$150 for 25 songs?

[bonosleftone]

I think 150 is reasonable for the amount of stuff U2 is selling. Imagine how much it would cost if you tried to track it down on CD or vinyl?

And you get U2 3

But I guess A LOT of people are just fixated on those songs from the ATYCLB and HTDAAB sessions.

.

You dont get it though. A LOT of us HAVE the majority of that stuff already. The only thing those of us that do own it already want are the unreleased tracks. Why should I rebuy all that stuff that I can legally rip to MP3 or even AAC at much better quality when the only thing of interest to me are around 12-15 tracks at best?

Now how come a new fan who doesnt have the albums/singles, gets a shot at the unreleased stuff when they buy from Itunes, and us long time fans who have bought everything physically on the day of release or by having to hunt things down on Ebay, be forced again to shell out more money for material that we already own 97% of???

 

[petethechopp]

Also, I agree with David. I'm more interested in Beautiful Ghost than anything else. In fact, the temptation of hearing a new song from The Joshua Tree days might just push me over the edge.

 

[bonosleftone]

Okay, that gives me some cost perspective. I think something close to the Nirvana set would be nice. But I think $150 would be about right, maybe a bit low, for what they're offering as a physical set; in comparison to the Zepplin set. But wouldn't it be better as a physical set. Isn't that the reason why all of us who downloaded HTDAAB two weeks ago went out and bought it?

Of course a physical set would be nice, and its not of the question. Most bands don't release complete catalog sets until after their career is over or winding down. However these businesscunts dont take into account that there is a large and loyal fanbase that has bought a lot of this stuff already.

Its a totally different situation with the Led Zeppelin set as that stuff had never been released on CD in remastered quality.

This Itunes thing is clearly a promotional thing and is really a test market. If the U2 set sells well you can bet your bottom dollar that other artists are going to jump on the bandwagon and do the same thing with Apple and Itunes.

I do believe that eventually U2 will release a unreleased physical box set akin to the Nirvana set, its just not feasible for them to do it now. I mean hell Nirvana's career was roughly 3 years in the limelight and a total of 7 altogether. It took TEN years to get that set out.

I dont care about the catalog set, I just want the unreleased stuff.

 

[petethechopp]

I don't think the unreleased stuff is coming out in another form. That's my point. I think its exclusive to itunes now. That's what the band gave up for all those "free" vertigo ads and publicity. That's what i think is greedy and just plain stinks. Now its "If ya want rare new U2, then you've got no choice but itunes and whatever they want to hang you out for!"

 

[mofo82]

You dont get it though. A LOT of us HAVE the majority of that stuff already. The only thing those of us that do own it already want are the unreleased tracks. Why should I rebuy all that stuff that I can legally rip to MP3 or even AAC at much better quality when the only thing of interest to me are around 12-15 tracks at best?

Now how come a new fan who doesnt have the albums/singles, gets a shot at the unreleased stuff when they buy from Itunes, and us long time fans who have bought everything physically on the day of release or by having to hunt things down on Ebay, be forced again to shell out more money for material that we already own 97% of???

hola lefty...quite different thread than our movie, aint it ?

I think as far as the 'why should a newbie get teh same chance as I do' arguement can't stand much. Why should Propaganda members, regardless of how long they were fans, have all gotten the Melon CD? For all it matters, the new unreleased tracks can mean squat to a longtime listener and everything in the world to a new fan. There's so many personal attachements to song/ music that I don't think you can say one deserves more than the next. Plus, from a sales standpoint, how would that make Apple/ U2 look if they start to get choosey with their customers. They have to give everyone a fair shot now, while the product is new. Every customer is an equal. How would it feel to be the customer who didn't get the special tracks just because I wasn't around long enough to be labeled "big time fan"? Its sort of a form of discrimination...

 

[bonosleftone]

hola lefty...quite different thread than our movie, aint it ?

