Bono’s young voice vs. older voice

[corianderstem]

This is not what Ali says.

boom TISH!

 

[PhilsFan]

2.)His voice is thin now.

I just don't see how you arrive at that, sorry. He hits the higher notes longer, cleaner and with a good deal of power. The real stretching and straining took place on JT and LT when he often screamed and still didn't hit the notes right.

Don't get me wrong, there are days when I prefer JT tour to every other era, and his voice certainly had some qualities then that it lacks now. Not really tangibles, just something about it.

Where I get off the boat is when people claim his voice is thin now.

I don't hear too much straining in A Man And A Woman. Its not really a style of song Bono had ever sung before, and its not one of my favorites, but its a great vocal. I am perplexed by that as an example.

Take Away point.

Even if you want to use argument #1 until you are blue in the face, if to your ears Bono really sounds like a different singer entirely in the early 80s, great.

But do not try and use argument #1 as a way to make argument #2 and say his voice is "thin" today. It is objectively not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpairKs4_ts

Thin. Listen to the first couple verses. That's what I mean.

"Objectively not?" Get over yourself.

 

[U2387]

I'm not. His voice changed. This I think we can agree on. But just because it changed that statement in and of itself doesn't say what it changed to - it could have changed to anything. However in his case I believe the changes are do to his voice aging prematurely. The "thin" thing didn't happen overnight. I would not say his late 80s voice was "thin" but definitely through the 90s and the 2000s its developed that quality to it. Don't really no how else to describe it to you...It just sounds like there is not as much there to it when he sings in a higher register. You will not like me for saying this but I think he (Bono) notices this too and that is why many songs going as far back as "Baby Face" have the double vocal track, low voice mixed over higher voice, to fill it out a bit more. This would not have made sense or sounded right with the voice he had during the War era on songs like "Drowning Man" - You really think, objectively, he has anywhere near the power now that he did on that song? Or what about "Magnificent" vs. "Pride"? Yes, he's hitting similar notes on songs like "Magnificent" or OOTS but his voice is qualifiedly different now and there is just less there to it. Less power, not as full. I think you are hearing the same thing I am but you would not describe it with the terms I am using.

Let me clear one thing up. I won't "not like you" for anything. We're having an intelligent discussion here and both of us are being reasonable, as is everyone else in this thread. I sometimes come off as touchy, and I'm working on that, but honestly, I appreciate the discussion!

Well, the double tracking and technology was not too advanced in the early 1980s for one, and U2 definitely got more complex in sound with AB and Zooropa. That more than anything else probably accounted for some of the double tracking and studio tricks. I will defer to people who know more than me about studios, but I don't think double tracks are all over the place on recent U2 albums. Besides, songs like Sometimes, NLOTH, MOS often improved live and there were no double tracks there.

We don't know what it changed to is exactly the point I am making.

I just feel that when we look at the eras as they have progressed, we arrive at a thick, powerful voice today. I know what you mean by thin, and I am not confused over what is thin versus what is straining.

To my ears, the "thin" argument applied during Popmart and to a much greater extent, Elevation. Not so much between 2003 and today. A lot of Bono's power has returned.

Does he sound exactly like he did in the 80s? No. In fact, though many here think I am a Bono 2010 voice nut to the exclusion of all else, there was just something to his tone that I can't really place that was unique to the mid 80s. I miss that. There was just something to his tone that I can't really place that was ENTIRELY UNIQUE to Zoo TV and I miss that too!

Is some power gone? Who knows, very well could be. I don't think there is a way to really quantify it and compare the numbers like baseball stats.

Magnificent vs Pride

Drowning Man vs Today

We don't know. Has Bono gotten into the studio and tried to replicate Pride with his 2010 voice? Drowning Man?

All I know is Bono has been singing Pride live the closest to the studio version he ever has in the last few years. Listen to the R&H version, he's not holding the chorus like he is now, and the power in the chorus that makes the studio version soar is not there.

