Best Song Survivor: No Line, Round Eight

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Von Schloopen said:
Zooropa has a verse chorus structure. Don't let the intro throw you off. And even that has a verse/chorus structure, much as the extended shash intro hides it.

Intro.

Verse:
Zooropa...vorsprung durch technik
Zooropa...be all that you can be

Chorus/Release:

Be a winner
Eat to get slimmer

Bridge.

Verse:

Zooropa...a bluer kind of white
Zooropa...it could be yours tonight

Chorus/Release:

We're mild and green
And squeaky clean

Bridge.


Verse:
Zooropa...better by design
Zooropa...fly the friendly skies

Chorus:

Through appliance of science
We've got that ring of confidence

Verse:

And I have no compass
And I have no map
And I have no reasons
No reasons to get back

And I have no religion
And I don't know what's what
And I don't know the limit
The limit of what we've got

Chorus:

Don't worry baby, it'll be alright
You got the right shoes
To get you through the night
It's cold outside, but brightly lit
Skip the subway
Let's go to the overground
Get your head out of the mud baby
Put flowers in the mud baby
Overground

Verse:

No particular place names
No particular song
I've been hiding
What am I hiding from

Chorus:

Don't worry baby, it's gonna be alright
Uncertainty can be a guiding light
I hear voices, ridiculous voices
Out in the slipstream
Let's go, let's go overground
Take your head out of the mud baby

Outro:

She's gonna dream up
The world she wants to live in
She's gonna dream out loud
She's gonna dream out loud

The intro section is so good it could be it's own song. Their brilliance is they attach it to a basic "Ramones" verse/chorus X2 pop song. There aren't even any real chord changes in the back 1/2, and they still manage to create the verse/chorus structure with lyrics, cadence, vocal tone and background vocals being the movers. And a few guitar flourishes. The chorus has a whole different shake to it than the verses.
Click to expand...

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN....

I'm not calling you stupid or a moron or a retard.
But I'm calling your argument stupid, moronic, and retarded.

Educate all the songwriters among us, though. Those of us who've been writing songs for more than a decade. The ones who disagree with most of what you're saying.
 
digitize said:
Excuse my musical ignorance, but isn't a chorus at least partially defined as a set of lyrics that repeats?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It's more the melody and cadence.

This is described it as well as it can be described:

bono_212 said:
I'm glad you asked


A refrain (from Vulgar Latin refringere, "to repeat", and later from Old French refraindre) is the line or lines that are repeated in music or in verse; the "chorus" of a song. Poetic fixed forms that feature refrains include the villanelle, the virelay, and the sestina.

The use of refrains is particularly associated with where the verse-chorus-verse song structure typically places a refrain in almost every song. The refrain or chorus often sharply contrasts the verse melodically, rhythmically, and harmonically, and assumes a higher level of dynamics and activity, often with added instrumentation. Chorus form, or strophic form, is a sectional and/or additive way of structuring a piece of music based on the repetition of one formal section or block played repeatedly. See also verse-chorus form.

In music, a refrain has two parts: the lyrics of the song, and the melody. Sometimes refrains vary their words slightly when repeated; recognisability is given to the refrain by the fact that it is always sung to the same tune, and the rhymes, if present, are preserved despite the variations of the words. Such a refrain is featured in "The Star-Spangled Banner," which contains a refrain which is introduced by a different phrase in each verse, but which always ends:

O'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave.
A similar refrain is found in the "Battle Hymn of the Republic," which affirms in successive verses that "Our God," or "His Truth." is "marching on."

Refrains usually, but not always, come at the end of the verse. Some songs, especially ballads, incorporate refrains into each verse. For example, one version of the traditional ballad The Cruel Sister includes a refrain mid-verse:

There lived a lady by the North Sea shore,
Lay the bent to the bonny broom
Two daughters were the babes she bore.
Fa la la la la la la la la.
As one grew bright as is the sun,
Lay the bent to the bonny broom
So coal black grew the other one.
Fa la la la la la la la.
. . .
(Note: the refrain of 'Lay the Bent to the Bonny Broom' is not traditionally associated with the ballad of The Cruel Sister (Child #10). This was the work of 'pop-folk' group Pentangle on their 1970 LP 'Cruel Sister' which has subsequently been picked up by many folk singers as being traditional. Both the melody and the refrain come from the ballad known as Riddles Wisely Expounded (Child #1).)

