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Old 01-04-2017, 07:11 PM   #21
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Do you understand how this statement is really problematic? Like, you get to deny the lived in experiences of others because ... why, exactly? Because you don't like it when people point out racism?
A statement like that is only problematic because it doesn't adhere to the scripted progressive justice movement. It is true, I do not know what it is like to be a somebody in a protected class, which I gather is the new PC term for minority. Right now the progressive movement is calling balls and strikes. Setting the playing field over who is allowed to say something and who is not allowed to say something. We are not even arguing blatant hate speech. The actual word 'microagressions' fully encapsulates where we find ourselves as a society today.

I gather just upon hearing a white male saying that instances of racism can be exaggerated by the media is a microagression to some. If a certain person is not allowed to offer an over-arching analysis because of their skin color, and not the inherent uniqueness of their psyche therein lies a fundamental problem. This is where civil debate breaks down. Both sides isolate themselves. Then we end up with the most mind-boggling election match-up and post election day reactions in US History.
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:22 PM   #22
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A statement like that is only problematic because it doesn't adhere to the scripted progressive justice movement. It is true, I do not know what it is like to be a somebody in a protected class, which I gather is the new PC term for minority. Right now the progressive movement is calling balls and strikes. Setting the playing field over who is allowed to say something and who is not allowed to say something.



It's always weird when you speak in this tongue, honestly it doesn't seem like the real you. I can't tell if you're trying to play the role or just been hanging out on Breitbart too much lately.

No, it's problematic period. When you make comments like that or how jobs "affect" people racism doesn't, that's a big part of the systematic problem. Can you not see that?


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Old 01-04-2017, 07:28 PM   #23
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BVS - Read the rest of my post. Setting the framework.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregoropa
If a certain person is not allowed to offer an over-arching analysis because of their skin color, and not the inherent uniqueness of their psyche therein lies a fundamental problem.
Are we going to box ourselves in to the point where a let's say a brilliant white heterosexual male (not me), with a desire to help humanity, challenges a tenant of the Social Justice platform, that they cannot be taken seriously?

(Good conversation all around.)
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:30 PM   #24
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Oregoropa = Trump is a modern day Archie Bunker, conjured into popularity by an overreach of left wing policies and Politically correct culture
Well, in a way you're dead on...

[Quote]Norman Lear originally intended that Bunker be strongly disliked by audiences. Lear was shocked when Bunker quietly became a beloved figure to much of middle America. Lear thought that Bunker's opinions on race, sex, marriage, and religion were so wrong as to represent a parody of right-wing bigotry.[/quot e]
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:37 PM   #25
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I don't understand why a white, straight, Christian male, the most privileged position in American society, gets to decide that racism is grossly overstated? I mean that with absolute seriousness - how on earth would you know? You have no way of understanding the lives of racialized individuals and the baggage they bring with them to what are seemingly innocuous situations to you.
While I agree with this, I also feel a society has to be very careful not to insinuate a whole bunch of people are ignorant or lack compassion because they are white. I'm a white male, and have never experienced racism. As a pathetic teenager I engaged in racism. I hate that I did that, and I hate that people's lives are still affected by their race. And they are.
But I also think society is better if I, a white male, can lift my head up and speak out if I think racism is being overplayed by some.
I'm not saying that's happening. But I get uncomfortable with the idea that my ability to speak truth in a given situation is diminished because I'm white.

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Old 01-04-2017, 07:40 PM   #26
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While I agree with this, I also feel a society has to be very careful not to insinuate a whole bunch of people are ignorant or lack compassion because they are white. I'm a white male, and have never experienced racism. As a pathetic teenager I engaged in racism. I hate that I did that, and I hate that people's lives are still affected by their race. And they are.
But I also think society is better if I, a white male, can lift my head up and speak out if I think racism is being overplayed by some.
I'm not saying that's happening. But I get uncomfortable with the idea that my ability to speak truth in a given situation is diminished because I'm white.

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Old 01-04-2017, 07:41 PM   #27
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I am not saying that you aren't able to participate in the conversation but to make broadly sweeping statements that racism is overstated when you AT NO POINT IN YOUR LIFE experienced it really does take a lot of chutzpah.

