Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

[Zoots]

Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

Well played Layton, very well played! I like how you completely twisted U2's 'lack of balls' approach into a ballsy one! Stay with me on this as I continue...

I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't see how you can say that HTDAAB is "afraid of disappointing the listener". Because, clearly they disappointed you and I bet they knew that going in. Don't you think that's kind of a risk?

That risk is nothing and you know it! Even if some of us here don't wanna admit it, 90s U2 was a departure from their epic, bombastic & 'in your face' style of the 80s! As namkcuR pointed out, with the onset of the 90s they started using subtlety and more prominently of course irony in their music. There was a huge freakin' risk there of alienating a solid fan base built up until 1989. I'm sure overall, there are more U2 fans that prefer the 80s work than the 90s. They started losing fans with Zooropa and more so with Pop. So with ATYCLB, while they may have disappointed 90s fans, that number is nothing compared to the original fan base they regained!

Sometimes in order to grow you have to risk alienating your core fanbase. Jack and Jill War fan were pissed off about JT. Jack and Jill JT fan were confused by AB. Jack and Jill AB fan jumped ship because of Pop. Jack and Jill Pop fan find the last 2 album too safe.

I don't think that's true. Sure, every album pretty much had it's own theme but I don't think they changed their style THAT drastically between albums in the 80s. The contrast is much more when you compare 1991 - 1997 against everything else.

SA is alot of ass kissing to their geek squad of fans.

What are you talking about??? The 'geek squad' fans are still pissed off that there is no Fight Like A Brave, Catholic School Girls Rule or Me & My Friends on Stadium Arcadium! The band hasn't bothered about them and has actually evolved very well in their middle age.

I don't think U2 will ever be slaves to their fanbase like so many other bands are. In that way, I think they're the most independent-minded major band going at the moment.

Is that why they were embarassed by the failure of Pop and reworked (read slaughtered) some of the songs for the Best Of??? Doesn't sound like independent minded souls to me.

 

[J_NP]

Originally posted by namkcuR

You know what, Some people might like COBL better than NYD.

Like Me

 

[KUEFC09U2]

Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

Well played Layton, very well played! I like how you completely twisted U2's 'lack of balls' approach into a ballsy one! Stay with me on this as I continue...



That risk is nothing and you know it! Even if some of us here don't wanna admit it, 90s U2 was a departure from their epic, bombastic & 'in your face' style of the 80s! As namkcuR pointed out, with the onset of the 90s they started using subtlety and more prominently of course irony in their music. There was a huge freakin' risk there of alienating a solid fan base built up until 1989. I'm sure overall, there are more U2 fans that prefer the 80s work than the 90s. They started losing fans with Zooropa and more so with Pop. So with ATYCLB, while they may have disappointed 90s fans, that number is nothing compared to the original fan base they regained!



I don't think that's true. Sure, every album pretty much had it's own theme but I don't think they changed their style THAT drastically between albums in the 80s. The contrast is much more when you compare 1991 - 1997 against everything else.



What are you talking about??? The 'geek squad' fans are still pissed off that there is no Fight Like A Brave, Catholic School Girls Rule or Me & My Friends on Stadium Arcadium! The band hasn't bothered about them and has actually evolved very well in their middle age.



Is that why they were embarassed by the failure of Pop and reworked (read slaughtered) some of the songs for the Best Of??? Doesn't sound like independent minded souls to me.

wooohhooo yet another U2 fan trying to convince us fans of the 00's that we shouldnt think there as good, to me Love and peace or else and fasts cars both take more risks than they did during popmart, why you might ask? well i still feel U2 tried to follow the "brit pop/electro rock" of the 90's with popmart,

but to me fast cars alone is one of the most risky songs of U2's career, and they played it live

 

[onyourkneesboy]

(Yeah, yeah I know, I posted this reply before. So don't bother reminding me...
But this reply is now more relevant than ever considering this thread

Ok, first of: I LOVE this band, and have been loving this been for 20 years now and follow almost every step they make. That why I may sound rough and harsh on a lot of points. But that just because I care so much !!!