Here, the refrain is syntactically independent of the narrative poem in the song, and has no obvious relationship to its subject, and indeed little inherent meaning at all. The device can also convey material which relates to the subject of the poem. Such a refrain is found in Dante Gabriel Rossetti's Troy Town:

Heavenborn Helen, Sparta's queen,
O Troy Town!
Had two breasts of heavenly sheen,
The sun and moon of the heart's desire:
All Love's lordship lay between,
A sheen on the breasts I Love.
O Troy's down,
Tall Troy's on fire!
. . .
Phrases of apparent nonsense in refrains (Lay the bent to the bonny broom?), and solfege syllables such as fa la la, familiar from the Christmas carol Deck the Halls with Boughs of Holly, have given rise to much speculation. Some believe that the traditional refrain Hob a derry down O encountered in some English folksongs is in fact an ancient Celtic phrase meaning "dance around the oak tree." These suggestions remain controversial.

In popular music

Arranger's chorus

Shout chorus

See also

References

External links

Article by contributors like you
Provided under CCBY-SA3.0
Terms of Use |
Click to expand...
 
the tourist said:
WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN....

I'm not calling you stupid or a moron or a retard.
But I'm calling your argument stupid, moronic, and retarded.

Educate all the songwriters among us, though. Those of us who've been writing songs for more than a decade. The ones who disagree with most of what you're saying.
Click to expand...

Ok.

Do your own diagram. Prove me wrong.

I'm one of the worst musicians in the world. But I'm still a musician.
 
I'm glad you asked


A refrain (from Vulgar Latin refringere, "to repeat", and later from Old French refraindre) is the line or lines that are repeated in music or in verse; the "chorus" of a song. Poetic fixed forms that feature refrains include the villanelle, the virelay, and the sestina.

The use of refrains is particularly associated with where the verse-chorus-verse song structure typically places a refrain in almost every song. The refrain or chorus often sharply contrasts the verse melodically, rhythmically, and harmonically, and assumes a higher level of dynamics and activity, often with added instrumentation. Chorus form, or strophic form, is a sectional and/or additive way of structuring a piece of music based on the repetition of one formal section or block played repeatedly. See also verse-chorus form.

In music, a refrain has two parts: the lyrics of the song, and the melody. Sometimes refrains vary their words slightly when repeated; recognisability is given to the refrain by the fact that it is always sung to the same tune, and the rhymes, if present, are preserved despite the variations of the words. Such a refrain is featured in "The Star-Spangled Banner," which contains a refrain which is introduced by a different phrase in each verse, but which always ends:

O'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave.
A similar refrain is found in the "Battle Hymn of the Republic," which affirms in successive verses that "Our God," or "His Truth." is "marching on."

Refrains usually, but not always, come at the end of the verse. Some songs, especially ballads, incorporate refrains into each verse. For example, one version of the traditional ballad The Cruel Sister includes a refrain mid-verse:

There lived a lady by the North Sea shore,
Lay the bent to the bonny broom
Two daughters were the babes she bore.
Fa la la la la la la la la.
As one grew bright as is the sun,
Lay the bent to the bonny broom
So coal black grew the other one.
Fa la la la la la la la.
. . .
(Note: the refrain of 'Lay the Bent to the Bonny Broom' is not traditionally associated with the ballad of The Cruel Sister (Child #10). This was the work of 'pop-folk' group Pentangle on their 1970 LP 'Cruel Sister' which has subsequently been picked up by many folk singers as being traditional. Both the melody and the refrain come from the ballad known as Riddles Wisely Expounded (Child #1).)

Here, the refrain is syntactically independent of the narrative poem in the song, and has no obvious relationship to its subject, and indeed little inherent meaning at all. The device can also convey material which relates to the subject of the poem. Such a refrain is found in Dante Gabriel Rossetti's Troy Town:

Heavenborn Helen, Sparta's queen,
O Troy Town!
Had two breasts of heavenly sheen,
The sun and moon of the heart's desire:
All Love's lordship lay between,
A sheen on the breasts I Love.
O Troy's down,
Tall Troy's on fire!
. . .
Phrases of apparent nonsense in refrains (Lay the bent to the bonny broom?), and solfege syllables such as fa la la, familiar from the Christmas carol Deck the Halls with Boughs of Holly, have given rise to much speculation. Some believe that the traditional refrain Hob a derry down O encountered in some English folksongs is in fact an ancient Celtic phrase meaning "dance around the oak tree." These suggestions remain controversial.

