Random Music Talk LXVI: This is not a rutabaga song...this is CELERY SALTY CELERY!!

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Fuck, his review of that goes for like 16 minutes too.

Which is ironic, because that's about how far I got into the album before turning it off.
 
OK Computer - B-
Souljaboytellem.com - A-


He's not a prog rock fan. Or a snob.

More importantly, where are you getting his anti-90's hip hop thing from? Guy didn't like NWA but he sure gave good ratings to Wu-Tang, Notorious BIG, Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Nas.

Def had an East Coast Rap bias though.
 
More importantly, where are you getting his anti-90's hip hop thing from? Guy didn't like NWA but he sure gave good ratings to Wu-Tang, Notorious BIG, Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Nas.

Not as good as they deserve IMO.

There's nothing snobby about liking the platinum-selling OK Computer either. Unless you mean hating Soulja Boy is snobby, in which case you're speaking about basically everyone online.
 
It was regarding Soulja Boy, and to point out that he doesn't turn his nose up at pop radio, even if it's something that a lot of people hate. How does underappreciating Radiohead discredit him? You can go fishing through any critic's reviews for something you don't agree with.
 
Liking Soulja Boy does scream HEY LISTEN TO ME I HAVE AN UNIQUE OPINION I'M POST-IRONIC. His rationale is horrible too.
 
Not really. I named off several scenes he undervalued, not just one album he dramatically overvalued.

The "yawn" applies to us discussing Christgau again though.
 
It's a bad day for laz when it's me who has to back him up.

But I grew up reading Christgau's reviews like they were The Word of Music God. As I got older I certainly developed my own opinions but I always knew I'd get a thoughtful, intelligent, quality and often witty review (actual wit, not Pitchfork snarkiness that passes for wit), whether I agreed with him or not. I don't agree with him on George Harrison or Radiohead (obviously) but I don't see how you can read half the reviews out there today and even compare the writing or musical knowledge to Christgau's - if you've ever read him regularly, which I get most of you have not. The fact that I can't even really name another music reviewer I follow and respect today says something (maybe it says I don't read the right things, I don't know). The quality of reviewing seems to me to have changed a lot, and that goes for books and film as well.

That said, there are excellent writers and music critics right here in this forum who I respect a lot more than most of the so-called critics out there. And I'm going to like what I like regardless of what anyone tells me, and I know that's true of all of you, too.

That is all.
 
Well, things have certainly come to a head on Days of Our Lives. There is a woman, whose husband hit her head and got dementia. She kept telling him that they were together but he didn't remember. About a week later, his twin brother, who had been holding a very slutty looking nun hostage at gunpoint for most of the week for no apparent reason, burst into their apartment and knocked his brother (the husband) out. The woman, at first, was shocked. But then the brother convinced her that they were in fact made for each other. So the two of them tied the husband up, bound and gagged him, and hid him in a closet, and they made our for about a week and a half. But there was trouble on the rocks. Eventually the woman caught onto the fact the brother was lying, and she tried to escape today, but he started manhandling her. Then the husband burst in and started fighting with his twin brother in a fight so real, so convincing in its violence, that I was hooked. He punched his brother in the face (missing by at least a metre) and then the woman clocked him over the head (again missing, hitting him in the upper back) with a plastic prop resembling a large wrench, at least 40cm in length.

Gripping television.
 
And I will admit that Straight Outta Compton (album and track) is one of the best things any hip-hop act has come out with. Badass as fuck.

:yes:

I feel invincible when I rap along to it in my car. Eazy-E's verse in that song is out-motherfucking-standing.
 
Well, things have certainly come to a head on Days of Our Lives. There is a woman, whose husband hit her head and got dementia. She kept telling him that they were together but he didn't remember. About a week later, his twin brother, who had been holding a very slutty looking nun hostage at gunpoint for most of the week for no apparent reason, burst into their apartment and knocked his brother (the husband) out. The woman, at first, was shocked. But then the brother convinced her that they were in fact made for each other. So the two of them tied the husband up, bound and gagged him, and hid him in a closet, and they made our for about a week and a half. But there was trouble on the rocks. Eventually the woman caught onto the fact the brother was lying, and she tried to escape today, but he started manhandling her. Then the husband burst in and started fighting with his twin brother in a fight so real, so convincing in its violence, that I was hooked. He punched his brother in the face (missing by at least a metre) and then the woman clocked him over the head (again missing, hitting him in the upper back) with a plastic prop resembling a large wrench, at least 40cm in length.

Gripping television.



The Soup La Madrastra - YouTube
 
Beat me to it with the "Soup" clip, I see :p.

cobl's "Days of Our Lives" post suddenly makes me miss the soap I used to watch with my mom, "All My Children". It must've been quite interesting/fun to be a soap opera writer and come up with half the batshit crazy storylines they did.

Claim: Usher's 8701 is a really fucking great r&b album. So many great songs - U Remind Me, U Got it Bad, U-Turn, Separated, U Don't Have to Call, I Don't Know.

Confessions was good too. I miss old Usher.

That is a lot of "U" related titles. Wow.