Well, here we go:
One can hear and see U2 are now arrived stars. But they should beware of not becoming a huge “listen-how-much-big-hits-we-had-over-the-years”-act and wanting to become everybody’s friend. The music tends to be thrown in the back-seat in favor of becoming the biggest band in the world. There was always something special about U2 and they should guard that more. I’m sorry, but those are the facts.

Although Bono said they want to write and compose as a band again: they did not ! No wonder, Bono was hardly around in the studio! Did his parts afterwards. Edge was doing a lot of composing and mixing etc. on his own. One can really hear: once we have some spare time (apart from saving Africa, shaking hands with politicians, buying large houses, showing up at celeb-friends parties) we’ll write some songs for an album again. So they did not 100 % succeed to write an album remotely close to the quality like UF, JT, Achtung Baby or even the daring Pop-era.
They succeeded on 100% on Achtung Baby! Here on this album there was no clear goal, so all options were open. They hung around as a band. They fought with each other as a band. They talked as a band. And they were struggling as a band to find unknown territory. And they got there! Not to talk about Zooropa! Fantastic! Even POP! U2 very daring and pushing themselves. New ground, new styles. Even if you don’t like this period one must admit it was new. The listener had no clue what they would come up with, while waiting for this albums to be released. Afterwards these songs have the lasting power!
Nowadays with the ATYCLB/HTDAAB-album (era) you already know what to expect. Matured glossy familymen who have everything figured out in life and musically. Obviously they have no more goals and fantasy and are relying on the old U2 sound by lack of inspiration.
U2’s problem always has been: We want to ROCK! Come on guys, you are (thank God!) no Guns and Roses or Bon Jovi!

I always thought U2 is at it’s best on, for them, unknown territory. Like the dance-influences, techno, funk and soul on Achtung Baby, Zooropa and POP! Listen how much percussion is used on AB compared to HTDAAB! AB swings, has hips and feet and sounds multi-dimensional!
HTDAAB therefore sounds one-dimensional and a lot of times flat. But that’s because they want to rock so much! Leave it be boys!! Boy, War, Unforgettable Fire, Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby, Zooropa is not even close to rock but are your best albums/songs ever! Melodic Punk/New Wave/Outtaspace maybe, but not rock! It’s a sound better than rock!!! Bring some experimenting back in! Explore!
I’m not saying HTDAAB is crap but the amount of really great songs is to little. (Except for A Man And A Woman, and Yahweh)

 

[Zoots]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

wooohhooo yet another U2 fan trying to convince us fans of the 00's that we shouldnt think there as good

Where??? Show me where I said that! Quote the part of my post where I said that you shouldn't think that the 00s are good! I was merely responding to the ludicrous suggestion that 00s U2 is ballsy.

but to me fast cars alone is one of the most risky songs of U2's career, and they played it live

By 'most risky', do you mean 'best'? I love Fast Cars to death but don't see how it was a risky move by U2. They've done something similar many times before, esp. with Mysterious Ways.

Actually, it's in songs like Fast Cars, Ground Beneath.., Stateless, Mercy & Levitate that I see the old U2 still alive. Not in the hit songs from the last 2 albums. Even in 'non-hit' album tracks like When I Look and Peace On Earth, I see the old U2 that I've always loved.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

Where??? Show me where I said that! Quote the part of my post where I said that you shouldn't think that the 00s are good! I was merely responding to the ludicrous suggestion that 00s U2 is ballsy.



By 'most risky', do you mean 'best'? I love Fast Cars to death but don't see how it was a risky move by U2. They've done something similar many times before, esp. with Mysterious Ways.

Actually, it's in songs like Fast Cars, Ground Beneath.., Stateless, Mercy & Levitate that I see the old U2 still alive. Not in the hit songs from the last 2 albums. Even in 'non-hit' album tracks like When I Look and Peace On Earth, I see the old U2 that I've always loved.

how peace on earth and when i look are the most pop type tunes i have heard from the band, granted great but very poppy and easy listening, but songs like crumbs, fast cars, love and peace, and even yahweh dont scream "radio" friendly like them 2 IMO

 

[toscano]

If they were really ballsy they'd have put Fast Cars and Mercy on HTDAAB, for ALL markets.