In popular music

Arranger's chorus

Shout chorus

See also

References

External links

Article by contributors like you
Provided under CCBY-SA3.0
Terms of Use |
 
the tourist said:
Show me a link to an official definition that agrees with you.
Click to expand...

My position is retarded. Remember?

Now you want me to post links to the official music definition of a "chorus"?

Me knot know how. Me dumb enough to come up wit this.

Is there an "official music definition" website?
 
bono_212 said:
I'm glad you asked


A refrain (from Vulgar Latin refringere, "to repeat", and later from Old French refraindre) is the line or lines that are repeated in music or in verse; the "chorus" of a song. Poetic fixed forms that feature refrains include the villanelle, the virelay, and the sestina.

The use of refrains is particularly associated with where the verse-chorus-verse song structure typically places a refrain in almost every song. The refrain or chorus often sharply contrasts the verse melodically, rhythmically, and harmonically, and assumes a higher level of dynamics and activity, often with added instrumentation. Chorus form, or strophic form, is a sectional and/or additive way of structuring a piece of music based on the repetition of one formal section or block played repeatedly. See also verse-chorus form.

In music, a refrain has two parts: the lyrics of the song, and the melody. Sometimes refrains vary their words slightly when repeated; recognisability is given to the refrain by the fact that it is always sung to the same tune, and the rhymes, if present, are preserved despite the variations of the words. Such a refrain is featured in "The Star-Spangled Banner," which contains a refrain which is introduced by a different phrase in each verse, but which always ends:

O'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave.
A similar refrain is found in the "Battle Hymn of the Republic," which affirms in successive verses that "Our God," or "His Truth." is "marching on."

Refrains usually, but not always, come at the end of the verse. Some songs, especially ballads, incorporate refrains into each verse. For example, one version of the traditional ballad The Cruel Sister includes a refrain mid-verse:

There lived a lady by the North Sea shore,
Lay the bent to the bonny broom
Two daughters were the babes she bore.
Fa la la la la la la la la.
As one grew bright as is the sun,
Lay the bent to the bonny broom
So coal black grew the other one.
Fa la la la la la la la.
. . .
(Note: the refrain of 'Lay the Bent to the Bonny Broom' is not traditionally associated with the ballad of The Cruel Sister (Child #10). This was the work of 'pop-folk' group Pentangle on their 1970 LP 'Cruel Sister' which has subsequently been picked up by many folk singers as being traditional. Both the melody and the refrain come from the ballad known as Riddles Wisely Expounded (Child #1).)

Here, the refrain is syntactically independent of the narrative poem in the song, and has no obvious relationship to its subject, and indeed little inherent meaning at all. The device can also convey material which relates to the subject of the poem. Such a refrain is found in Dante Gabriel Rossetti's Troy Town:

Heavenborn Helen, Sparta's queen,
O Troy Town!
Had two breasts of heavenly sheen,
The sun and moon of the heart's desire:
All Love's lordship lay between,
A sheen on the breasts I Love.
O Troy's down,
Tall Troy's on fire!
. . .
Phrases of apparent nonsense in refrains (Lay the bent to the bonny broom?), and solfege syllables such as fa la la, familiar from the Christmas carol Deck the Halls with Boughs of Holly, have given rise to much speculation. Some believe that the traditional refrain Hob a derry down O encountered in some English folksongs is in fact an ancient Celtic phrase meaning "dance around the oak tree." These suggestions remain controversial.

In popular music

Arranger's chorus

Shout chorus

See also

References

External links

Article by contributors like you
Provided under CCBY-SA3.0
Terms of Use |
Click to expand...

Is that official? That could be any nutjob.
 
Von Schloopen said:
Ok.

Do your own diagram. Prove me wrong.

I'm one of the worst musicians in the world. But I'm still a musician.
Click to expand...

Intro.