If I am not being too much of an asshole here, which is far from my intent, I always enjoy the discussion, can you respond to a couple things if you get the chance?

1.)What do you make of tracks 1-3 on NLOTH?

No Line On The Horizon especially sounds extremely full and powerful. That one line "songs in your head.....rewiiiiiiind and replay...." especially. His voice soars on Magnificent. It has a similar anthemic, uplifting feel to Pride, but I would say that Pride is a much more difficult vocal. So its tough to say "do you see him hitting as full a note on this as Pride's studio recording?" Pride studio is easily in his Top 5 recorded vocals ever, from any era. Moment of Surrender shows off a different side of his voice, but is no less impressive. I think it has a richness not seen since the Zoo era, and he sounds pretty full when he hits the high notes.

2.)What do you make of songs like IWF, WOWY and especially NYD sounding closer and closer to how they used to sound in the 80s?

I know you talked a lot about double vocals, etc, but a similar question relates to live performances. I think Bono and everyone else have acknowledged the improvement in his voice by speeding up tracks like SBS, NYD, Pride and IWF.

To me, he still sounds powerful enough, far more powerful than from 1995-2002. And the songs I mentioned in question 2 sound closer to how they sounded in the 80s than they have since the 80s! Also, for what its worth, the way Bono belts out Glastonbury reminds me a bit of his JT era voice.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[U2387]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpairKs4_ts

Thin. Listen to the first couple verses. That's what I mean.

"Objectively not?" Get over yourself.

So you accuse others of cherry picking(often to the point of mocking Peterrr) and then you are going to advance your argument by picking the song Bono sings the worst of any of them today? That's how your going to advance your thin argument. Don't go to law school.......

Ok, so you want to use a non representative example, so I'll continue.

1.)The video you posted wasn't even that bad. Compared to a lot of Vertigo. A lot of Elevation. Legs 1 and 2 of 360. This is a joke, but let me continue just to show the poor line of reasoning.

Even if it was bad, that's not how he sings the entire show by any means. Your argument just wont go, sorry. Listen to how he sings IWF and NYD now. Listen to him belt out NLOTH and Ultraviolet. MOS. Its not thin. Find another adjective if you don't enjoy it or prefer other eras, but get the thin argument out of here.

2.)How about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCGzXKPBYd8

How about the versions since Frankfurt? Moscow? Athens? If you've been paying attention, you know he's been singing WOWY better lately.

How is stating a fact evidence of me needing to get over myself?

 

[PhilsFan]

I'm done. If you're going to say you're right "objectively" about a subjective topic, this isn't worth it.

This is why I never post in this forum. There's no rationality. Guy ages 25 years and is singing better BECAUSE WE SAID SO (OBJECTIVELY!).

 

[the tourist]

 

[Zoo360]

He hasn't sung One well since Popmart IMO. His voice seems pretty flat during this song on this tour.

 

[U2387]

I'm done. If you're going to say you're right "objectively" about a subjective topic, this isn't worth it.

This is not at all accurate.

If you are going to respond to me, make sense and argue honestly. Refer to pcfitz80's posts. He's having an honest discussion. You are bent on making it look like I am some kind of ego maniac trying to conflate my personal opinion with fact.


Read the posts.

I never said it was an objective fact that he was singing "better" now than he was 25 years ago!

What I said was objective and not subjective is that his voice now, regardless of whether you or I or anyone else think it was better before, is certainly not thin!

Ok that you still don't understand the difference.

It helps to explain your posts a bit.

This is why I never post in this forum. There's no rationality.

You've shown that.

Seriously.

You come in here and say that I'm passing my opinion on eras off as objective fact when I have only made clear about 5 times in this thread already that its not what I'm doing.

Give me a choice of any year for Bono's vocals, I'll pick 1986 any day. That being said, he's not thin now. Different? Of course.

