US Politics XVIII: the illegitimate partisan sham thread

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My worrie about Bloombie is that he’ll be too “cosmopolitan” in the states that actually matter. Winning California by 70 points doesn’t help.

He’s also hated by the gun nut crowd.
 
Irvine511 said:
My worrie about Bloombie is that he’ll be too “cosmopolitan” in the states that actually matter. Winning California by 70 points doesn’t help.

He’s also hated by the gun nut crowd.
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Maybe the one thing to keep in mind is that if it isn't Biden, who connects to the working class, rural moderates, or Sanders, who gets some of the working/rural voters as well, then it might as well be Bloomberg. Warren or Pete aren't going to win that group either, and they are both very weak with minority voters as well.

But I do see your point. Not sure how he will play in some of the swing states. I think he could do well in FL, but not sure on midwest or NC...
To be sure, I think his money will be able to fund huge ground operations in whatever states he wants. (like I said, he has 1000 people already in Missouri) but he could load up WI, and MI, and PA, or wherever else and edge out Trump that way.

One feeling I get from Bloomberg is that he isn't going to let himself lose if he gets to the general. I think he will do anything to defeat Trump. And he has the resources to do it.
 
BEAL said:
Or....

Is it more likely that a bunch of old folk don’t know how to use technology versus some god damn conspiracy against Bernie??

They have the paper trial and all the info. They done fucked up with the app.

The bigger issue is the low turnout. Iowa is saying the levels are at 2016 or slightly below.

There isn’t any excitement for anyone in the Dem camp but the number one issue is still ‘Beat Trump’
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Or...

I never said anything about Bernie Sanders.

I said something about Joe Biden.
 
Bloomberg was asked what he thinks the public thinks about 2 billionaires fighting on Twitter.

He replied "Two billionaires? Who's the second one?"

You know this is killing Trump.
 
DaveC said:
https://twitter.com/HenryJGomez/status/1224553081490354177

"please don't release the results that show our candidate got absolutely clobbered until we can figure out a way to get the campaign off life-support, thanks"
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In an effort to not just criticize Bernie on these sort of things. I will say that this move is ridiculous and pathetic. The talk of a lawsuit if they don't show all the cards, etc... is a weak move, and he should take whatever the results are and move on.
 
anitram said:
Bloomberg was asked what he thinks the public thinks about 2 billionaires fighting on Twitter.

He replied "Two billionaires? Who's the second one?"

You know this is killing Trump.
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You can't teach that sort of quick shredding. He will be formidable in the primary but much more so if he gets to Trump.
 
If Bloomberg were to win the nomination, wouldn't that be the nail in the coffin for Iowa? To have a whole field of 5-10 candidates who all spent a year kissing Iowa's ass all lose to the guy who flipped Iowa the bird and skipped it altogether?
 
namkcuR said:
If Bloomberg were to win the nomination, wouldn't that be the nail in the coffin for Iowa? To have a whole field of 5-10 candidates who all spent a year kissing Iowa's ass all lose to the guy who flipped Iowa the bird and skipped it altogether?
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I dunno. I don't think it will mean much by the time November rolls around. If the number 1 issue is defeating Trump, I don't think the fact that Bloomberg got in late and didn't start into any primaries until super tuesday, will make voters say, no way, I'm not voting for the one guy up against Trump.
Also by that time, Bloomberg will probably have constructed the largest ground operation ever, in every state. It will be a whole new ballgame if he is the nominee.
 
womanfish said:
I dunno. I don't think it will mean much by the time November rolls around. If the number 1 issue is defeating Trump, I don't think the fact that Bloomberg got in late and didn't start into any primaries until super tuesday, will make voters say, no way, I'm not voting for the one guy up against Trump.
Also by that time, Bloomberg will probably have constructed the largest ground operation ever, in every state. It will be a whole new ballgame if he is the nominee.
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That's not what I was saying though. I don't think it would mean anything for his chances in November either. What I was saying is that if Bloomberg were to win the nomination without even competing in Iowa, wouldn't that just add fuel to the fire of 'let's get rid of the Iowa first-in-the-nation Caucus'?
 
namkcuR said:
That's not what I was saying though. I don't think it would mean anything for his chances in November either. What I was saying is that if Bloomberg were to win the nomination without even competing in Iowa, wouldn't that just add fuel to the fire of 'let's get rid of the Iowa first-in-the-nation Caucus'?
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Ah, i gotcha. Sorry.
Yeah, I think it definitely doesn't help their cause. I think it's pretty much a done deal that Iowa gets booted. That would great. Hopefully it will be replaced by a state with a representative population.
 
It would absolutely be the nail in the coffin for Iowa (God willing).

Biden is dropping like a rock in the betting markets.
 
anitram said:
It would absolutely be the nail in the coffin for Iowa (God willing).