I think as far as the 'why should a newbie get teh same chance as I do' arguement can't stand much. Why should Propaganda members, regardless of how long they were fans, have all gotten the Melon CD? For all it matters, the new unreleased tracks can mean squat to a longtime listener and everything in the world to a new fan. There's so many personal attachements to song/ music that I don't think you can say one deserves more than the next. Plus, from a sales standpoint, how would that make Apple/ U2 look if they start to get choosey with their customers. They have to give everyone a fair shot now, while the product is new. Every customer is an equal. How would it feel to be the customer who didn't get the special tracks just because I wasn't around long enough to be labeled "big time fan"? Its sort of a form of discrimination...

Im not saying don't offer to the "new fan". My point is that Apple/U2/Whoever is in charge of the idea should've made it possible for the people who do own everything to purchase the unreleased stuff seperately.

Its not a matter of who will find the material more enriching or not. All customers should be able to get the unreleased tracks but they should also be available to those who aren't interested in the entire set. It's not a matter of choosing the customers, make it available to all in single track form. I have absolutely no qualms at all with paying .99 for a track I want to upgrade or have never heard. I do have a problem with shelling out $99 (I have the I-Pod coming) for a digital box set containing over 400 songs that I already have and can rip at a better quality perfectly legally.

Hell, theres probably a lot of people who've purchased the entire set that arent happy with a lot of the music. They make 95% of it available singularly, and 5% exclusive to the set alone.

This side of the argument doesnt even take into account the people that live in Oz and other countries with healthy U2 fanbases that can't even get the Complete because I-Tunes doesnt service them.

 

[mofo82]

Im not saying don't offer to the "new fan". My point is that Apple/U2/Whoever is in charge of the idea should've made it possible for the people who do own everything to purchase the unreleased stuff seperately.

Its not a matter of who will find the material more enriching or not. All customers should be able to get the unreleased tracks but they should also be available to those who aren't interested in the entire set. It's not a matter of choosing the customers, make it available to all in single track form. I have absolutely no qualms at all with paying .99 for a track I want to upgrade or have never heard. I do have a problem with shelling out $99 (I have the I-Pod coming) for a digital box set containing over 400 songs that I already have and can rip at a better quality perfectly legally.

Hell, theres probably a lot of people who've purchased the entire set that arent happy with a lot of the music. They make 95% of it available singularly, and 5% exclusive to the set alone.

This side of the argument doesnt even take into account the people that live in Oz and other countries with healthy U2 fanbases that can't even get the Complete because I-Tunes doesnt service them.

I hear ya. Even though I may seem pro Itunes in everyway, I'm not, but I can't stand when people flat out say that the only reasoning behind this collaboration between U2 and ipod is greed. Anyone who has followed U2 and understands the depths of mind and personality would really see through the ad campaigns and the surface work, and see that this can really bring about some fair change. Apple is gonna hold on to their crown for a while, but I do believe in time that other companies will compete for that crown. It just so happens U2 is King of their Domain (a little seinfeld reference never hurts )

 

[stoven]

Well... I am a bit opposed to the box set. I am tired of hearing people complain about it and begging for links to the songs though. The reason I am opposed to the box set is because it's on iTunes. iTunes sound quality is not as good as a CD, and if they ever release a future complete U2 in physical format, then you've just wasted $150.

 

[Shade]

I hear ya. Even though I may seem pro Itunes in everyway, I'm not, but I can't stand when people flat out say that the only reasoning behind this collaboration between U2 and ipod is greed. Anyone who has followed U2 and understands the depths of mind and personality would really see through the ad campaigns and the surface work, and see that this can really bring about some fair change. Apple is gonna hold on to their crown for a while, but I do believe in time that other companies will compete for that crown. It just so happens U2 is King of their Domain (a little seinfeld reference never hurts )

I think you've made some excellent arguments, but, do you think it's possible that you may be overthinking this a little in order to protect the integrity of the band as you see them? They are human, after all. I'm not saying it's out and out greed that drives things like this, but as fans, we have a tendency to deify these four men, and that can lead to both blind acceptance and disappointment. I'm not making any accusations about you, either, but I think it's something we all run the risk of. The nature of fanhood and all that.