Notice how Philsfan says he's done instead of explaining why he chose WOWY as his example when we all agree its not very representative and better versions from 360 and recently have been pointed out to him. Notice he's done instead of addressing my points about how Bono sings Pride, IWF and NYD today.....

I rest my case.

 

[Inner El Guapo]

I never said it was an objective fact that he was singing "better" now than he was 25 years ago!

What I said was objective and not subjective is that his voice now, regardless of whether you or I or anyone else think it was better before, is certainly not thin!

"Thin" with regard to voice is 100% subjective.

 

[Peterrrrr]

You're joking right?

3:27 in this clip he screams it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwZej4yYRkI

4:26 in this clips he sings it, and its a lot more powerful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzOwxKyTJMI

The thing is that he screams because he isnt able to hit the notes, it isnt hard at all to sound like he did that at all.

The same with Bad

The Wide Awakes arent impressive here at all, what we hear on this clip is a singer that has overscream on his two latest tours and his voice isnt able to hit the note without screaming throat singing, he cant hold the note either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM2UcK1cZhI

This is a singer who hits a note and and its very powerful 4:55
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79yHw7vclts
Listen also to Bad from 2005-04-25 - Seattle, 2006-12-04 - Japan.

Come on, he is great right now I agree, but how can't you say at least that his 90-93 voice sounds tons of times better than now???? I can almost understand that you don't like Bono to scream....but the pure sound, even during interviews he was giving at that time is just compared to now!

Was he that good on Zootv?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrcBeCU9TGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKayIV_XTsg

On ZooTV his falsetto was incredible, but he couldnt hit the high notes

Take Bad for an example, the Wide Awake was either in falsetto bcause he couldnt hit the note or he overscreamed instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj_20jF0AeA

And the way he used his voice on JT/LT with all those screams he can do 100% exactly now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEBmJhyLous

But here is one difference, he now combine the screaming and after the scream he goes up in full open voice, listen to "We set ourselves on fire" in the clip(0:50 in the clip). "We set ourselves on" is pure scream and on "fire" he gets a realy powerful clean operaitc note.
The first clip on the video shows that can sound exactly like he did on LT tour.

And he still got the deep voice, he just dont use it to much these days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vBdLMM4rWQ

He hasn't sung One well since Popmart IMO. His voice seems pretty flat during this song on this tour.

Try the Brandenburg Gate version from 2009


Something that I realy like about his voice today is his operatic sounding "e", somethimes when he uses an "e" in some words he get a varey nice sound.

 

[monsieur fly]

Peterrr makes some interesting points but in my view, he is far too interested in the notes Bono hits rather than the overall sound of his voice. I don't really give a toss about how many notes Bono can hit now; in my subjective view, that does not make his current voice 'sound' better than his Zoo Tv voice. So yes, I do prefer his ZOO TV rendition of NYD to his current rendition, even if he resorted to falsetto to hit some of the notes.

 

[Peterrrrr]

Peterrr makes some interesting points but in my view, he is far too interested in the notes Bono hits rather than the overall sound of his voice. I don't really give a toss about how many notes Bono can hit now; in my subjective view, that does not make his current voice 'sound' better than his Zoo Tv voice. So yes, I do prefer his ZOO TV rendition of NYD to his current rendition, even if he resorted to falsetto to hit some of the notes.

Wrong, wrong. I care very much how he sounds when he hit the notes. The NYD version from Moscow is a good example where he has such a powerful sound. Rewind from NLOTH, "need" and "breath" from Breath and if you dont take the "We set ourselves on fire" as strong well you cant take any from teh 80s as strong.

 

[Vlaco]

I take those Lovetown and Zoo TV versions any day (except for NYD), although Zoo TV Sydney wasn't his best show voicewise.

 

[Vlaco]

Wrong, wrong. I care very much how he sounds when he hit the notes. The NYD version from Moscow is a good example where he has such a powerful sound. Rewind from NLOTH, "need" and "breath" from Breath and if you dont take the "We set ourselves on fire" as strong well you cant take any from teh 80s as strong.