Section A:
Zooropa...vorsprung durch technik
Zooropa...be all that you can be
Be a winner
Eat to get slimmer
Zooropa...a bluer kind of white
Zooropa...it could be yours tonight
We're mild and green
And squeaky clean
Zooropa...better by design
Zooropa...fly the friendly skies
Through appliance of science
We've got that ring of confidence

Section B:

And I have no compass
And I have no map
And I have no reasons
No reasons to get back
And I have no religion
And I don't know what's what
And I don't know the limit
The limit of what we've got

Section C:

Don't worry baby, it'll be alright
You got the right shoes
To get you through the night
It's cold outside, but brightly lit
Skip the subway
Let's go to the overground
Get your head out of the mud baby
Put flowers in the mud baby
Overground

Section D:

No particular place names
No particular song
I've been hiding
What am I hiding from

Section E:

Don't worry baby, it's gonna be alright
Uncertainty can be a guiding light
I hear voices, ridiculous voices
Out in the slipstream
Let's go, let's go overground
Take your head out of the mud baby

Section F:

She's gonna dream up
The world she wants to live in
She's gonna dream out loud
She's gonna dream out loud

Sections B and D have matching music and melodies, but not words - neither are chorus'.
Sections C and E have matching music and melodies, but not words - neither are chorus'.
Sections A and F do not match anything else in the song musically or melodically.

You could make the argument that chorus lyrics change. In that case, I submit that sections B, D and sections C, E are both chorus' and that the actual song structure is as follows:

Verse->Chorus 1->Chorus 2->Chorus 1->Chorus 2->Verse.

Hardly traditional.
 
Von Schloopen said:
My position is retarded. Remember?

Now you want me to post links to the official music definition of a "chorus"?

Me knot know how. Me dumb enough to come up wit this.

Is there an "official music definition" website?
Click to expand...


No, but there are many, many dictionaries. Good luck, Schloop-a-doop Von B.
 
the tourist said:
Intro.

Section A:
Zooropa...vorsprung durch technik
Zooropa...be all that you can be
Be a winner
Eat to get slimmer
Zooropa...a bluer kind of white
Zooropa...it could be yours tonight
We're mild and green
And squeaky clean
Zooropa...better by design
Zooropa...fly the friendly skies
Through appliance of science
We've got that ring of confidence

Section B:

And I have no compass
And I have no map
And I have no reasons
No reasons to get back
And I have no religion
And I don't know what's what
And I don't know the limit
The limit of what we've got

Section C:

Don't worry baby, it'll be alright
You got the right shoes
To get you through the night
It's cold outside, but brightly lit
Skip the subway
Let's go to the overground
Get your head out of the mud baby
Put flowers in the mud baby
Overground

Section D:

No particular place names
No particular song
I've been hiding
What am I hiding from

Section E:

Don't worry baby, it's gonna be alright
Uncertainty can be a guiding light
I hear voices, ridiculous voices
Out in the slipstream
Let's go, let's go overground
Take your head out of the mud baby

Section F:

She's gonna dream up
The world she wants to live in
She's gonna dream out loud
She's gonna dream out loud

Sections B and D have matching music and melodies, but not words - neither are chorus'.
Sections C and E have matching music and melodies, but not words - neither are chorus'.
Sections A and F do not match anything else in the song musically or melodically.

You could make the argument that chorus lyrics change. In that case, I submit that sections B, D and sections C, E are both chorus' and that the actual song structure is as follows:

Verse->Chorus 1->Chorus 2->Chorus 1->Chorus 2->Verse.

Hardly traditional.
Click to expand...

I don't understand. You have 5 letter segments: A-F, yet you say the structure is 6 parts: Verse->Chorus 1->Chorus 2->Chorus 1->Chorus 2->Verse.

Which letter segments match with your song diagram? Cause your missing one.
 
Von Schloopen said:
I don't understand. You have 5 letter segments: A-F, yet you say the structure is 6 parts: Verse->Chorus 1->Chorus 2->Chorus 1->Chorus 2->Verse.

Which letter segments match with your song diagram? Cause your missing one.
Click to expand...

A
B
C
D
E
F

That's 6 lines! :cute:
 
the tourist said:
Oxford. Merriam Webster. Dictionary.com
Click to expand...

Ok.

Looked it up on all those. Don't know which is the "official" one I asked for.

I'm kinda thinking my position is solid. Those definitions reinforced it. I'm guessing one of them is the "official" one.