When people of colour talk to me about their experiences and why they still feel like they are on the outs, I listen. And I tend to be deferential to them because as a white woman I have absolutely no right to tell them that they are wrong to feel the way they do.
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:41 PM   #28
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I'm assuming you will continue to call my opinion and analysis . . . Avoidance . . . until it properly aligns with your opinion and analysis.





Basically we disagree on the level and prevalence of racism, xenophobia, sexism etc... of the Trump movement.



Oregoropa = Trump is a modern day Archie Bunker, conjured into popularity by an overreach of left wing policies and Politically correct culture



BVS = Trump's movement is fueled by the racist tendencies of his followers which increase and spread when he speaks leading to a scary reversal of social progress


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Word

I may avoid until I can give an item my full attention at a time of my choosing. It can be exhausting if you feel obligated to live in FYM.

Always good sparring.


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I'm guessing we should feel completely comfortable about discussing racial issues. There is a comfort for a white person if you stick to the social justice script. If you have a dissenting viewpoint or an out-of-the-box idea you become vulnerable to verbal attack. Colleges and Universities have abandoned traditional liberal values of free speech and open debate. I've been called a fuck, asshole, cunt in FYM just for having a different opinion.

I had to approach last night's 'splaining with a jurist's mindset. Probably because I was defending the viewpoint that racism can be grossly overstated in today's climate.

A climate that made it conducive for Trump to win.


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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
A statement like that is only problematic because it doesn't adhere to the scripted progressive justice movement. It is true, I do not know what it is like to be a somebody in a protected class, which I gather is the new PC term for minority. Right now the progressive movement is calling balls and strikes. Setting the playing field over who is allowed to say something and who is not allowed to say something. We are not even arguing blatant hate speech. The actual word 'microagressions' fully encapsulates where we find ourselves as a society today.

I gather just upon hearing a white male saying that instances of racism can be exaggerated by the media is a microagression to some. If a certain person is not allowed to offer an over-arching analysis because of their skin color, and not the inherent uniqueness of their psyche therein lies a fundamental problem. This is where civil debate breaks down. Both sides isolate themselves. Then we end up with the most mind-boggling election match-up and post election day reactions in US History.


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Old 01-04-2017, 07:44 PM   #29
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I am not saying that you aren't able to participate in the conversation but to make broadly sweeping statements that racism is overstated when you AT NO POINT IN YOUR LIFE experienced it really does take a lot of chutzpah.
Agree

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Old 01-04-2017, 07:50 PM   #30
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I am not saying that you aren't able to participate in the conversation but to make broadly sweeping statements that racism is overstated when you AT NO POINT IN YOUR LIFE experienced it really does take a lot of chutzpah.
Going back to my original long-form post in (Trump volume III) one of my big arguments was that the media tends to fuel the fire. Taking an out of context statement by a public figure and jacking it up a few notches on the racial outrage factor if that would benefit a desired political outcome.

I was basically summarizing why I took my time writing out my views which were labeled as whitesplaining.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:04 PM   #31
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When people of colour talk to me about their experiences and why they still feel like they are on the outs, I listen. And I tend to be deferential to them because as a white woman I have absolutely no right to tell them that they are wrong to feel the way they do.


This is the heart of it, and where "mansplaining" and "whitesplaining" and "straightsplaining" come from -- when you disregard the experience and feelings and facts of lives directly impacted by racism and misogyny in favor of your own interpretations, and the fear of being labeled racist outweighs being the target of racism.

O's post was very "from one white person to another."
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:05 PM   #32
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BVS - Read the rest of my post. Setting the framework.



Are we going to box ourselves in to the point where a let's say a brilliant white heterosexual male (not me), with a desire to help humanity, challenges a tenant of the Social Justice platform, that they cannot be taken seriously?

(Good conversation all around.)

Not at all what I'm saying, not sure how you got that from my posts.


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Old 01-04-2017, 08:23 PM   #33
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O's post was very "from one white person to another."
If that is the definition of -splaining then. . .
 
You got me!