Singing isn't only about how to hit a note, is it?

 

[Peterrrrr]

Singing isn't only about how to hit a note, is it?

If you read the post I wrote that I like the powerful sound he has in the notes.

 

[An Cat Gav]

Singing isn't only about how to hit a note, is it?

 

[gvox]

This topic always kills me to no end. The few most vocal posters have never actually performed a vocal much less a Bono vocal in their lives, yet their ears are sophisticated enough to understand what is going on in a vocal performance? "We set ourselves on fire" stronger than any 80s U2 vocal? Are you serious?

Even the recent NYD...yes, it's a great version, better than many of recent years. But listen to the verses before the "we can be one" - do you recognize what he's doing there, the technique he is using? It's different than how he used to sing it. It's not just about the notes being hit at 4:55 or whatever of a song, what about the rest of the song??!

And the All I Want is You example...watch the video again. Do you hear how he scaled down alot of the parts leading up to that final "yoooouuuuu"? He spoke the preceding verse for crissakes! That's dramatically different to the way he used to sing the ENTIRE song. You "save up" your voice for the end, and he does that with alot of the older songs now. This is not "better" or "worse" singing than before per se, it's just technically a smarter way to perform live.

Your Bad example is another one - he sings the song way more controlled than he used to and he does none of the old ad libbing or running around that he used to, so of course when he gets to the final wide awake sure he can ring it out a bit better, but for frig's sake it's nowhere near as powerful as the way he used to sing it in the song's entirety. That Washington video from 92...around 3:20 or so - he hit that chorus while being carried around by someone, and at some point during it the guy put him down! That means he had little control over his feet, his diaphragm (given that he had one arm around the guy's head holding on)...in that sort of physical position that chorus would be really hard to do! And yet he hits it.

Honestly Peter, not trying to get personal here, but you've been prattling on about the voice campaign for god knows how long now, and man I've got to tell you: your examples are not realistic, and you really don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about. Sorry man.

That's not to say that Bono's crap now, he's not, he's singing great if although a bit smarter and more conservative. When he was younger I doubt he even gave tour longevity or sustainability a second thought, but now he's more mature about it. He used to pull off these moments we now go 'oooh' over during practically every song, every verse, every chorus. He used to run around the stage possessed and climb shit regularly. Now he picks his moments, and for good reason, it's a good idea.

 

[Yahweh_OMG]

This topic always kills me to no end. The few most vocal posters have never actually performed a vocal much less a Bono vocal in their lives, yet their ears are sophisticated enough to understand what is going on in a vocal performance? "We set ourselves on fire" stronger than any 80s U2 vocal? Are you serious?

Even the recent NYD...yes, it's a great version, better than many of recent years. But listen to the verses before the "we can be one" - do you recognize what he's doing there, the technique he is using? It's different than how he used to sing it. It's not just about the notes being hit at 4:55 or whatever of a song, what about the rest of the song??!

And the All I Want is You example...watch the video again. Do you hear how he scaled down alot of the parts leading up to that final "yoooouuuuu"? He spoke the preceding verse for crissakes! That's dramatically different to the way he used to sing the ENTIRE song. You "save up" your voice for the end, and he does that with alot of the older songs now. This is not "better" or "worse" singing than before per se, it's just technically a smarter way to perform live.

Your Bad example is another one - he sings the song way more controlled than he used to and he does none of the old ad libbing or running around that he used to, so of course when he gets to the final wide awake sure he can ring it out a bit better, but for frig's sake it's nowhere near as powerful as the way he used to sing it in the song's entirety. That Washington video from 92...around 3:20 or so - he hit that chorus while being carried around by someone, and at some point during it the guy put him down! That means he had little control over his feet, his diaphragm (given that he had one arm around the guy's head holding on)...in that sort of physical position that chorus would be really hard to do! And yet he hits it.