 

[ascender_RS]

I can't see them releasing a complete works on CD - U2 have just released too much. So 150, I think, is a fair price considering what you get.

The other thing worth considering is that U2 have said a few things in the past about out-takes, demos etc.

1. Although they demo a lot of songs for an album, they don't have a lot of stuff leftover that is of a sufficient "quality" to release apart from what we see on b-sides. So they've always said that a box-set of this sort of rare stuff is very unlikely.

2. They like to hold over good songs or song ideas for future albums.

So at the moment I can't see a rarities box-set, although I'm sure we'd all love one.

So..... these 12 or so properly unlreleased tracks would mean a lot to the "hardcore" fans. Hell, we'd even buy them at 79p a song or whatever it normally is. But we can't. And that's a kick in the teeth for me. I honestly didn't believe that there would be this sort of unreleased stuff in there but now that there is, its nothing but a cynical ploy from the record company.

 

[mofo82]

I think you've made some excellent arguments, but, do you think it's possible that you may be overthinking this a little in order to protect the integrity of the band as you see them? They are human, after all.

It may seem that way. As much as it seems I may be trying to protect the integrity of the band, I read several posts that to me were blank potshots at the band. When I saw that happening, I just wanted to step in, throw some thought around, play a little devil's advocate. I needed to figure out why I would support paying the money I did for the ipod and why I would want to buy the box set. It helped me answer some of those 'why U2 and apple/ did they merely sell out' questions for myself. I think their association with apple will generally be a good thing. I never said it was great, fantastic, or a god send, but I do like that it may give credit where credit is due for musicians.

 

[mofo82]

Mine is not a blind acceptance. It definitely took some thinking for me to finally decide it was the right decision to buy one.

 

[bonosleftone]

haha mofo go look at the U2 vs Linkin Park thread in the main Everything You Know is Wrong forum

 

[Shade]

It may seem that way. As much as it seems I may be trying to protect the integrity of the band, I read several posts that to me were blank potshots at the band. When I saw that happening, I just wanted to step in, throw some thought around, play a little devil's advocate. I needed to figure out why I would support paying the money I did for the ipod and why I would want to buy the box set. It helped me answer some of those 'why U2 and apple/ did they merely sell out' questions for myself. I think their association with apple will generally be a good thing. I never said it was great, fantastic, or a god send, but I do like that it may give credit where credit is due for musicians.

I appreciate you discourse on the subject. There are, two things I want to mention, though. One, I have to disagree about the 'potshot' thing. We're dealing with real fans, here, not people out to injure the band in some way just for kicks. Under ordinary circumstances, issues like this wouldn't even arise, given the reason that we're all here. But, some people are trying to reconcile what they've been hearing from the band for years and what they are now seeing from them, and because of the personal connection that U2 fans generally feel with the men in this band through their music, I think it's understandable that people may take something like the iTunes issue personally, and get upset and hit out like you do when you feel hurt by someone you care about. But, I don't think there's true maliciousness or meanspiritedness involved in these posts. That's my perception, of course.

Another aspect of your argument that I wondered about - and it may well be my own ignorance about the subject at work - is whether it really CAN change things in the end, the way you've outlined. it seems to me that, unless iTunes has found a way of keeping their files from being shared on P2P networks, or an effective way of policing the entire Internet, all it takes is one person legally downloading these tracks and then illegally spreading them for free to undermine the entire enterprise. It seems as though U2 and iTunes are actually making it easier for people to pirate exclusive material that's offered on their site, not harder. The only difference is that they don't have to rip the material from a CD before putting it up for grabs. Is there something I'm missing there, or what?

 

[Shade]

Mine is not a blind acceptance. It definitely took some thinking for me to finally decide it was the right decision to buy one.

