Shuttlecock XXII: Summer of Laz

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Great conversation going here.

I personally love Mercy. It evokes both the anthemic nature of JT(and albums thereafter) and the atmospheric, abstract nature of UF. It's the latter I think that resonates so much to some of us. 21st century U2 works so hard to polish everything, overthink and overcook everything, but the 2004 Mercy sounds messy and rough around the edges and unpolished and spontaneous and spirited and inspired and beautiful. The emotions are allowed to breathe. Their attempt during 360 to condense it into a tidier, more polished 4 minute pop song eliminated so much of what made it great. I don't know if it's the best song they've done since Pop, but it's probably in the top 20 if not top 10.

I do think the history of the song is a bit confounding though. I for one have always been skeptical about the story of Bono handing a CD to a fan. I remember, before Bomb came out, a working copy of it that belonged to Edge was misplaced, in France I think, and the band put the cops on it. But I'm supposed to believe Bono just handed over a copy of an unreleased album with an extra non-album track on it?

And then there's the issue of why it's never been released. It's one thing to decide not to put it on the album, however wrong you might think that decision was. But if it was really that close to being on the album, why wasn't it ever released as a b-side, or a bonus track, or a stand-alone single, or a future album? Bono called it the best b-side you've ever heard, but it was NEVER A B-SIDE. And if he really thinks the song is that good, why hasn't it ever seen the light of day? Perhaps we will never know the answers.

As for lyrics, I've said this before - if I dig the music, they lyrics could be la la la da da da for all I care. I mean, I appreciate, love, and find great meaning in great lyrics as much as any of you, but the music comes first, always, and if the music is great, there's no lyric bad enough to sink it. I know some of you don't agree with me on that, but that's my feeling.
 
Great conversation going here.

I personally love Mercy. It evokes both the anthemic nature of JT(and albums thereafter) and the atmospheric, abstract nature of UF. It's the latter I think that resonates so much to some of us. 21st century U2 works so hard to polish everything, overthink and overcook everything, but the 2004 Mercy sounds messy and rough around the edges and unpolished and spontaneous and spirited and inspired and beautiful. The emotions are allowed to breathe. Their attempt during 360 to condense it into a tidier, more polished 4 minute pop song eliminated so much of what made it great. I don't know if it's the best song they've done since Pop, but it's probably in the top 20 if not top 10.

I do think the history of the song is a bit confounding though. I for one have always been skeptical about the story of Bono handing a CD to a fan. I remember, before Bomb came out, a working copy of it that belonged to Edge was misplaced, in France I think, and the band put the cops on it. But I'm supposed to believe Bono just handed over a copy of an unreleased album with an extra non-album track on it?

And then there's the issue of why it's never been released. It's one thing to decide not to put it on the album, however wrong you might think that decision was. But if it was really that close to being on the album, why wasn't it ever released as a b-side, or a bonus track, or a stand-alone single, or a future album? Bono called it the best b-side you've ever heard, but it was NEVER A B-SIDE. And if he really thinks the song is that good, why hasn't it ever seen the light of day? Perhaps we will never know the answers.

As for lyrics, I've said this before - if I dig the music, they lyrics could be la la la da da da for all I care. I mean, I appreciate, love, and find great meaning in great lyrics as much as any of you, but the music comes first, always, and if the music is great, there's no lyric bad enough to sink it. I know some of you don't agree with me on that, but that's my feeling.

For maybe the first time ever, I agree with every single word of your post :laugh:
 
Music is subjective and all, but "atmospheric" and "abstract" are two words that would never in a million years come to my mind when thinking of Mercy. Just because it's 6.5 minutes or however long doesn't mean it has a bunch of underlying substance to it. I really can't even be bothered to listen to it, but it's a super conventional song structure isn't it? And just your basic guitar-drums-bass instrumentation? And your typical Bono sloganeering, which is still sloganeering no matter how much gusto he throws into it. It's banal in a way that makes it incapable of evoking anything.
 
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This is utter garbage. As is the song.

The idea that this is their best song since Pop, let alone EASILY their best song, is laughable.

The weedkiller lyric is atrocious. The drop in his voice is awful.

It's a nice idea that doesn't fullfil it's promise and the level it's held up to here is utterly ridiculous.


You’ve got some weird hangup with this track, maybe the rest of us should just back away slowly because you don’t sound rational. Cobbler laid out a thought-out reasoning for why it’s appreciated by a lot of us and you’re just stomping your feet yelling “NONONONONO!!”
 
I'm just glad Headache has found somebody to fight with other than me.
 
Music is subjective and all, but "atmospheric" and "abstract" are two words that would never in a million years come to my mind when thinking of Mercy. Just because it's 6.5 minutes or however long doesn't mean it has a bunch of underlying substance to it. I really can't even be bothered to listen to it, but it's a super conventional song structure isn't it? And just your basic guitar-drums-bass instrumentation? And your typical Bono sloganeering, which is still sloganeering no matter how much gusto he throws into it. It's banal in a way that makes it incapable of evoking anything.
Pretty much this
 
Not thinking it's as good as some of us do, fair enough, I can totally understand that. But thinking it's "utter garbage" is one of the stupidest things I've read in here.

