I'm not saying there is justification, but my point is you don't need justification anymore. You don't have justification to stop a young person when coming out of a bar until after you ID them, suspicion is enough. And it happens all the time, especially in college towns, they need the revenue.
Since you don't fine those who are here illegally there is no revenue incentive, but my fear is that they will create some kind of quota incentive, and that suspicion will be enough now for certain cops to start harassing people.
Careful here.
I was saying that suspicion justifies the initial stop in the case of the suspected minor at the bar.
Nowhere in the AZ law does it state in any way that certain cops can use "reasonable suspicion" (brown, leaving a construction site, paint on his pants) to justify an initial investigatory stop.
Justification is not a standard, it is just the word I used to describe the reasonable suspicion of being a minor as legitimate versus the illegitimate reasonable suspicion based on race or appearance independent of age issues.
The only standards for stops that exist as far as I know, unless a law enforcement officer or lawyer wants to correct me here, are reasonable suspicion and probable cause. Justification or a synonym thereof does not factor in unless you are describing the use of one of those standards.
I hope I made sense.
Exactly, I think this law is only designed to pick up votes from the tea bag crowd. That's it. There was no need for the law. Absolutely none.
Well, there you go.
They do not even try to hide it.
The same kind of laws picked up steam at the same time in 2006.
In Massachusetts, we now have local Republican politicians for whom knowing their ass from their elbow in general is questionable, never mind on federal immigration matters! Nonetheless, they are making it the "centerpiece" of their campaigns.
The problem with 85% of the Republican Party and their right wing allies is they could care less about this issue until election time comes around and they can whip up their base over it.
Obama really needs to press forward with immigration reform this year as a solution to this, and really play up the national security, border control, law enforcement and fine provisions of the bill.
Call out the people who say the feds are unwilling to act. When swift action is proposed, they will be the 1st to call it "amnesty" and "surrender" and the 1st to filibuster.