Like I said, I wasn't trying to accuse you of that. I was using it as an example of what can happen when people do deify their idols. As a personal example from several years ago, I was seriously burnt by some idols of mine, a band I regarded the same way I do U2, and who were just as socially active in the world. I'm not going to name them, because I think everybody should be a fan of their music, regardless of personality issues. But, I'd convinced myself there was no way these guys could possibly be jerks, because of the fierce compassion in their music and their social actions. Then, I met them! What a mistake that was. And, as a result, I don't really have idols, anymore. Because, you never know what human beings are capable of. It's easy to have an experience that makes you cynical when expectations are too high or you regard people as being incapable of certain types of behavior that, unfortunately, can come quite naturally. In other, more blunt terms, it's possible for good people to be real jerks, every once in a while. That's what I was really getting at, and I apologize if I made you feel I was attacking you.

 

[iota]

The main point of starting this thread was

A. the unreleased material appeals only to the hardcore fan.

B. the unreleased material is being used as a marketing ploy, otherwise, why couldn't you download these tracks seperately LIKE ALL THE OTHER TRACKS?

I have no problem with U2 making money remarketing thier back catalogue. I understand the arguments Mofo82 is making, and they are good arguments for U2 rereleasing thier albums online, and yes, the AMOUNT of music being offered IS dirt cheap. However, the fact that every ad for the "box set" advertises the rare material to draw in the longtime listener and makes it impossible to seperately download THOSE particular tracks, while the others are available proves that they are basically, through clever marketing tricks, trying to get seasoned fans to repurchase the majority of music they already have to get these tracks.

The simple fact remains...you can seperately download every track BUT these tracks, so THEY are obviously the main selling point, not the 14 albums of already released material.

And yes, I took some potshots at the band here, but with this band being what it is; thriving on personal connections with people like me who have been along for the ride for about 15 years rabidly, to be treated like this...basically having the band KNOWINGLY manipulate me, makes me a little less excited about the band, because I see what they pretend to be, and now as they slowly sell out to fan-manipulation, I am wondering which of these two faces is now the true one.

Look, if this was a Los Lonely Boys board this wouldn't be an issue. There are bands and then there is U2. But now U2 is just another band that stoops to cheap manipulative gimmicks to rip off the loyal fanbase.

 

[iota]

Also, come on.

You can love and respect U2, but if "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" then pointing out when the band isn't living up to their sterling reputation can also be an act of love for the band.

The potshots I took were not malicious, but disappointment, because this was the last band I ever imagined would pull a manipulative stunt like this.

 

[pghas]

On the one hand, I can see the frustration many of you must be feeling about this. Many of you have worked for years building your U2 collections and somewhat justifiably feel ripped off by not being able to download the rare tunes individually. I can understand that...

On the other hand, itunes generally offers songs at $.99/each, and single albums with more than 10 songs are often $9.99, which other than major releases during their first week of sale at Best Buy, is cheaper than you'd pay in a store. Then on top of that, this particular collection is priced at about $.34/song, which is dirt cheap. If they released the 2 live concerts separately each on 2 -disc sets, and the rarities on another 2 disc-set, this would end up costing at least $20/pop and equal $60 (even those of you that own bootleg copies would likely cave in and purchase these). Then make up a soundtracks disc for say $12, and HTDAAB at $12 and you're already shelling out $84. I mnean, it looks to me like other than more live recordings - of which there seem to be an awful lot of in the set - there just isn't much more stuff they could include to entrice the diehard. And those of you who already have everything have clearly been dogged in your pursuit and resourceful in your desire to accumulate everything. A little more of the same will easily land you the tracks you're after. I am SURE you'll all have them soon enough.

Then again, I'm in a totally different position. I loved U2 20 years ago, up through around 1989, and then my interest in them dropped off a bit(though of course not completely), only to now be re-awakened by this new album. I had all of their albums except Zooropa and Pop at some point or another, but over the years my copies of October, War, Wide Awake, Joshua Tree and Rattle and Hum vanished. To me, the opportunity to get back all my old U2 albums along with dozens of live cuts, rarities, remixes, etc. for only $150 is a cheap ticket back to the soundtrack of my life 15-20 years ago along with a new soundtrack to go along with what's happening now.

 

[Popmartijn]

*can't remember this much complaining when the Best Of compilations were released*

 

[ramblin rose]

I actually wonder how many people who are complaining and claiming they have everything, actually legally purchased absolutely everything in that Box Set.

