corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
This is not what Ali says.
boom TISH!
This is not what Ali says.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpairKs4_ts2.)His voice is thin now.
I just don't see how you arrive at that, sorry. He hits the higher notes longer, cleaner and with a good deal of power. The real stretching and straining took place on JT and LT when he often screamed and still didn't hit the notes right.
Don't get me wrong, there are days when I prefer JT tour to every other era, and his voice certainly had some qualities then that it lacks now. Not really tangibles, just something about it.
Where I get off the boat is when people claim his voice is thin now.
I don't hear too much straining in A Man And A Woman. Its not really a style of song Bono had ever sung before, and its not one of my favorites, but its a great vocal. I am perplexed by that as an example.
Take Away point.
Even if you want to use argument #1 until you are blue in the face, if to your ears Bono really sounds like a different singer entirely in the early 80s, great.
But do not try and use argument #1 as a way to make argument #2 and say his voice is "thin" today. It is objectively not.
I'm not. His voice changed. This I think we can agree on. But just because it changed that statement in and of itself doesn't say what it changed to - it could have changed to anything. However in his case I believe the changes are do to his voice aging prematurely. The "thin" thing didn't happen overnight. I would not say his late 80s voice was "thin" but definitely through the 90s and the 2000s its developed that quality to it. Don't really no how else to describe it to you...It just sounds like there is not as much there to it when he sings in a higher register. You will not like me for saying this but I think he (Bono) notices this too and that is why many songs going as far back as "Baby Face" have the double vocal track, low voice mixed over higher voice, to fill it out a bit more. This would not have made sense or sounded right with the voice he had during the War era on songs like "Drowning Man" - You really think, objectively, he has anywhere near the power now that he did on that song? Or what about "Magnificent" vs. "Pride"? Yes, he's hitting similar notes on songs like "Magnificent" or OOTS but his voice is qualifiedly different now and there is just less there to it. Less power, not as full. I think you are hearing the same thing I am but you would not describe it with the terms I am using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpairKs4_ts
Thin. Listen to the first couple verses. That's what I mean.
"Objectively not?" Get over yourself.
I'm done. If you're going to say you're right "objectively" about a subjective topic, this isn't worth it.
This is not at all accurate.
If you are going to respond to me, make sense and argue honestly. Refer to pcfitz80's posts. He's having an honest discussion. You are bent on making it look like I am some kind of ego maniac trying to conflate my personal opinion with fact.
Read the posts.
I never said it was an objective fact that he was singing "better" now than he was 25 years ago!
What I said was objective and not subjective is that his voice now, regardless of whether you or I or anyone else think it was better before, is certainly not thin!
Ok that you still don't understand the difference.
It helps to explain your posts a bit.
This is why I never post in this forum. There's no rationality.
You've shown that.
Seriously.
You come in here and say that I'm passing my opinion on eras off as objective fact when I have only made clear about 5 times in this thread already that its not what I'm doing.
Give me a choice of any year for Bono's vocals, I'll pick 1986 any day. That being said, he's not thin now. Different? Of course.
Notice how Philsfan says he's done instead of explaining why he chose WOWY as his example when we all agree its not very representative and better versions from 360 and recently have been pointed out to him. Notice he's done instead of addressing my points about how Bono sings Pride, IWF and NYD today.....
I rest my case.
I never said it was an objective fact that he was singing "better" now than he was 25 years ago!
What I said was objective and not subjective is that his voice now, regardless of whether you or I or anyone else think it was better before, is certainly not thin!
"Thin" with regard to voice is 100% subjective.
You're joking right?
Come on, he is great right now I agree, but how can't you say at least that his 90-93 voice sounds tons of times better than now???? I can almost understand that you don't like Bono to scream....but the pure sound, even during interviews he was giving at that time is just compared to now!
He hasn't sung One well since Popmart IMO. His voice seems pretty flat during this song on this tour.
Peterrr makes some interesting points but in my view, he is far too interested in the notes Bono hits rather than the overall sound of his voice. I don't really give a toss about how many notes Bono can hit now; in my subjective view, that does not make his current voice 'sound' better than his Zoo Tv voice. So yes, I do prefer his ZOO TV rendition of NYD to his current rendition, even if he resorted to falsetto to hit some of the notes.
Singing isn't only about how to hit a note, is it?Wrong, wrong. I care very much how he sounds when he hit the notes. The NYD version from Moscow is a good example where he has such a powerful sound. Rewind from NLOTH, "need" and "breath" from Breath and if you dont take the "We set ourselves on fire" as strong well you cant take any from teh 80s as strong.
Singing isn't only about how to hit a note, is it?
Singing isn't only about how to hit a note, is it?
This topic always kills me to no end. The few most vocal posters have never actually performed a vocal much less a Bono vocal in their lives, yet their ears are sophisticated enough to understand what is going on in a vocal performance? "We set ourselves on fire" stronger than any 80s U2 vocal? Are you serious?