But, I don't read too much into your opinion given your first reaction reaction to Stand Up Comedy, one of their very worst songs, was that it was so good it aroused you.

As for rankings...

Mercy
The Ground Beneath Her Feet
City of Blinding Lights
Kite
Cedars of Lebanon
When I Look at the World
Moment of Surrender
Fez - Being Born
One Step Closer
Crumbs From Your Table

Bit of nostalgia affecting these. Troubles is the only song from SoI that makes the shortlist, although five from SoE do, which makes me overall pretty damn happy with their latest album.
Yes I'm the only one who's ever had embarrassing reactions on first listens. Do we reeeeeeeally want to go down that road?


The pedestal that this song is placed on clearly brings it further down, for me. Of course there are worse songs.

That said... there is absolutely nothing remarkable about this song. It's a nice idea that rambles on and on and never takes off And that this side of the forum, which shits on post 90s Bono for engaging in nothing but banal platitudes, adores a song that is NOTHING but banal platitudes is utterly baffling. I quite simply don't get it.

I hear this song and I hear some great choruses and the potential to be something great. I also hear a horrible bridge, and an even worse "pre-chorus." There are a few gem lines, but it's mostly just Bono just reciting platitude after platitude. It is lyrically the most post 90s u2 don't there is. But because it's taken on this mythological standing, it's cool.

But hey, I'm just a guy who had a bad opinion on the first listen to a new album. So my opinion is basically shit. Because nobody in here has ever made huge statements about albums or songs they now shit on during a first listen before. Nope. Not here.
 
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You’ve got some weird hangup with this track, maybe the rest of us should just back away slowly because you don’t sound rational. Cobbler laid out a thought-out reasoning for why it’s appreciated by a lot of us and you’re just stomping your feet yelling “NONONONONO!!”
Oh, like the post I made prior? The one he called rubbish and said every opinion I had was wrong? It's almost as if my calling his post garbage was in response to his calling mine another word for garbage!

Whatever.

I get emotional over this hanging turd of a song. Sue me.

mercy.jpg
 
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I'm going to approach the top 10 question a little differently.

If I had to put together a traditional 11 track U2 album comprised of 21st century material, it would look like this:

1. Beautiful Day
2. City of Blinding Lights
3. Kite
4. Moment of Surrender
5. Fez-Being Born
6. Stateless
7. The Ground Beneath Her Feet
8. Electrical Storm
9. When I Look at the World
10. Mercy
11. The Troubles

Doesn't flow especially well, but it's tough to get all these eras to cohere properly. The NLOTH material is especially challenging. Still, more fun to do than a top 10.
 
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I gave up on multiple attempts to do just that, around the mid 2000s, precisely because it can't cohere. I mean you could sort of force 1999-2004 or so to be an 'era', but at this point there's no way to make it feel like an album.
 
Fucker had it coming.

Marsupials, think they own the place.
 
I'm going to approach the top 10 question a little differently.

If I had to put together a traditional 11 track U2 album comprised of 21st century material, it would look like this:

1. Beautiful Day
2. City of Blinding Lights
3. Kite
4. Moment of Surrender
5. Fez-Being Born
6. Stateless
7. The Ground Beneath Her Feet
8. Electrical Storm
9. When I Look at the World
10. Mercy
11. The Troubles

Doesn't flow especially well, but it's tough to get all these eras to cohere properly. The NLOTH material is especially challenging. Still, more fun to do than a top 10.

I'll bite.

1. The Blackout
2. Vertigo
3. No Line on the Horizon
4. Love is Bigger
5. Beautiful Day
6. Moment of Surrender
7. Fez-Being Born
8. The Ground Beneath Her Feet
9. Mercy
10. When I Look at the World
11. The Troubles
12. Kite (Vertigo Tour version)

Lot of songs I like more than some songs here missing, but this is a good compromise.
 
Quick album attempt:

City Of Blinding Lights
Invisible
No Line On The Horizon
Every Breaking Wave
Beautiful Day

The Ground Beneath Her Feet
Love Is Bigger Than Anything In Its Way
When I Look at the World
This Is Where You Can Reach Me Now
Mercy
13 (There Is A Light)
 
I gave up on multiple attempts to do just that, around the mid 2000s, precisely because it can't cohere. I mean you could sort of force 1999-2004 or so to be an 'era', but at this point there's no way to make it feel like an album.

I've said it before, it's silly to refer to 00s U2 as though it's all one era. I see 2000-2006(MDH, ATYCLB, 90-00, HTDAAB, U218) as one era and 2007-onwards as another(NLOTH, SOI, SOE), one which is probably coming to an end tbh.
 
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Great conversation going here.


There has been more good conversation here in the past 24 hours, than in the forum that is actually dedicated for this type of conversation over the past 24 months!

Determining a top 10 for this century is challenging. Mine would likely be NLOTH heavy, with one-off appearances from other albums. Moment of Surrender is in my overall top ten, such is my adoration for it.
 
Nothing post Pop is in my top 10. Heck, only one song post Rattle & Hum is in my top 10.
 
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