Personally, I think a few might have, others definately haven't. And unless you have legally purchased the four hundred some odd songs you shouldn't be complaining.

Look through your collections and see what is an actual legal purchase versus what you downloaded. I don't think U2 previously sold the point depot show, boy demos, melon, hasta la vista so no one could have purchased those legally (only the propaganda members who received melon and hasta la vista had access to those legally).

I bet when you add it up there are 150 songs @ 99 cents which many of you have yet to pay for.

Ah, but then it comes down to the fact that you only want the rare and previously unreleased, you couldn't care less that you haven't paid for a lot of the other stuff in that boxset.


This obviously does not apply to those people who don't have access to itunes, or to the people that have actually legally purchased absolutely everything that was available to purchase.

Sorry, but no one here will convince me that that is the majority of the complainers (with access to itunes).

I almost feel like searching through those old threads where people listed what u2 material they own, and where many would openly claim, "well I didn't actually buy all the singes l downloaded them". Or "well that doesn't include the closet full of bootlegs I downloaded".

And for the diehard fan who's been following U2 for 20+ years (like me), guess what, I'm sure through the years you paid dearly for things without blinking an eyelash. I'm sure you remember the ridiculous bootleg prices of yesteryear, the pre-internet time, in 2004 dollars you could almost say 1 bootleg might have cost close to the price of that boxset.

What's even sadder is that I'm sure this will all blow over as soon as someone locates the songs on a ptp network, then everyone will be happy again.

 

[Popmartijn]

Exactly!

I have many of those old singles. I really do! But since they're on vinyl (why do I always initially misspell that word BTW? ), I don't have digital files of them. And yes, Boston '81 and Dublin '89 are bootlegs (two of the very few I've bought).
Then again, I was very happy a couple of years ago when I spotted the mega-rare Mofo (Matthew Roberts Explicit Remix) vinyl promo on eBay. I think I bought that one for 80 dollars or so (maybe even more). The promo Excerpts From Rattle And Hum did cost me about the same amount. And the Numb (Edit) promo wasn't cheap either. Now, most of the stuff I've mentionedl have songs not included in The Complete U2, but I hope you get my point. On the one side, many don't hesitate that pay a lot of money for a rare CD, yet they complain that they now have to pay a lot of money for a whole lot of rare songs (even when it breaks down to about 34 cent per song, as mentioned by others). On the other hand, they don't complain when U2 releases a Best Of with only a few new/rare tracks among the many previously-released tracks.



Marty

 

[daneeelj]

This whole thing really is a total rip off. How many of the really new fans who this box set is supposedly for would be very interested in rarities? I don't think there'd be very many. Apple and/or U2 know that the people most interested in these rare/unreleased songs are the big fans who own everything (including rare old records). To chuck in all the other stuff just to justify milking $150 out of us is just terrible. The best thing (I'm just dreaming now) would be if U2 released a box-set of CDs like the Beatles Anthology. Nevertheless, I still love U2 (nothing at all could stop my love for their music), and, yeah, I'll probably be falling for this disgusting ploy. WHEN/IF iTUNES BECOMES AVAILABLE IN AUSTRALIA!!! If U2 do release something nice and fair for us loyal fans, I take back all my comments and replace them with love! But for now,

something else... go to http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunes.html and tell them!

 

[pghas]

1. Part of the beauty of U2 is their timelessness. A 16 year old or a 20 year old or a 35 year old could just be discovering them for the first time and realize that at least 10 of their albums are essentiaql to any collection. That person can then for the same amount of money have their entire catalog.

2. For many fans who are not "diehards" but nonetheless love U2 (and U2 is so popular that their are millions of people n this category) and own 5 or 6 albums (or people whose older albums have disappeared like myself), sure, theu mght not go out and purchase every single album, but for $150 getting the entire collection - when clearly just about everything in there is worth having - is a bargain.

