Well yes - the playoffs expose things that the regular season doesn't.
That aside - the Knicks looked like a team on the rise for the first time in two decades. This will help them in free agency in 2022 provided they can build upon it next year.
NBA 2021 and beyond: Let's Talk Lakers!
- Thread starter Hewson
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
That aside - the Knicks looked like a team on the rise for the first time in two decades. This will help them in free agency in 2022 provided they can build upon it next year.
OP
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
That is no way to earn your waffle fries.
The main reason why my excitement about the Knicks future is much much lower than most Knicks fans is because that man still owns the team.
Listen to Shattered - The Athletic's podcast about the fall of the Knicks after the 90s when you have a chance.
But speaking of Bargnani... I think I shared this once but not sure if you saw it
https://www.slamonline.com/nba/david-west-bosh-and-bargnani-were-damn-near-impossible-to-guard/
I'm with you. Not at all confident that things will not fall apart. As a cynical Knicks fan, where others see cap flexibility, a wealth of picks and young talent, I see an ever-lasting ability to overpay for bad free agents and to make bad trades.
The other thing is that we don't really know that Leon Rose is actually good. He didn't do any damage and took some smart decisions, and is surrounded by generally good people. His patient approach has been good. But being better than Steve Mills is not exactly a major win. The next two offseason are where he needs to prove his chops.
Maybe West meant to say it was nearly impossible for Bargnani to guard anyone?
Seriously, my least favorite Knicks player this century.
lol - I think it was more along the lines of he super skilled but you could disrupt anything he did simply by being overly physical with him, and that I'd he played today vs. 10+ years ago, with the rule changes, he'd be an all star.
Found it interesting that a guy like David West would say that.
And agreed on Rose. He didn't do anything. And his first decision - whether to extend a player who had a career year right before becoming extension eligible (but was dreadful in the playoffs) is going to be a doozy.
Found it interesting that a guy like David West would say that.
And agreed on Rose. He didn't do anything. And his first decision - whether to extend a player who had a career year right before becoming extension eligible (but was dreadful in the playoffs) is going to be a doozy.
I think they just roll it over and exercise their option with Randle, which allows the team to see if this regular season was real, but it also (if I get the cap workings correctly) gives them a bit more flexibility for the 2022 FA class as they will have his Bird Rights and can go over the cap to extend him after potentially signing another FA. It also works for Randle as he would be eligible for super max then, I think.
I didn't like that Rose punted the 33rd pick this year, which was kind of valuable, in a team totally devoid of talent. His decision to pick Obi when Haliburton was available, knowing the black hole that the team has at PG, is questionable at best, even if Obi has shown signs of life lately. I'm curious about their offseason strategy, really, because there is no way to make this team a contender until at least 2022.
I would imagine that the Nets winning the championship might make Dolan pretty antsy, leading to terrible decisions.
10000000000000000000000000000000%
Another tough season for the resident haters:
https://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=401327905
Once again, the silence here is deafening; you'd think we were in the off-season still.
https://www.espn.com/nba/recap?gameId=401327905
Once again, the silence here is deafening; you'd think we were in the off-season still.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
You sure got a big fucking mouth for someone whose loser team hasn't won a championship in... *checks notes*...48 years, despite being in one of the two biggest markets in the country.
I'm sure you guys will do great next time around.
Tell Spike Lee I said hi.
I'm sure you guys will do great next time around.
Tell Spike Lee I said hi.
If that reasoning helps you sleep at night, good for you I guess.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
OP
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Looks like that house of cards I described in January met a stiff wind last night.
I could only watch the first quarter since I have a 5:30 AM eastern reveille, but I saw enough to sleep quite well.
I could only watch the first quarter since I have a 5:30 AM eastern reveille, but I saw enough to sleep quite well.
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
And that supporting cast outside of Lebron and AD is complete dogshit.
The Marc Gasol signing was a total bust (scoreless in the starting lineup last night, took only 1 shot)
Kyle Kuzma is supposed to be the best player on the team outside of the 2 stars, he goes for 2 points in an elimination game?
LeBron will be 37 in December and AD is fragile, that team looks porked for some time.
If only they'd drafted some good young players when they had those high draft picks a few years ago, maybe guys like Julius Randle, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingraham or a D'Angelo Russell, they might have a future.
They got 1 title out of the AD trade, but looks like they mortgaged 10 years of contending to do so.
The Marc Gasol signing was a total bust (scoreless in the starting lineup last night, took only 1 shot)
Kyle Kuzma is supposed to be the best player on the team outside of the 2 stars, he goes for 2 points in an elimination game?