 

[xaviMF22]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

how peace on earth and when i look are the most pop type tunes i have heard from the band, granted great but very poppy and easy listening, but songs like crumbs, fast cars, love and peace, and even yahweh dont scream "radio" friendly like them 2 IMO

yahweh and crumbs have radio friendly written all over.

Love and peace isn't radio friendly, but would have still made a great single.
Too bad U2 didn't have the cojones to make it a single

 

[KUEFC09U2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

yahweh and crumbs have radio friendly written all over.

Love and peace isn't radio friendly, but would have still made a great single.
Too bad U2 didn't have the cojones to make it a single

yahweh and crumbs are no more radio friendly then peace on earth and when i look at the world

 

[KUEFC09U2]

If they were really ballsy they'd have put Fast Cars and Mercy on HTDAAB, for ALL markets.

fast cars was pretty rushed and was first known as xanx and whine as you would know, mercy is totally incomplete

 

[Zoots]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

how peace on earth and when i look are the most pop type tunes i have heard from the band, granted great but very poppy and easy listening, but songs like crumbs, fast cars, love and peace, and even yahweh dont scream "radio" friendly like them 2 IMO

It doesn't matter to me how 'pop' a song is. Do you think I don't like classic pop songs such as say, The Beatles' All My Loving or Abba's Dancing Queen?

My bone to pick with present U2 is that in certain songs, particularly the radio hits of late, they come off as trying too hard to sound epic & huge and consequently fall flat on their face due to a poor lyric or a cliched sentiment. All IMO of course.

Examples: Vertigo sounds great to me except for the 'all of this could be yours' line and the cliched yeah yeahs. COBL is very uplifting and exhilarating (esp. live) except the part where Bono utters 'oh you look so beauuuuuuuuutiful tonight'.. and alas, the song falls flat on it's face like a pancake.

On the other hand, I absolutely love how COBL freakin' takes off with that line 'I'm getting ready to leave the ground...'

In other words, there are definitely elements of these hit songs that I enjoy but I'm not able to relish them fully like I can with their old songs.

I think it's safe to say that namkcuR and others here share this sentiment with me, at least to an extent, and are trying to figure this out in threads such as these.

 

[CPTLCTYGOOFBALL]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

Where??? Show me where I said that! Quote the part of my post where I said that you shouldn't think that the 00s are good! I was merely responding to the ludicrous suggestion that 00s U2 is ballsy.



By 'most risky', do you mean 'best'? I love Fast Cars to death but don't see how it was a risky move by U2. They've done something similar many times before, esp. with Mysterious Ways.

But tell me what's risky about MOFO? Listen to Firestarter by Prodigy, released the year before. U2 weren't leaders with Pop, they were followers.

 

[shaun vox]

and u2 are no leaders with HTDAAB coldplay already released that album with a different name!!!

 

[Zoots]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

But tell me what's risky about MOFO? Listen to Firestarter by Prodigy, released the year before. U2 weren't leaders with Pop, they were followers.

But I'll bet you that the core U2 fan base would not have expected U2 to pull off a Firestarter!

I'll bet both 80s fans (lovers of earnest, political & passionate U2) as well as Achtung/Zooropa fans (lovers of the cool new U2 sound drenched in self mocking irony) got shocked by a song like Mofo!

Heck.. I've been a fan since Achtung Baby. When I first listened to Mofo, I was like

In other words... risky, ballsy, adventurous, unexpected... and so on.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

and u2 are no leaders with HTDAAB coldplay already released that album with a different name!!!

you will find coldplays came after U2's

 

[KUEFC09U2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

But I'll bet you that the core U2 fan base would not have expected U2 to pull off a Firestarter!

I'll bet both 80s fans (lovers of earnest, political & passionate U2) as well as Achtung/Zooropa fans (lovers of the cool new U2 sound drenched in self mocking irony) got shocked by a song like Mofo!

Heck.. I've been a fan since Achtung Baby. When I first listened to Mofo, I was like

In other words... risky, ballsy, adventurous, unexpected... and so on.

hence why they lost alot of fans with both achtung and pop, the "core" U2 fans of old didnt like it, simple as

 

[KUEFC09U2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

It doesn't matter to me how 'pop' a song is. Do you think I don't like classic pop songs such as say, The Beatles' All My Loving or Abba's Dancing Queen?