Even the recent NYD...yes, it's a great version, better than many of recent years. But listen to the verses before the "we can be one" - do you recognize what he's doing there, the technique he is using? It's different than how he used to sing it. It's not just about the notes being hit at 4:55 or whatever of a song, what about the rest of the song??!
And the All I Want is You example...watch the video again. Do you hear how he scaled down alot of the parts leading up to that final "yoooouuuuu"? He spoke the preceding verse for crissakes! That's dramatically different to the way he used to sing the ENTIRE song. You "save up" your voice for the end, and he does that with alot of the older songs now. This is not "better" or "worse" singing than before per se, it's just technically a smarter way to perform live.
Your Bad example is another one - he sings the song way more controlled than he used to and he does none of the old ad libbing or running around that he used to, so of course when he gets to the final wide awake sure he can ring it out a bit better, but for frig's sake it's nowhere near as powerful as the way he used to sing it in the song's entirety. That Washington video from 92...around 3:20 or so - he hit that chorus while being carried around by someone, and at some point during it the guy put him down! That means he had little control over his feet, his diaphragm (given that he had one arm around the guy's head holding on)...in that sort of physical position that chorus would be really hard to do! And yet he hits it.
Honestly Peter, not trying to get personal here, but you've been prattling on about the voice campaign for god knows how long now, and man I've got to tell you: your examples are not realistic, and you really don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about. Sorry man.
That's not to say that Bono's crap now, he's not, he's singing great if although a bit smarter and more conservative. When he was younger I doubt he even gave tour longevity or sustainability a second thought, but now he's more mature about it. He used to pull off these moments we now go 'oooh' over during practically every song, every verse, every chorus. He used to run around the stage possessed and climb shit regularly. Now he picks his moments, and for good reason, it's a good idea.
Singing isn't only about how to hit a note, is it?
This topic always kills me to no end. The few most vocal posters have never actually performed a vocal much less a Bono vocal in their lives, yet their ears are sophisticated enough to understand what is going on in a vocal performance? "We set ourselves on fire" stronger than any 80s U2 vocal? Are you serious?
Even the recent NYD...yes, it's a great version, better than many of recent years. But listen to the verses before the "we can be one" - do you recognize what he's doing there, the technique he is using? It's different than how he used to sing it. It's not just about the notes being hit at 4:55 or whatever of a song, what about the rest of the song??!
And the All I Want is You example...watch the video again. Do you hear how he scaled down alot of the parts leading up to that final "yoooouuuuu"? He spoke the preceding verse for crissakes! That's dramatically different to the way he used to sing the ENTIRE song. You "save up" your voice for the end, and he does that with alot of the older songs now. This is not "better" or "worse" singing than before per se, it's just technically a smarter way to perform live.
Your Bad example is another one - he sings the song way more controlled than he used to and he does none of the old ad libbing or running around that he used to, so of course when he gets to the final wide awake sure he can ring it out a bit better, but for frig's sake it's nowhere near as powerful as the way he used to sing it in the song's entirety. That Washington video from 92...around 3:20 or so - he hit that chorus while being carried around by someone, and at some point during it the guy put him down! That means he had little control over his feet, his diaphragm (given that he had one arm around the guy's head holding on)...in that sort of physical position that chorus would be really hard to do! And yet he hits it.
Honestly Peter, not trying to get personal here, but you've been prattling on about the voice campaign for god knows how long now, and man I've got to tell you: your examples are not realistic, and you really don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about. Sorry man.
That's not to say that Bono's crap now, he's not, he's singing great if although a bit smarter and more conservative. When he was younger I doubt he even gave tour longevity or sustainability a second thought, but now he's more mature about it. He used to pull off these moments we now go 'oooh' over during practically every song, every verse, every chorus. He used to run around the stage possessed and climb shit regularly. Now he picks his moments, and for good reason, it's a good idea.
Some songs, UV on 360 for one, are on par with the past IMO.
Agree to disagree, then. 360 UV to me is easily comparable to Zoo TV UV - in fact I prefer this new version. And Edge was always in the chorus...like many other U2 songs.
"Thin" with regard to voice is 100% subjective.
No its not, but ok.
Elevation "Bad" The Wide Awakes are thin. He doesn't even attempt to sing them most of the time, never mind fill them out and hit them correctly.
Vertigo is not thin. Refer to Peterr's examples of Bad(the whole song) from Seattle or Tokyo 12/4/06.
Now, say what you want about preferring one over the other or how one sounds to you compared to the other, Bono's voice now is not thin.
WOWY is an example of Bono's vocal getting back on track ? It hasn't been good ever since Macphisto kidnapped it - and not even approaching "good" on the last 4 tours. The one 80's song he can't get back IMO, not even on a good day like the Gerry Ryan version.