Honestly Peter, not trying to get personal here, but you've been prattling on about the voice campaign for god knows how long now, and man I've got to tell you: your examples are not realistic, and you really don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about. Sorry man.

That's not to say that Bono's crap now, he's not, he's singing great if although a bit smarter and more conservative. When he was younger I doubt he even gave tour longevity or sustainability a second thought, but now he's more mature about it. He used to pull off these moments we now go 'oooh' over during practically every song, every verse, every chorus. He used to run around the stage possessed and climb shit regularly. Now he picks his moments, and for good reason, it's a good idea.

Spot on, I have to agree, this is like comparing Monica Bellucci with Margaret Thatcher...

 

[U2girl]

Singing isn't only about how to hit a note, is it?

Yes, there's also technique and not blowing your voice out frequently, until the verge of destroying your career. Being a better singer*, and not scream night after night.

So while, yes, the decades of ageing - and moreso - the screaming nature of his singing took it's toll, there is no denying the re-birth of the voice in the last few years. Some songs, UV on 360 for one, are on par with the past IMO.

* not to be confused with having a stronger voice

 

[monsieur fly]

This topic always kills me to no end. The few most vocal posters have never actually performed a vocal much less a Bono vocal in their lives, yet their ears are sophisticated enough to understand what is going on in a vocal performance? "We set ourselves on fire" stronger than any 80s U2 vocal? Are you serious?

Even the recent NYD...yes, it's a great version, better than many of recent years. But listen to the verses before the "we can be one" - do you recognize what he's doing there, the technique he is using? It's different than how he used to sing it. It's not just about the notes being hit at 4:55 or whatever of a song, what about the rest of the song??!

And the All I Want is You example...watch the video again. Do you hear how he scaled down alot of the parts leading up to that final "yoooouuuuu"? He spoke the preceding verse for crissakes! That's dramatically different to the way he used to sing the ENTIRE song. You "save up" your voice for the end, and he does that with alot of the older songs now. This is not "better" or "worse" singing than before per se, it's just technically a smarter way to perform live.

Your Bad example is another one - he sings the song way more controlled than he used to and he does none of the old ad libbing or running around that he used to, so of course when he gets to the final wide awake sure he can ring it out a bit better, but for frig's sake it's nowhere near as powerful as the way he used to sing it in the song's entirety. That Washington video from 92...around 3:20 or so - he hit that chorus while being carried around by someone, and at some point during it the guy put him down! That means he had little control over his feet, his diaphragm (given that he had one arm around the guy's head holding on)...in that sort of physical position that chorus would be really hard to do! And yet he hits it.

Honestly Peter, not trying to get personal here, but you've been prattling on about the voice campaign for god knows how long now, and man I've got to tell you: your examples are not realistic, and you really don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about. Sorry man.

That's not to say that Bono's crap now, he's not, he's singing great if although a bit smarter and more conservative. When he was younger I doubt he even gave tour longevity or sustainability a second thought, but now he's more mature about it. He used to pull off these moments we now go 'oooh' over during practically every song, every verse, every chorus. He used to run around the stage possessed and climb shit regularly. Now he picks his moments, and for good reason, it's a good idea.

What a great post! Absolutely spot on, gvox.

 

[gvox]

Some songs, UV on 360 for one, are on par with the past IMO.

Nah, he still hasn't performed that song in it's entirety as well as he used to. Sometimes he doesn't even sing full verses and there's ALOT of Edge goin on. ALOT. That's actually the one song I wish he'd really clean up - like he has WOWY, very nice how he's getting back on track with WOWY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV2T6JgdmI4


No comparison, sorry.

 

[U2girl]

Agree to disagree, then. 360 UV to me is easily comparable to Zoo TV UV - in fact I prefer this new version. And Edge was always in the chorus...like many other U2 songs.