3.The average to serious U2 fan may even have all the albums, but most people don't have all the B-sides, outtakes, and bootlegs that are included in this collection. Many poeople who consider themselves diehards simply own all the albums. For them, this collection offeres about 225 tracks for 150 bucks. Still a great deal.

I would actually submit that this collection is NOT, in fact, targeted at diehards who have nearly everything in it, but more to offer the average to serious fan the opportunity to own the entire catalog for a reasonable price.

Agani, those of you who have scoured the ends of the earth for rarities, bootlegs, and B sides both legally and illegally should have no trouble finding a way to trade for or download the 25 songs you're jonesing for in this set. While it seems unfair to not offer those tracks for individual download, let's face it: U2 are being exceptionally generous in offering up their entire collection for a mere $150. When they tour this year, I'm sure face value of tickets will be close to $100 anyway. So $150 to listen to everything as much as you like is a steal. And I can't let that fact be outweighed by these complaints.

 

[daneeelj]

3.The average to serious U2 fan may even have all the albums, but most people don't have all the B-sides, outtakes, and bootlegs that are included in this collection. Many poeople who consider themselves diehards simply own all the albums. For them, this collection offeres about 225 tracks for 150 bucks. Still a great deal.

I absolutely agree that for a new fan this IS a great deal, but it's pretty obvious that the reason they haven't released the rarities seperately is so that they can rake in shedloads of extra cash from the serious fans. Maybe (hopefully) it's just short-term thing, but it's still a rip-off.

 

[stoven]

What I was hoping for the box set was more rare songs, and more unheard songs... not the dumb remixes. There's like 15 remixes for one song. And for some reason when I add the whole box set to a playlist (I haven't bought yet), it has like 4 copies of each song. I don't know what's up with that.

I have all the albums, and definitely don't have all the singles or any of the rare stuff... all my U2 has been legally purchased, the only thing I downloaded was an elevation show from my home town that I went to. And I don't want to spend $150 to get 12 unheard tracks, and 100 remixes that I don't like and would never listen to.

 

[ramblin rose]

What I was hoping for the box set was more rare songs, and more unheard songs... not the dumb remixes. There's like 15 remixes for one song. And for some reason when I add the whole box set to a playlist (I haven't bought yet), it has like 4 copies of each song. I don't know what's up with that.

I have all the albums, and definitely don't have all the singles or any of the rare stuff... all my U2 has been legally purchased, the only thing I downloaded was an elevation show from my home town that I went to. And I don't want to spend $150 to get 12 unheard tracks, and 100 remixes that I don't like and would never listen to.

That's fair enough.

But then what they released really shouldn't have come as any surprise to you since they said a month ago the Boxset would only contain approximately 25 "rare and previously unreleased tracks".

 

[pghas]

Well, there may not be that many more unheard songs. Other than covers, I have yet to see anyone on this board put together a substantial list of original U2 material that wasn't included. Perhaps a few more concerts would have been nice, although there is a ton of live stuff if you add up the 3/4 concerts that are included plus all the extra b sides.

I mean, you can't ask for stuff that doesn't exist. As it is, you're getting lots of the demos, many of which are clearly inferior to the final products ("native Son" is nowhere near "Vertigo" for example) and thus were never released for that reason. Would you expect them to release songs they had thrown out as not up to their high standards just for posterity's sake?

 

[stoven]

No, I wasn't surprised at the amount of unreleased tracks... I assume that all would be able to have been bought separate for .99 cents. I didn't realize there were like 200 remixes though I won't be buying the set yet anyway because it seems like it has a ton of problems, like the songs being duplicated 5 times. You can select the boxset in the store, then drag it over to make a playlist that will only have the 30 second previews. When I do that, I get like 5 copies from songs on each album. Anybody have that problem? It's not like that when you buy, is it?

 

[uwwedoogie]

why dosen't one rich guy buy it and hsare it with all of us...i'd be willing to take it

 

[stoven]

If someone bought it and shared it, I wouldn't want it. After downloading the AAC, then converting to another format, it would sound like crap. iTunes songs aren't the best quality to begin with... but convert an AAC to MP3, and it's like listening to U2 playing under water.