Biden is dropping like a rock in the betting markets.
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Stock market through the roof today, with rumors of Biden not doing well and Sanders most likely winning.
 
I will vote for Bloomberg. I imagine he will be a good president. Everyone thinks highly of his mayoral tenure in NYC.

But I also find the thought depressing. That a billionaire can buy his way in — albeit a billionaire with an actual track record in politics, as opposed to Twump — and an earnest intellectual with a lifetime behind her like Warren feels to me like a sure fire loser in the general.

I guess that’s politics. That it’s about getting people to do what you want rather than being the smartest or most passionate or hardest working or whatever.

But goddamn. Trump v Bloomberg depresses me in a historical way.

But if that’s what it takes, that’s what it takes.
 
i love how we're all supposed to be shocked and impressed that a safe boring midwestern white guy (barely) won a safe boring midwestern white state.
 
DaveC said:
i love how we're all supposed to be shocked and impressed that a safe boring midwestern white guy (barely) won a safe boring midwestern white state.
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Well, there are some interesting takeaways though.
The latest poll had Sanders at 28% and Pete at 15%
As of now Sanders is at 25 and Pete up at 27.

This in a way is reminiscent of Obama's start in Iowa.
It reminds us that voters in the end, always have that itch for something new.

It also shows that the lack of excitement behind Biden and lack of newness, came out in the end as his support there collapsed.

And what so far is coming out in these results for Pete? He performed well across the board, no matter what the makeup of the precinct was. And more interestingly, he swept the counties all the way down the Mississippi river, that Bernie won against Clinton. These are the counties that went for Obama and then Trump.

It now remains to be seen what the final results are and then where Pete goes from here. Is this a one hit wonder, or do things really shift in a noticeable way?
 
So hey, good job embarrassing my state last night, people :|. Stop fucking things up so badly and making our party look like a laughing stock, my god. Do they not seem to get just how important it is to NOT screw up this election, or what?

As for the official results themselves, I'm not too surprised by the top 3. I know Pete was quite popular in my neck of the woods-I've seen a lot of signs for him around town here. I figured those three would probably have the strongest showing.

But yes, it'll be interesting to see what kind of wrinkle Bloomberg might throw into the mix.

Irvine511 said:
I will vote for Bloomberg. I imagine he will be a good president. Everyone thinks highly of his mayoral tenure in NYC.

But I also find the thought depressing. That a billionaire can buy his way in — albeit a billionaire with an actual track record in politics, as opposed to Twump — and an earnest intellectual with a lifetime behind her like Warren feels to me like a sure fire loser in the general.

I guess that’s politics. That it’s about getting people to do what you want rather than being the smartest or most passionate or hardest working or whatever.

But goddamn. Trump v Bloomberg depresses me in a historical way.

But if that’s what it takes, that’s what it takes.
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This. I also find it rather sad because we started off with such a diverse field, and yet, if it is Bloomberg vs. Trump, it may come down to two older white guys duking it out. Again.

DaveC said:
i love how we're all supposed to be shocked and impressed that a safe boring midwestern white guy (barely) won a safe boring midwestern white state.
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This is true.
 
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I don’t understand. Is Buttigieg everyone’s number two after Biden not being viable because he’s finishing just shy of 15% in all these rural places? Or what?

No Biden? Then Buttheadguy for pres
 
womanfish said:
Well, there are some interesting takeaways though.

The latest poll had Sanders at 28% and Pete at 15%

As of now Sanders is at 25 and Pete up at 27.



This in a way is reminiscent of Obama's start in Iowa.

It reminds us that voters in the end, always have that itch for something new.



It also shows that the lack of excitement behind Biden and lack of newness, came out in the end as his support there collapsed.



And what so far is coming out in these results for Pete? He performed well across the board, no matter what the makeup of the precinct was. And more interestingly, he swept the counties all the way down the Mississippi river, that Bernie won against Clinton. These are the counties that went for Obama and then Trump.



It now remains to be seen what the final results are and then where Pete goes from here. Is this a one hit wonder, or do things really shift in a noticeable way?
Click to expand...




The boring white guy is also gay and married to a man. That wasn’t possible in 2008. Or even 2012.

I’m think he’s uniquely suited to the Midwest, and could win statewide in Indiana (maybe). And I’m still inclined to think he’s a one-state wonder, but I thought he was going to be 4th. So who knows?
 
I would only call him a one state wonder if the Biden campaign didn’t look like it was totally in shambles. 4th place finish, not even grabbing more than like 3 county majorities, and most importantly... running out of funds.

I’d say that side of the party is back to “fair game” between Butti/Klobuchar/billionaire buy-in.
 
womanfish said:
Well, there are some interesting takeaways though.
The latest poll had Sanders at 28% and Pete at 15%
As of now Sanders is at 25 and Pete up at 27.