My bone to pick with present U2 is that in certain songs, particularly the radio hits of late, they come off as trying too hard to sound epic & huge and consequently fall flat on their face due to a poor lyric or a cliched sentiment. All IMO of course.

Examples: Vertigo sounds great to me except for the 'all of this could be yours' line and the cliched yeah yeahs. COBL is very uplifting and exhilarating (esp. live) except the part where Bono utters 'oh you look so beauuuuuuuuutiful tonight'.. and alas, the song falls flat on it's face like a pancake.

On the other hand, I absolutely love how COBL freakin' takes off with that line 'I'm getting ready to leave the ground...'

In other words, there are definitely elements of these hit songs that I enjoy but I'm not able to relish them fully like I can with their old songs.

I think it's safe to say that namkcuR and others here share this sentiment with me, at least to an extent, and are trying to figure this out in threads such as these.

what but the pop songs werent trying to hard? to me they where

 

[shaun vox]

lol i know!!
u2 knew coldplay were selling alot of album with that kind of sound and they went for that!!u2 are not origoinal anymore, coldplay are doing it, Keane are doing ETC!!(of course coldplay is the one trying to sound like u2)

 

[Zoots]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

hence why they lost alot of fans with both achtung and pop, the "core" U2 fans of old didnt like it, simple as

okay... I agree with you here! lol.

what but the pop songs werent trying to hard? to me they where

'pop' does not equal 'trying too hard'.

whether it's pop, rock, soul, jazz whatever.. the band could come off as trying too hard.

 

[toscano]

you will find coldplays came after U2's

depends which album he's referring to (is there a difference form one to the next ? ), you will find Coldplay were releasing albums before HTDAAB was released

 

[CPTLCTYGOOFBALL]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

But I'll bet you that the core U2 fan base would not have expected U2 to pull off a Firestarter!

I'll bet both 80s fans (lovers of earnest, political & passionate U2) as well as Achtung/Zooropa fans (lovers of the cool new U2 sound drenched in self mocking irony) got shocked by a song like Mofo!

Heck.. I've been a fan since Achtung Baby. When I first listened to Mofo, I was like

In other words... risky, ballsy, adventurous, unexpected... and so on.

So the way to spring new sounds on your fans is to listen to the radio the year before you release the album and try to emulate the sound of whats hip? That's called being a follower

 

[KUEFC09U2]

depends which album he's referring to (is there a difference form one to the next ? ), you will find Coldplay were releasing albums before HTDAAB was released

he was referring to x and y versus bomb

 

[KUEFC09U2]

lol i know!!
u2 knew coldplay were selling alot of album with that kind of sound and they went for that!!u2 are not origoinal anymore, coldplay are doing it, Keane are doing ETC!!(of course coldplay is the one trying to sound like u2)

not really considering U2 really "invented" this sound during JT onwards, so..... how can people blame they for tyring to sound like themselves? speically if we class UF as being "experimental", then really we have only had 3 U2 albums that have actually sounded like U2,

 

[toscano]

he was referring to x and y versus bomb

he was ?

 

[KUEFC09U2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Taking A Break From U2/U2's Biggest Musical Weakness

okay... I agree with you here! lol.






'pop' does not equal 'trying too hard'.

whether it's pop, rock, soul, jazz whatever.. the band could come off as trying too hard.

my point entirley, so why are they now only getting balmed for trying to hard when really, they should have been blamed for trying to hard in all there albums?

 

[KUEFC09U2]

he was ?

judging by his reply yes

 

[shaun vox]

 

[KUEFC09U2]

well lets face it shaun you come up with the same sort of reply everytime, its not hard to judge what your going to say now is it

 

[CPTLCTYGOOFBALL]

lol i know!!
u2 knew coldplay were selling alot of album with that kind of sound and they went for that!!u2 are not origoinal anymore, coldplay are doing it, Keane are doing ETC!!(of course coldplay is the one trying to sound like u2)

But Coldplay's "kind of sound" has been compared to U2's since they've existed. So, after spending years cultivating their own sound and influencing the next wave of bands U2 are supposed to change their music because those very same bands are playing "U2ish" music?



Bizarre.

You should be on a Coldplay message board complaining-They need their own sound!

 

[shaun vox]