LeBron will be 37 in December and AD is fragile, that team looks porked for some time.
If only they'd drafted some good young players when they had those high draft picks a few years ago, maybe guys like Julius Randle, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingraham or a D'Angelo Russell, they might have a future.
They got 1 title out of the AD trade, but looks like they mortgaged 10 years of contending to do so.
Man, Knicks fans are immune to this shit. We had two Pfizer shots and annual boosters for anti-Knicks rants like decades ago.
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Booker is fantastic.
Bingo.
Nobody should be surprised by what happened. The Suns are a 2 seed. They were competing for the 1 seed into the last week of the season.
The Lakers were the 7 seed. They needed a last second shot to beat Golden State just to get into the playoffs (who then went on to lose at home to Memphis).
This is the expected result.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
That's always the million dollar question. Would you rather have 1 championship sandwiched by 9 shitty seasons? Or 10 seasons where your team is in contention every year but no championships to show for it?
You take the championship. Every time. It doesn't matter that it was a Bubble title. It counts - much like it doesn't matter to Toronto that the Warriors dropped dead just in time, nor does it matter to the Bad Boy Pistons that Magic Johnson barely played during their first finals win. It's a title.
That said - they had the opportunity to do both. They could have waited a year to sign AD and kept many of those players Hewson mentioned. But that didn't fit the Klutch Sports timeline. They could have filed the trade paperwork properly and had enough cash to sign another max player, but Rob Pelinka fucked that up.
It's not a disaster because they have a ring. But the trade is very similar to the Knicks when they went in too early for Melo and gave away the house for no reason. That trade is a disaster because they only got one 50 win season out of it and then the house of cards collapsed. This one? Hey, they got a ring. But they acquiesced to Lebron's timeline and mortgaged the future in exchange.
All time great players tend to cover up the misdeeds of management. And Pelinka can thank LeBron for his job security. But it's been a bit of a shit show.
Bron's first year - signing a bunch of non shooting vets and playing them over the young kids.
They butchered the coaching search - losing their first two targets to the Suns and Clippers (as an assistant no less) before settling on Vogel.
Choosing Kuzma over Ingram.
Letting Howard walk to sign the ghost of Marc Gasol.
Signing Magic Drummond and thinking that it would work in any way.
Letting Danny Green walk because the fans for pissed at him for a bad finals game.
Trading Zubac across town for a box of rocks.
Letting Thomas Bryant walk for nothing.
Jordan Clarkson won 6th Man - for Utah.
Julius Randle won Most Improved Player - for New York.
Brandon Ingram was last year's MIP and an all star.
Shit even D'Angelo Russell has been an all star.
Larry Nance Jr. has developed into a solid rotation player, as has Moe Wagner and Svi Mykhailiuk.
They are a poorly run organization who also happens to have a top 5 (probably top 2) all time player to cover up for their mistakes (because be wanted to make movies).
But they have a ring, and you can't take that away. But instead of flexibility and a cache of young talent, they have an aging star and a generational big who (much like Embiid) can not stay healthy. He's glass. It's a feature, not a bug. Worth it, because he's that good - but you need to hope that the inevitable injury happens early enough to get him healthy for the playoffs (or a pandemic gives you a three month recovery period prior to the playoffs... whatever works). Otherwise you're sunk every year (just like Philly. It's almost as if most massive human beings are better off not trying to move like small guards... alas).
But most of this is probably wrong because the Knicks have been historically terrible.
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LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Championship. The Nationals are old, have no money and probably won't sniff another playoff run for a decade, but I'll savor the 2019 World Series as long as I live. That was my favorite season of any team I love, and I say that having been fortunate enough to live in the midwest for the Blackhawks' 2010s dynasty. It was magical and a decade of losing can't take that away.
Same for LA. But man it would be great if the Pelicans got their shit together and bounced the Lakers in the playoffs sometime soon-ish. It doesn't seem likely.
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Championship in most circumstances. Not all. I can’t even watch baseball because of hard feelings over that franchise and I probably never will feel the same again.
To be clear, I wouldn’t give up 2003. That was magic. But I wasn’t old enough for 97. I’ll give that one up!
To be clear, I wouldn’t give up 2003. That was magic. But I wasn’t old enough for 97. I’ll give that one up!
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
The only thing I will say in defense of "No championship but relevance" argument is that as a Packers fan, even though we haven't won a championship in 10 years, the constant winning has helped the local economy in a huge way. As a small market team, if we were to fall into irrelevance/losing for 20 years, that would crush the city.