Did you check those before you recommended them to me?

Think that backfired on ya a bit.

Can you match up your letters with your diagram.

Also, maybe I need to calibrate. Can you diagram "Out Of Control"?
 
This argument is so asinine, but I'm actually going to step in here on Schloop's side for just a second.

I don't agree with him, but a chorus does not have to repeat the same words each time.
 
Is that musician dictionary approved opinion? I lied when I said I checked out Oxford. Merriam Webster. Dictionary.com.

I actually looked at some porn.
 
yeah, i agree with ashley. but because it was bugging me, i looked up the definition on the oed:

chorus, n.
View as: Outline |Full entryQuotations: Show all |Hide all
Pronunciation: /ˈkɔərəs/
Forms: Pl. choruses.
Etymology: < Latin chorus dance, band of dancers and singers, etc. (in medieval Latin, choir of a church), < Greek χορός dance, band of dancers, chorus (sense 1), etc.

c. The main part of a modern popular song, as distinct from the introductory verse; also, an improvisation upon the main tune by one or more jazz musicians.

the rest of the definitions had to do with choruses, as in choirs. but if anyone's dying to see them, i can post the whole thing.
 
And honestly, I'd argue that the Don't Worry Baby bit, IS a chorus. It's just very late in the song.
 
It's as much a chorus as the "And I have no compass..." and "No particular place names..." segments.

But really, because of the way this can be debated, I think everyone can probably agree that Zooropa's song structure is not standard at all. If you want to call those parts chorus', the song is still not A, B, A, B, C, B as is pretty standard. It'd be A, B, C, B, C, D. Which isn't standard at all.
 
Von Schloopen said:
Zooropa has a verse chorus structure. Don't let the intro throw you off. And even that has a verse/chorus structure, much as the extended shash intro hides it.

Intro.

Verse:
Zooropa...vorsprung durch technik
Zooropa...be all that you can be

Chorus/Release:

Be a winner
Eat to get slimmer

Bridge.

Verse:

Zooropa...a bluer kind of white
Zooropa...it could be yours tonight

Chorus/Release:

We're mild and green
And squeaky clean

Bridge.


Verse:
Zooropa...better by design
Zooropa...fly the friendly skies

Chorus:

Through appliance of science
We've got that ring of confidence

Verse:

And I have no compass
And I have no map
And I have no reasons
No reasons to get back

And I have no religion
And I don't know what's what
And I don't know the limit
The limit of what we've got

Chorus:

Don't worry baby, it'll be alright
You got the right shoes
To get you through the night
It's cold outside, but brightly lit
Skip the subway
Let's go to the overground
Get your head out of the mud baby
Put flowers in the mud baby
Overground

Verse:

No particular place names
No particular song
I've been hiding
What am I hiding from

Chorus:

Don't worry baby, it's gonna be alright
Uncertainty can be a guiding light
I hear voices, ridiculous voices
Out in the slipstream
Let's go, let's go overground
Take your head out of the mud baby

Outro:

She's gonna dream up
The world she wants to live in
She's gonna dream out loud
She's gonna dream out loud

The intro section is so good it could be it's own song. Their brilliance is they attach it to a basic "Ramones" verse/chorus X2 pop song. There aren't even any real chord changes in the back 1/2, and they still manage to create the verse/chorus structure with lyrics, cadence, vocal tone and background vocals being the movers. And a few guitar flourishes. The chorus has a whole different shake to it than the verses.
Click to expand...

Von Schloopen said:
Kite is probably their oddest song in terms of structure.

Verse
Pre-pre-chorus
Pre-chorus
Chorus
Verse
Bridge
Chorus
Verse

I can't think of another U2 song with that structure. I can't think of any other song with that structure. It's fucking odd. And how they resisted repeating that pre-pre-chorus and pre-chorus is beyond me. Cause it's ace. But it works as a tune. Creates an amazing crescendo. They were right.

And there you have it. The most progressive and experimental songwriting U2 have ever put to tape was on a record that gets derided for not being progressive or experimental. Insane.
Click to expand...

This is some quasi-redhill level ridiculousness.
 
What the fuck did I just stumble upon?


:crack: This entire discussion makes no sense. It is based on incorrect assumptions and reason is far from it. Did I accidentally find the Morrissey thread again?
 
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