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Old 01-30-2020, 10:00 AM   #641
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So it looks like tomorrow will be the last day of the impeachment saga. I think immediately after, since it’s now ok to do so, the Democratic Party should reach out to all foreign nations to announce investigations into Trump’s business dealings. All bets are off.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:39 AM   #642
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Why wouldn't Trump cancel the election after tomorrow? Seems to be in his best interest as President
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:52 AM   #643
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I think as of tomorrow, Bloomberg (and many others like him with deep pockets) need to concentrate all efforts on flipping the Senate. It should be non-stop, 24/7 attack ads against everyone who votes to not allow witnesses. Gloves off, treat them the way they would treat Democrats if the roles were reversed.

Even the average Joe knows this level of intransigence is totally without precedent. There is no such thing as a trial without witnesses and that has to be pounded again and again and again.

And then concentrate voting efforts on women. Trump is toxic with them, even the suburban idiots who voted for him the first time. If he loses, it will be because of women. Let's make it so.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:11 AM   #644
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Just an FYI: Trying to call my senators this morning, and once i select my (Republican) Senator, it's disconnected.

That about sums up all of this shit perfectly
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:20 AM   #645
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i wish i had Senators.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:20 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I think as of tomorrow, Bloomberg (and many others like him with deep pockets) need to concentrate all efforts on flipping the Senate. It should be non-stop, 24/7 attack ads against everyone who votes to not allow witnesses. Gloves off, treat them the way they would treat Democrats if the roles were reversed.

Even the average Joe knows this level of intransigence is totally without precedent. There is no such thing as a trial without witnesses and that has to be pounded again and again and again.

And then concentrate voting efforts on women. Trump is toxic with them, even the suburban idiots who voted for him the first time. If he loses, it will be because of women. Let's make it so.
It is ALL about the Senate. Even if Trump wins, If Dems hold both houses, we could still survive. Maybe.
If he loses, and Dems hold both houses. Then actually real change could happen
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:21 AM   #647
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i wish i had Senators.
well to be fair. I don't actually have Senators either. I have two republican boot-lickers that do nothing in the interest of their constituents.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:23 AM   #648
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on the bright side:

Quote:
McConnell’s desired process of muscling through a wildly unpopular vote to suppress all evidence, followed by a vote to acquit, would rob the outcome of much of the legitimacy Republicans crave. It would instead be widely and accurately seen as a cover-up.

Such an outcome would, in turn, legitimize House Democratic efforts to continue the investigation. They can continue to press for Bolton’s testimony, and continue prying loose the documents Trump has withheld. To the extent a Senate trial was perceived as thorough and fair, it would have made additional investigations look like sore-loser-ism. Republicans will say it anyway, but the national media will be far more likely to take such probes seriously in the wake of an overt cover-up.

At the same time, a criminal investigation is proceeding from the Department of Justice. That investigation has already led one of Trump’s co-conspirators, Lev Parnas, to flip on him and reveal a trove of incriminating evidence. Because the House has largely ignored the Giuliani-Parnas-Fruman scheme and focused tightly on the president, the full depth of sleaze and corruption has not sunk in. But Giuliani’s scheme is a far deeper cesspool than anything cited by the House. The president’s personal lawyer was shaking down Ukraine for money as well as political gain, and seemed to be paid for it by a Kremlin agent. The scandal is revealing Trump and Russia colluding to recorrupt Ukraine.

From the very beginning, Democrats have followed an informal norm that impeachment should not impinge on the presidential campaign. That self-declared constraint forced the House to work quickly, and is now being used in the Senate as a weapon against more evidence. One revealing moment in the dynamic came last night, when a pair of Republican senators teed up a softball question for the Trump lawyers, asking them to estimate how long the trial would take if all the Democratic requests for evidence were granted. “It would take a long time,” warned Jay Sekulow, “months … This would be the first of many weeks.”

This threat underscored the method Trump has used all along to ward off accountability. He threatens to exhaust every avenue to withhold evidence, running out the clock, and then uses the fear of a lengthy process as a shield. Trump will drag it out, and then Democrats will be blamed for running the process into the election season.

But what if you assume, instead, that the cover-up affixes the blame onto Republicans? That the sheer nakedness of their methods liberates Democrats from the self-imposed constraint of respecting the election-year norm? They can keep digging into Trump from next week through fall, keeping public attention not only on his corruption and abuse of power but also on the Republican conviction that abuse of power is permissible. If impeachment is about exacting a price for Trump’s misconduct, perhaps the highest price will come by letting his enablers reveal exactly how far they are willing to go.