I will always take the title. If you win the ring, the rest is worth it.
The title doesn't absolve management from making shitty decisions, but it certainly does buy them some time.
The title doesn't absolve management from making shitty decisions, but it certainly does buy them some time.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
take it from a phillies fan. the ring in 2008 was absolutely worth the decade-plus of mediocrity that followed. this opinion may change if they miss the postseason for another 10 seasons, but for now i'd always take the championship.
the raptors may very well turn out to be one of those teams over the 2020s but i'm confident that i'll still say the same thing if that does come to pass.
the raptors may very well turn out to be one of those teams over the 2020s but i'm confident that i'll still say the same thing if that does come to pass.
iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
As a Cleveland fan, I wouldn't trade that championship for 20 years of contention.
Jerry Dunk
Refugee
Philadelphia-Atlanta is a really interesting series now that Embiid's health is going to be an ongoing question. Trae Young is the one archetype of player (high volume scoring small guard with speed) that Simmons struggles to guard (like Devin Booker), so the Sixers will likely need to rely more on Thybulle to check him. Despite being an all-world defender, Thybulle is tough to build lineups around because he is basically a zero on offense (cannot dribble, and is a low-30s %3PT shooter). Howard needs to be limited in his minutes because he clogs up the offense and commits a ton of fouls, which means they need to go small ball quite a bit. That's tough with Capela playing as well as he is right now.
The Sixers' defense obviously suffers without Embiid. Their "third center" is stretch-4 Mike Scott, who has been atrocious this season and needs to see as little time as possible. He's a three point specialist who isn't hitting threes. So this series may end up being more of a high scoring series because the Sixers will end up sacrificing defense for offense every time they elect to put Simmons in as a small ball 5.
Still, the Sixers' team defense is quite good in the halfcourt, with guys like Thybulle, Simmons, and Danny Green giving them a decent amount of flexibility to keep the rest of the Hawks lineup from getting too involved. Harris is a solid enough defender to not be a concern on that end like he was in years' past. And the emergence of Tyrese Maxey as a spark off the bench has been a blessing in the wake of Shake Milton's game falling off a cliff. With he and George Hill coming off the bench, they have steadier hands that can play when Simmons is on the bench, or even in end-of-game situations. Simmons does not necessarily need to handle the ball in the last two minutes now that they have a sure ball handler and solid shooter in Hill, who can be inserted into the lineup for Curry or Thybulle depending on the situation.
We'll see what happens. It's a Doc Rivers team, so they may revert to his standard rotations with Scott at the 5 if the small ball gets wrecked by Capela, but he showed more creativity in Game 5 against the Wizards than I was expecting. I hope he follows that instinct.
The Sixers' defense obviously suffers without Embiid. Their "third center" is stretch-4 Mike Scott, who has been atrocious this season and needs to see as little time as possible. He's a three point specialist who isn't hitting threes. So this series may end up being more of a high scoring series because the Sixers will end up sacrificing defense for offense every time they elect to put Simmons in as a small ball 5.
Still, the Sixers' team defense is quite good in the halfcourt, with guys like Thybulle, Simmons, and Danny Green giving them a decent amount of flexibility to keep the rest of the Hawks lineup from getting too involved. Harris is a solid enough defender to not be a concern on that end like he was in years' past. And the emergence of Tyrese Maxey as a spark off the bench has been a blessing in the wake of Shake Milton's game falling off a cliff. With he and George Hill coming off the bench, they have steadier hands that can play when Simmons is on the bench, or even in end-of-game situations. Simmons does not necessarily need to handle the ball in the last two minutes now that they have a sure ball handler and solid shooter in Hill, who can be inserted into the lineup for Curry or Thybulle depending on the situation.
We'll see what happens. It's a Doc Rivers team, so they may revert to his standard rotations with Scott at the 5 if the small ball gets wrecked by Capela, but he showed more creativity in Game 5 against the Wizards than I was expecting. I hope he follows that instinct.
OP
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Normally title s the easy answer...but that's assuming you wouldn't win one or more in the next decade without unloading all that talent for Davis.
They got LeBron before unloading all the young talent (mostly for AD), aside from Randle who left that same off season in free agency, that team might have blossomed and won a couple titles before Lebron retired.
GirlsAloudFan
Blue Crack Addict
I might be reading this wrong so I just want to clarify. Are you trying to insinuate that the Lakers trade for Anthony Davis wasn't a good move for the Lakers?