Another good one IMO is Bad on Vertigo tour, he pulls it off and it was usually a closing song after 2+hour show. And the Boy songs, Electric co in particular.

 

[gvox]

Agree to disagree, then. 360 UV to me is easily comparable to Zoo TV UV - in fact I prefer this new version. And Edge was always in the chorus...like many other U2 songs.

I edited that because I'm not referring only to the chorus. Honestly I can't imagine how anyone could think the 360 version better than that Washington performance. I do like on 360 that he notched up the second verse, if a lil bit shriekey, its a good modification, and I like that he attempts the part Edge sings in the chorus. But at the sacrifice of that beautiful falsetto on ZOO, so...not sure how much better that is...different, yes.

He's actually singing it on the ZOO version, not quite so on 360, I'm afraid. I do love that they've brought it back, in whatever form however.

 

[U2girl]

WOWY is an example of Bono's vocal getting back on track ? It hasn't been good ever since Macphisto kidnapped it - and not even approaching "good" on the last 4 tours. The one 80's song he can't get back IMO, not even on a good day like the Gerry Ryan version.

 

[U2387]

"Thin" with regard to voice is 100% subjective.

No its not, but ok.

Elevation "Bad" The Wide Awakes are thin. He doesn't even attempt to sing them most of the time, never mind fill them out and hit them correctly.

Vertigo is not thin. Refer to Peterr's examples of Bad(the whole song) from Seattle or Tokyo 12/4/06.

Now, say what you want about preferring one over the other or how one sounds to you compared to the other, Bono's voice now is not thin.

 

[gvox]

WOWY is an example of Bono's vocal getting back on track ? It hasn't been good ever since Macphisto kidnapped it - and not even approaching "good" on the last 4 tours. The one 80's song he can't get back IMO, not even on a good day like the Gerry Ryan version.

It's not an example of his vocals in general getting back on track, it's an example of a song he's cleaning up a bit in terms of his vocal in that particular song. It has improved over the tour as many have noticed.

 

[65980]

I'm reminded of the (not very good) movie, Rockstar, where Mark Wahlberg is eating breakfast with his family, and starts identifying exactly which concert in Osaka that his favorite head-banger band last played a certain song. His brother says something like, "That is pathetic! That is pathetic that you would know that!"

 

[LemonMelon]

I fear for Bono's health hearing him sing on 360 sometimes. He sounds like he's about to collapse on all the rockers, and he even talk-sings the ballads on occasion.

Y'all crazy if you think his voice is powerful because he's shrieky sometimes (EG: opening line of MOS, all of Crazy Tonight remix). Lovetown Bono would have kicked sand in 360 Bono's face.

 

[catlhere]

There are some songs Bono can still do very well and suit his voice. Others though he has a lot of trouble with. I feel his 84-89 voice is my favorite though because of just how incredibly effortless it sounded at times, plus I don't mind when he went all screamy/raspy. I think it added something special to the music to have those raw vocals in something like God Part 2. But yeah, that era was insanely good. Especially TUF/JT stuff. Honorable mention to his early 90's voice too, and his current voice which has really impressed me, but both don't compare in my mind.

He isn't as good as he used to be though, imo, at least not consistantly. I don't think it's a bad thing to say, it's just reality. His voice changed. He has strong nights of course, but you can definitely tell it's hard for him to sing some of the older tunes. Especially on TUF songs, which seem to be the toughest for him to do with his current voice. He didn't sing Unforgettable Fire very well while it was in the setlist, and he hasn't sung Bad as good as he used to either imo. Pride isn't as good either, and hasn't been great for a while now for me. And not to be mean but MLK is just awful right now, and I'm glad they changed it for MOTD because he wasn't pulling it off like he did back in the day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SwkrAMl2Sw

Now THAT'S a sick MLK
None of that "shleeeeeaaayyyyheeeeepppp" he does now.

 

[zooropop40]