Let McConnell Block Evidence, Then Keep Investigating Trump
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:24 AM   #649
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well to be fair. I don't actually have Senators either. I have two republican boot-lickers that do nothing in the interest of their constituents.

the senate has ceased to function as an actual legislative body.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:30 AM   #650
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on the bright side:
I was thinking about this same thing yesterday.
75% of the public want witnesses.
That means half of Repubs and Indy's want witnesses.

If they get blatently blocked. I do think there will be a small but VERY significant number of those people that would either not vote or vote for a moderate Dem in 2020. And even more likely punish their senators for going along with this bullshit.

This would be even pushed further if Bolton's info comes out in a few weeks, Lev and even others come out of the woodwork in the coming months.
It will show that this was a cover up and leave some moderate R's and Indy's pretty pissed or disillusioned.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:41 AM   #651
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This trial is already a success.

Dershowitz's statements plus the vote to turn down witnesses will now run on TV ad nauseum in every purple district in America from here till November.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:59 AM   #652
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it was the vulnerable "moderates" -- Gardner, McSally, Toomey -- who want this to end as quickly as possible. the longer it goes on the worse it gets for them. they'd rather explain a cover up than be tied to the gory details that are coming.

while at the time i was all for the Kavanaugh investigation because it was the right thing to do, that total intentionally half-assed investigation gave the sense of cover for R Senators.

this is far, far more gruesome.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:14 PM   #653
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Why wouldn't Trump cancel the election after tomorrow? Seems to be in his best interest as President
Really? The right wing has enough wacky conspiracy theorists for us all. There's a lot at stake here, yes, but there's no need to indulge in this kind of the-sky-is-falling conjecture.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:27 PM   #654
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Really? The right wing has enough wacky conspiracy theorists for us all. There's a lot at stake here, yes, but there's no need to indulge in this kind of the-sky-is-falling conjecture.


I’d normally agree with you but Trump is the kind of guy that would actually consider this.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:34 PM   #655
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This trial is already a success.

Dershowitz's statements plus the vote to turn down witnesses will now run on TV ad nauseum in every purple district in America from here till November.
Agreed.

quick question here. I know Cory Gardner is not bright. But he is going to get his ass handed to him by Hickenlooper. Why do these people continue to vote for a president that is doing them no good politically? Same for these other schmucks in purple states and like my asshole Senator, retiring!
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:38 PM   #656
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Really? The right wing has enough wacky conspiracy theorists for us all. There's a lot at stake here, yes, but there's no need to indulge in this kind of the-sky-is-falling conjecture.
While canceling the election is a step to far for belief. Obviously wouldn't fly in any way. But Trump could now essentially do this by what other people have mentioned here. Block polling places. Close polling places. Unilaterally state that everyone needs ID's issued within the last 3 years for certain swing states. Ask for cyber attacks from foreign countries during the state of the union. All of it would now be fair game, with no consequences.
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Old 01-30-2020, 01:07 PM   #657
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Really? The right wing has enough wacky conspiracy theorists for us all. There's a lot at stake here, yes, but there's no need to indulge in this kind of the-sky-is-falling conjecture.
Where is the bottom in all of this? Where will he and the GOP "stop"? They went from:

There was no crime
That's not a crime
Ok, it's a crime but he didn't mean it
The President cannot commit crimes

While cancelling an election is an extreme theory, it's really only a step above him not LEAVING the white house if he's defeated.

This country has no check on the Executive Branch. From November 4th 2016 we've heard nothing but excuses. Trump will pivot to center. Congress will hold him in check. Federal Justices will strike down his laws. He won't survive Comey firing. The Generals will protect us. Mueller will save us. He's going to resign for health reasons. 2018 Midterm will hold him accountable. Peolsi is playing 3D chess. House will impeach (they did!). He'll resign after the witnesses come out....

What's next?

This election will not be fair, especially after Trump is let off the hook for cheating. He cheated in 2016, he cheated again with Ukraine (and you could argue China), and after tomorrow there's no reason to think he won't do it again, and do something worse.

Edit:
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Old 01-30-2020, 01:55 PM   #658
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https://twitter.com/dcpoll/status/12...314744832?s=21
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:41 PM   #659
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Yea Rand Paul is violating the Whistleblower Protection Act in real time because known liberal deep state agent (checks notes) Chief Justice John Roberts refused to mention his name in the Senate.
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:47 PM   #660
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Bolton is showing himself as a weak piece of shit just like all the rest.

This book which seems to be so important to him, where he didn't want to step on it by coming into testify in congress voluntarily - now is being threatened to be blocked entirely by the White House.
Why is this sniveling coward not at every microphone and news outlet right now telling what happened? His book is dead in the water anyway. It's either going to be stripped of anything interesting, or blocked. Or, if he talked now, people might actually want to buy it because he stepped up and did the right thing. But... no. Of course not.

I've never felt this disillusioned about pretty much everything.
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