This in a way is reminiscent of Obama's start in Iowa.
It reminds us that voters in the end, always have that itch for something new.

It also shows that the lack of excitement behind Biden and lack of newness, came out in the end as his support there collapsed.

And what so far is coming out in these results for Pete? He performed well across the board, no matter what the makeup of the precinct was. And more interestingly, he swept the counties all the way down the Mississippi river, that Bernie won against Clinton. These are the counties that went for Obama and then Trump.

It now remains to be seen what the final results are and then where Pete goes from here. Is this a one hit wonder, or do things really shift in a noticeable way?
Click to expand...

unless he can figure out a way in the next like 2-3 weeks to steal basically all of joe biden's support from minorities, he's going to get demolished in every state that isn't 91% white.
 
Irvine511 said:
The attack ads already write themselves: “you want these people in charge of your health care?”

I agree that this will blow over and no one will think about it in a week, but it is ominous. Democrats have a way of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, and Trump is set to have a good week with SOTU and then his non-acquittal by a rigged jury that he will frame like he’s Nelson Mandela.

If anything, my shift in candidate preferences (as of today) is towards “new” faces who are for a public option and not MFA — Klobuchar, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg.

But, I also agree that this is just stupid Iowa, land of the white and the old. So I realize I’ll probably feel differently in a month.
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Ehhh, yeah, i can see the ads, but as Headache pointed out (and i heard on MSNBC last night before being here) the app e extra voting details, and it getting messed up was the problem. Hopefully it'll blow over disappear.

Uh... OK, I know what AF is, but what is MFA? If it had been MAF; I'd thought "mad as fuck".
Please enlighten. :up:

womanfish said:
I for one am just relieved at the calm and reasoned reporting we are getting this morning while waiting for the results.

So before any results have been seen, my understanding are that the big takeaways are:

1. Biden finished so badly. Maybe like 13 or 14th out of 11. It is just an utter nightmare scenario for his campaign. Ol' Joe will be lucky if he can climb out of bed this morning. Where he should head straight to a therapists office to discuss his existence and why he ever thought he could run in the first place. Maybe even go back and look at if he really won his Senate races, because how could someone that did THIS badly actually win any election.

2. Democracy is dead. Democrats have now destroyed every primary after this and Trump should be declared the winner now and let the Dems save face.
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#2
Deep breaths, wf. Deeeep breaths. :)

( Dont get me wrong, i def have my "on the ledge" moments, hours, and days. )

womanfish said:
IF, Joe really did do poorly last night. And if Pete did very well, that is bad for Joe. One, this will get people in NH to shift over from Joe to Pete, possibly Bernie. And then by the time super tuesday comes along, Pete and Joe will be both have their moderate lane lunch eaten by Bloomberg. And like you said, Amy won't have the resources to make it much farther.

So then you may get yourself to a race with Sanders and Bloomberg at the top and Biden, Pete, and Warren a distant 3,4,5.

The pluses I see for both Sanders and Bloomberg are this.

Sanders is a fighter. He is still sharp enough to debate well, and he plays a lot of the same tricks that Trump does which is a good thing. Also he has a supremely loyal base which helps, and he has been doing much better with minority voters this time around.
Con for Sanders: He can be boiled down to a 2 word label by Trump. Crazy Socialist. Unamerican, blah blah. And that will stick with a lot of people.

Bloomberg. Let's face it. He has the money and resources. He has put out really good ads thus far. He is also putting lots of money into downballot races. He is also someone that I think could dismantle Trump on the debate stage. He's got the sort of tough, get things done persona that appeals to moderate repubs, while not being one of the most disgusting people on earth.
Con: Trump, in most hypocritical terms will hit him on stop and frisk. Maybe call him something really catchy like "Stop and Frisk Mike" :huh: And obviously he does legitimately have issues in the minority community to fix.
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THIS.

Stop and frisk was terrible for too many young, and youngish POC. He will have to work hard. It seems that it started or greatly increased under Giuliani.
Interesting article i took a quick peek at and will have to read the rest of:

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/real-history-stop-and-frisk-article-1.1088494

:hmm: Maaaybe and and very importantly a self-made multi-millionaire like Oprah can do some enlightening him more on the African-American experience.
If he has any decent knowledge of race, and sexism he'll get that Oprah has a lot of accomplishments despite the odds. Neither of them had several million handed to them like drumph had.
 
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DaveC said:
unless he can figure out a way in the next like 2-3 weeks to steal basically all of joe biden's support from minorities, he's going to get demolished in every state that isn't 91% white.
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Right now, Pete's only competition is comprised of the carcass of Biden's campaign that's low on cash and shaky bangs Klobuchar who is basically done outside of the midwest.

When we get to actual delegate-rich states, Pete is going to push up against Bloomberg who has essentially infinite funds and will likely siphon off a good portion of Biden's votes.
 
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