6. Wild Honey
7. When I Look At The World
8. Peace On Earth
9. Grace
10. The Ground Beneath Her Feet
11. New York
12. Walk On

Not exactly like that, I guess, but close.

 

[allbecauseofu2]

yea. the thing about albums going away is that its almost like a bizarre updated version of the 1950's. Wasn't it all about singles back then? I mean i have NEVER anything about a epic Elvis ALBUM. Just these hit singles. Didn't kids back then really just care about songs? i don;t know if if we have anyone that old on this message board who can say first hand. I know theirs baby boomers who were really little in the 50's on here, bit i would like a perspective from a someone who was like 18 in 1958.That may be a little too far out of u2;s age range. I mean will artists one day just release a few songs on the internet, with a mtv video, and when they tour the "other songs that would have been on a album" will serve as concert filler? One could say this is ultimate dumbing down of the world of rock & pop music. Or it may be just coming full circle? whenever i see stuff about 1950's rock its about hit singles and crazy concerts.

 

[ozeeko]

yea. the thing about albums going away is that its almost like a bizarre updated version of the 1950's. Wasn't it all about singles back then? I mean i have NEVER anything about a epic Elvis ALBUM. Just these hit singles. Didn't kids back then really just care about songs? i don;t know if if we have anyone that old on this message board who can say first hand. I know theirs baby boomers who were really little in the 50's on here, bit i would like a perspective from a someone who was like 18 in 1958.That may be a little too far out of u2;s age range. I mean will artists one day just release a few songs on the internet, with a mtv video, and when they tour the "other songs that would have been on a album" will serve as concert filler? One could say this is ultimate dumbing down of the world of rock & pop music. Or it may be just coming full circle? whenever i see stuff about 1950's rock its about hit singles and crazy concerts.

About the whole 50's full circle thing...gotta say i totally agree. I've been saying that for the past couple years.

We are back in the days of "how much is that doggy in the window?"
Except now its more like "how much is dat bitch in da club?"

 

[mama cass]

noooooooooooo!

i love All that you can't leave behind! (it's faster for me to type the whole damn thing out rather than work out the acronym )

 

[allbecauseofu2]

it may be going that way. it might be hard to complain since rocks founding fathers started it off this way. A band makes the record, but in reality its about the singles and the 45's. the manager books em on shows, and then they promote the singles, etc. go see em in concert. basic. No concept albums or stage shows or anything. No artistic statements. no thinking involved at all. If they had youtube and the internet in the 50';s they would have used that too. can you see anyone having a set list discussion from a 50's rock concert. lol.

 

[Niceman]

Exactly.


NLOTH is a true album in a conceptual way (much more so than, say, TJT), and ATYCLB is to an extent, at least in a basic thematic way.

Bomb, on the other hand...

ATYCLB is an EP, with B-sides included....

 

[nielsgov]

NLOTH is a true album in a conceptual way (much more so than, say, TJT), and ATYCLB is to an extent, at least in a basic thematic way.

Bomb, on the other hand...

I love NLOTH but it's just not a concept album. I think it was supposed to be a thematic album. But they put some songs on NLOTH that just don't fit the overal mood and theme of the album. It's really difficult to find one consistent theme through out the album. I'd say ATYCLB and Bomb have a more consistent theme than NLOTH. But still the songs on NLOTH are better.

 

[Snowlock]

Do we really need another goofy glam rocker like Boots or Vertigo or SUC?

Yes

Another cookie cutter stadium ready optimistic anthem like Crazy Tonight or Walk On or City Of Blinding Lights or Breathe?

Yes

Do we need to hear the token Walk On chiming guitar lines again? (i'm talking Electrical Storm and Crumbs and UC here).

Yes.

You can keep the One Step Closers, White As Snow's and Cedars. There are other bands that do this and does it better.

What you ask do we really need more of, no one does better. They sound cliche now and forced and easy, but U2 is the source of the cliche. Sounds like you're sick of U2 and want them to be someone else. I just want them to be them.

If SoA is more "meditative" than "soaring" it'll instantly go to the bottom of the stack for me. I like experimentation; so bring on Winter, Kingdom and more NLOTH's (title track) and Fez:BB's. But please don't give me a bunch of boring songs to smoke weed to; I gotta listen to this stuff in my car and at work too.

 

[ozeeko]

Yes



Yes



Yes.

You can keep the One Step Closers, White As Snow's and Cedars. There are other bands that do this and does it better.

What you ask do we really need more of, no one does better. They sound cliche now and forced and easy, but U2 is the source of the cliche. Sounds like you're sick of U2 and want them to be someone else. I just want them to be them.

If SoA is more "meditative" than "soaring" it'll instantly go to the bottom of the stack for me. I like experimentation; so bring on Winter, Kingdom and more NLOTH's (title track) and Fez:BB's. But please don't give me a bunch of boring songs to smoke weed to; I gotta listen to this stuff in my car and at work too.

I'd rather have new subtle atmospheric weed songs than Vertigo part 3, Walk on parts 7,8 and 9, and token Edge riff parts 156-3,042.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

I'd rather have new subtle atmospheric weed songs than Vertigo part 3, Walk on parts 7,8 and 9, and token Edge riff parts 156-3,042.