Agreed on "old Usher"-I used to love his songs "You Make Me Wanna" and "My Way" back when I was a teenager (and I thought he looked rather good in the video for the latter).

And I'm going to like what I like regardless of what anyone tells me, and I know that's true of all of you, too.

:up:

I don't think I've ever read anything by this Christgau guy (or if I have, I stumbled upon it). I don't think there's any specific critic I follow regularly-I just enjoy checking out opinions from critics or your average person at random, pretty much.
 
I was going to reply to posts from Danny Boy and LeMel, but this stupid Christifrau shitstorm has really put me off. Instead, I'm just going to echo IWB's sentiment of can we move the fuck on already?
 
So I have this friend in NY who I've known for 20 years. He's now 75. He was big-time into the music of his generation, was at Woodstock and a lot of the legendary shows of his day, like CSNY at the Filmore East, etc. And he's a total NYC Seinfeld character.

Anyway, he loves when I turn him on to new music. The guy still has great taste: his favorite thing I've turned him on to during the last decade is Sigur Ros.

So he calls me last night and says, in his thick NY accent, "Oh my God. I was flipping through the channels and Austin City Limits came on. So I put the remote control down and sat back to relax because you know they have some very good things on that program. And, oh my God. You cannot believe how bad this band was. The worst thing I've ever heard in my life. I don't know how they got on TV. The worst, I'm telling you, it hurt my ears. It was so painful. I thought, who do you think you are? You are the most inauthentic thing I've ever seen in my life. Can you guess who it was?"

Me: No clue. Give me something to work with.

Him: Come on, I know you can guess. Just guess.

Me: Um...(pulling the first name that came to me because it was somebody he sat next to on an airplane once)....Justin Bieber?

Him: No. THE FRAY. The worst, worst, worst band I've ever seen in my life. Who do they think they are? Really? Who do they think they are?

Me: They think they open for U2, that's who.

Him: NOOOOO!!! That's not possible. Is it?

I guess you had to be there.
 
I was going to reply to posts from Danny Boy and LeMel, but this stupid Christifrau shitstorm has really put me off. Instead, I'm just going to echo IWB's sentiment of can we move the fuck on already?

Seems like everyone had moved on until this post. Just sayin
 
I was going to reply to posts from Danny Boy and LeMel, but this stupid Christifrau shitstorm has really put me off. Instead, I'm just going to echo IWB's sentiment of can we move the fuck on already?

I don't see what the big deal is - it's just a discussion like any others but I'm happy to move on. It's the first time I've ever voiced my opinion on Christgau. We usually have many discussions going on at once so anybody can feel free to join in or ignore as they please.
 
That. Imagine how much of a shit show this place would be if everyone complained every time someone talked about something they weren't interested in discussing
 
Have I mentioned that I find London Calling less than perfect? Because we could talk about that again if you prefer.
 
Before we move on, I get the sense that not everyone knows who christgau is. Just a little to fill you in off the top of my head

Robert Christgau (born April 18, 1942) is an American essayist, music journalist, and self-proclaimed "Dean of American Rock Critics".[2][3]

One of the earliest professional rock critics, Christgau is known for his terse capsule reviews, published since 1969 in his Consumer Guide columns. He also spent 37 years as music editor for The Village Voice, during which time he created the annual Pazz & Jop poll.

Early life

Christgau grew up in New York City, where he says he became a rock and roll fan when disc jockey Alan Freed moved to the city in 1954.[4] He left New York for four years to attend Dartmouth College, graduating in 1962 with a B.A. in English. While at college Christgau's musical interests turned to jazz, but he quickly returned to rock after moving back to New York.
Career

He initially wrote short stories, before giving up fiction in 1964 to become a sportswriter, and later, a police reporter for the Newark Star-Ledger.[5] Christgau became a freelance writer after a story he wrote about the death of a woman in New Jersey was published by New York magazine. He was asked to take over the dormant music column at Esquire, which he began writing in early 1967. After Esquire discontinued the column, Christgau moved to The Village Voice in 1969, and he also worked as a college professor.

In early 1972, he accepted a full-time job as music critic for Newsday. Christgau returned to the Village Voice in 1974 as music editor. He remained there until August 2006, when he was fired shortly after the paper's acquisition by New Times Media.[3] Two months later, Christgau became a contributing editor at Rolling Stone. Late in 2007, Christgau was fired by Rolling Stone,[6] although he continued to work for the magazine for another three months. Starting with the March 2008 issue, he joined Blender, where he was listed as "senior critic" for three issues and then "contributing editor."[7] Christgau had been a regular contributor to Blender before he joined Rolling Stone. He continued to write for Blender until the magazine ceased publication in March 2009.

Christgau has also written frequently for Playboy, Spin, and Creem.

