financeguy said:
When Palestinian terrorists blow up buses in places such as Tel Aviv, killing as many as a dozen people at a time, I view it as an immoral act. I don't put that forward as some kind of new and higher moral insight on my part - practically any sane person will accept that bombing a bus and killing a dozen or two of its passengers is evil.
Or will they?
It turns out that the Israel government and its advocates regularly justify actions such as blowing up buses as 'self defense', 'a proportionate response', etc.
Today Israeli airstrikes blew up a bus, killing as many as 15 or 18 Lebanese civilians, depending on reports.
The great moral error of the Israeli government is its proposition that all acts carried out to allegedly defend the Israeli state are in and of themselves moral. The rest of the world is supposed to agree to that questionable proposition and to waive any other moral considerations.
Tragically, the US does buy into this questionable morality, sends an endless supply of weaponry to the Israeli state, and shields it diplomatically at the UN and elsewhere. Others, such as the spineless EU, remain silent in the face of current atrocities.
I cannot credit your statement that actions of terror-supporting governments (or indeed 'governments', in the case of Hamas) are greated by silence, as we have had numerous threads on here dealing with Hamas, the Iranian regime, Syria, etc.
As for the view that merely pointing rockets at a state is, in and of itself, an act of war, this is the strangest definition of an act of war I have ever heard. For many years, the US and the Soviet Union had rockets pointing at each other - no-one seriously argued that either side was committing an act of war against the other.
Very true. And the US have just voted against another UN resolution against Israel. Which means the UN can´t do nothing to try and easy the situation diplomatically.
I´m sure Cheney and his friends are happy that the oil price is expected to go over $80/ barrel.
On another note - I don´t really understand NBCs view, or the view of other conservatives - and again, you can see in this thread that it is the Bush-supporters who also support Israel´s aggressions.
It is comparable to Saddam invading Kuwait. It makes no difference to the aggression itself if Isreal is a democracy on paper and Iraq was a dictatorship.
If you attack a country, you attack a country. If you fight against terrorism, you fight against terrorism. Period. One would think that some people have learned their lesson - but they didn´t want to learn it in the first place.
Israel had no right to attack Lebanon. There were democratic elections. And Hezbollah was elected, so they are put into power by the people. Indeed, maybe Lebanon could have been an example of democracy for Iraq. Or the other way round? Iraq an example for Lebanon? Ooops no... a lil´ too much civil war there.
Yes, Hezbollah is an aggressive terror organization. They should have been disarmed long time ago.
But again, this strike does NOT fight terror. This military tactic is crystal clear to Israel, the U.S. and everyone else involved. You just don´t go around to drop a few bombs on you enemies´airport and yeah, lets include a bus so we have some civilian casualities so Israelis feel that they have had their REVENGE in civilian "casualities" too. The word casuality alone is wrong. The Israelis bomb this bus on PURPOSE.
All this way of thinking is ILL and SICK and far off from religion. This act makes the Israelis just as bad terrorists as their enemies.
It is not about defense. The other side will always say we´re defending ourselves. The Hezbollah will say we´re defending ourselves against the aggressor Israel that has occupied our land waaaaay back when.
I invite you to open your eyes and see this bullshit for what it is.
Israel´s leaders feel so strong with its nuclear devices, with all the support from the U.S. They are killing people. The Hezbollah leaders feel so strong with the support coming from Syria and countless individuals who fight for them underground. They are killing people.
In the name of their religion, in the name of their country, in the name of their society, in the name of revenge.
And the U.S. supports it! (Well, what did we expect). Like always, the U.S. will support a little nice war in another region (faaaaar from homebase), especially if it is as stabile as the Near East, Hell, maybe we´re all lucky and can sell more arms! And use more oil for the planes and tanks! And get the oil prices higher! After all, who cares about NBC´s gas bill
- except of Venezuela, maybe.
Oh yes, the U.S. has voted the other members of the Security Council down. Because, you know, they are always wrong.. they don´t get it, do they, when Israel or the US are attacking they call it defense
Or pre-emptive strike, haha.
A little telephone call from the Israeli government to Bush: Yea cowboy, is it ok if we also bomb Syria a little? Bush: Hell yeah! Great idea! Lebanon is to weak anyway, but Syria,.. yeah go ahead, let´s create another conflict in the region that can last for a decade! I will support you, you will need more arms my dear Jewish friends!
That´s just the business side of it, mind you.