At the time I was just doing enough language ju-jitsu as one Trump supporter trying not get misunderstood by a plurality Hillary supporters in the thread. I have a pretty good idea of my daily audience in here.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:26 PM   #34
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I do think there's something there re the media's treatment of Trump's offensive remarks though. Traditional news media firms are in big trouble at the moment. For a lot of them, I suspect Trump and the election race was, from the moment he entered, damn near a lifesaver.
Generating traffic is what they were trying to do, and they did it.
I'm not saying they shouldn't have heavily reported Trump's comments, but I do think it odd they didn't go further with his refusal to release his tax returns. Perhaps stopped covering him until his returns were released?
However, where I feel Oregoropa's point falls over is the fact that this is fucking unprecedented. A presidential candidate, a man who wants to be the representative of all Americans, being a completely horrifying monster to all those he considers weaker than him (everyone other than Putin). You can't lose that context. He said utterly horrific things that had tangible, horrific effects on people who had done nothing to deserve it.

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Old 01-04-2017, 08:51 PM   #35
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Since we are on the topic of Mansplaining, was wondering if everybody had a chance to see MTV's 2017 New Year's Resolutions for White Guys. Viral Video that got posted to the web by MTV and received unbelievable backlash.



We are having a civil discussion tonight. This video seems to just destroy any kind of legitimate outreach. After watching this video can you understand why there is a danger to pushing the privilege message too far, by totally alienating the target audience?
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:02 PM   #36
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Since we are on the topic of Mansplaining, was wondering if everybody had a chance to see MTV's 2017 New Year's Resolutions for White Guys. Viral Video that got posted to the web by MTV and received unbelievable backlash.







We are having a civil discussion tonight. This video seems to just destroy any kind of legitimate outreach. After watching this video can you understand why there is a danger to pushing the privilege message too far, by totally alienating the target audience?

Explain one portion of that that destroys legitimate outreach.

I mean honestly, after reading your description I was expecting something entirely different.


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Old 01-04-2017, 09:06 PM   #37
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Explain one portion of that that destroys legitimate outreach.

I mean honestly, after reading your description I was expecting something entirely different.


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Yeah, Oregoropa, I'm entirely an unequivocally with BVS on this.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:28 PM   #38
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Explain one portion of that that destroys legitimate outreach.

I mean honestly, after reading your description I was expecting something entirely different.


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White males make up 31% of the population. This video makes a broad generalization that 90 million people all act the same way. It is assuming that all 90 million of us make broad generalizations about everybody else. Rank hyprocrisy

The video assumes we are all behaving this way and we need to be corrected. The girl that says find out what mansplaining is. How is her being incredibly condescending about somebody being condescending supposed to work? That is destroying legitimate outreach. Horrible execution towards the target audience.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:43 PM   #39
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Trump General Discussion IV: Unpresidented! Very sad!

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White males make up 31% of the population. This video makes a broad generalization that 90 million people all act the same way. It is assuming that all 90 million of us make broad generalizations about everybody else. Rank hyprocrisy

The video assumes we are all behaving this way and we need to be corrected. The girl that says find out what mansplaining is. How is her being incredibly condescending about somebody being condescending supposed to work? That is destroying legitimate outreach. Horrible execution towards the target audience.

WOW... you as a majority finally felt the smallest glimpse of what others feel on a daily basis.

This is hands down the best post you ever made. Now you know just a glimpse of how certain portions of this country felt due to Trump's campaign and the GOP in general.

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Old 01-04-2017, 10:23 PM   #40
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WOW... you as a majority finally felt the smallest glimpse of what others feel on a daily basis.

This is hands down the best post you ever made. Now you know just a glimpse of how certain portions of this country felt due to Trump's campaign and the GOP in general.

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Close but no cigar. Maybe the film maker was going for a whole snarky "We (SJWs) are now the Captain" vibe to piss us off on purpose. Most likely just completely tone deaf, like the democratic leadership. Lost track of what their message was to the working white-class.

This is another example of how ideologies are now hunkering down in self-reinforcing enclaves. This video is a snowglobe-time capsule of the Great American Cultural Rift of 2016.
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