He previously taught during the formative years of the California Institute of the Arts. As of 2005, he was also an adjunct professor in the Clive Davis Department of Recorded Music at New York University.
Consumer Guide

Christgau is perhaps best known for his Consumer Guide columns, which have been published on a more-or-less monthly basis since 1969, in the Village Voice, as well as a brief period at Newsday. In December 2006, the column moved online to MSN Music, initially appearing every other month, before switching to a monthly schedule in June 2007. In its original format, the Consumer Guide consisted of 18 to 20 single-paragraph album reviews, each of which was given a letter grade ranging from A+ to E-. "Christgau's blurbs", writes Jody Rosen, "are like no one else's – dense with ideas and allusions, first-person confessions and invective, highbrow references and slang."[3]

In 1990, Christgau changed the format of the Consumer Guide; it now contains six to eight reviews graded upper-B+ or higher, one "Dud of the Month" review graded B or lower, and three lists: Honorable Mention (B+ albums deemed not worthy of full-paragraph reviews), Choice Cuts (excellent tracks on un-recommended albums), and Duds. For several years, there were two annual Consumer Guide columns which strayed from this format: The Turkey Shoot (typically published the week of Thanksgiving), which consisted entirely of reviews graded B- or lower, and a Christmas-season roundup of compilations and reissues, mostly graded A or A+. Both have been discontinued.

He also uses ratings such as "neither" (denoted by a frowny face), which "may impress once or twice with consistent craft or an arresting track or two. Then it won't" and a "choice cut" (denoted by a pair of scissors), which, as noted above, "is a good song on an album that isn't worth your time or money."[8]

Other ratings including 1–3 stars, being various versions of "honorable mention."[8]

Lou Reed recorded a tirade against Christgau in his 1978 live album, Take No Prisoners: "Critics. What does Robert Christgau do in bed? I mean, is he a toe fucker? Man, anal retentive, A Consumer's Guide to Rock, what a moron: 'A Study' by, y'know, Robert Christgau. Nice little boxes: B-PLUS. Can you imagine working for a fucking year, and you get a B+ from some asshole in The Village Voice?”[9] Christgau rated the album C+ and wrote in his review, “I thank Lou for pronouncing my name right.”[10] Similar angst came from band Sonic Youth in their song Kill Yr Idols (at the time known as "I Killed Christgau With My Big Fucking Dick"), in which they sing "I don't know why / You wanna impress Christgau / Ah let that shit die / And find out the new goal"; Christgau responded by saying "Idolization is for rock stars, even rock stars manqué like these impotent bohos—critics just want a little respect. So if it's not too hypersensitive of me, I wasn't flattered to hear my name pronounced right, not on this particular title track."[11]

On July 1, 2010, Christgau announced in the introduction to his Consumer Guide column that the July 2010 installment would be his last on MSN.

"Barring miracles unlikely to ensue, this is the final edition of Christgau's Consumer Guide, which MSN has decided no longer suits its editorial purposes. The CG has generally required a seven-days-a-week time commitment over the 41 years I've written it, and I'm grateful to MSN for paying me what the work was worth over the three-and-a-half years I published it here. But though I always enjoyed the work, work it was, and I've long been aware there were other things I could be doing with my ears. So while I have every intention of keeping up with popular music as it evolves, being less encyclopedic about it will come as a relief as well as a loss". Robert Christgau. MSN July 2010.[12]

On November 22 of that year, Christgau launched a blog on MSN, "Expert Witness", which would only feature reviews of albums that he had graded B+ or higher, since those albums "are the gut and backbone of my musical pleasure;" the writing of reviews for which are "so rewarding psychologically that I'm happy to do it at blogger's rates."[13]
Pazz & Jop

In 1971, Christgau inaugurated the annual Pazz & Jop music poll. The results are published in the Village Voice every February, and compile "top ten" lists submitted by music critics across the nation. Throughout Christgau's career at the Voice, every poll was accompanied by a lengthy Christgau essay analyzing the results, and pondering the year's overall musical output. The Voice has continued the feature, despite Christgau's dismissal, and although he no longer oversees the poll, Christgau continues to vote in it.[14]
Style and tastes

Christgau names Louis Armstrong, Thelonious Monk, Chuck Berry, The Beatles, and The New York Dolls as his top five artists of all time.[1] In music critic circles, he was an early supporter of hip hop and the riot grrrl movements. In the 1980s, Christgau was a fervent booster of Afro-pop, a stance that alienated him from some in the critical community, as he seemed insufficiently interested in American and British rock music. In the 1990s, however, Christgau's interest in indie rock seemed to increase.

Christgau readily admits to disliking the musical genres heavy metal,[1] art rock, progressive rock, bluegrass, gospel, Irish folk, and jazz fusion,[15] but in rare instances has recommended albums in most of these genres.

In December 1980, Christgau provoked angry responses from Voice readers when his column approvingly quoted his wife Carola Dibbell's reaction to the murder of John Lennon: "Why is it always Bobby Kennedy or John Lennon? Why isn't it Richard Nixon or Paul McCartney?"[16]

Slate music critic Jody Rosen describes Christgau's writing as "often maddening, always thought-provoking... With Pauline Kael, Christgau is arguably one of the two most important American mass-culture critics of the second half of the 20th century. … All rock critics working today, at least the ones who want to do more than rewrite PR copy, are in some sense Christgauians."[3]
 
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