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Old 02-19-2008, 07:06 AM   #321
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
I just think that the whole idea that we have stirred the pot for another attack is ridiculous.
Then you'd be wrong.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:51 PM   #322
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Originally posted by Irvine511





the goal was to get us to destroy ourselves -- who we are, what we'll do, and what we won't -- from the inside out.
Do you honestly believe this crap? I'm sorry but the islama facists aren't concerned with our change in ideology or what lines we're willing to cross. They care about killing as many infidels as they can, period. If the shear numbers of dead weren't that important, they could have gotten the message across another way. Thats why they continue to blow up buses and markets in Israel. Its blood and numbers. You don't reason with these animals. You fight dirty and you bring the fight to them. We did not ask for 9/11.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:54 PM   #323
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Finally Abomb-baby injects some common sense reasoning into this thread.

dbs
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:59 PM   #324
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You two are both incredibly obtuse. I've never seen such a blatantly inept analysis of foreign policy and torture.

These are not stupid people or animals. These are intelligent human beings. Evil? Absolutely. But they're smart. They understand that they're incredibly outnumbered. What Irvine is saying about destroying ourselves is absolutely correct: it's the only way they will make the progress they are looking for. They'll never obtain the manpower to just continue killing people. It has to be an attack on ideology, for them. It always has been an attack on ideology. Why do you think they hate us? Because of our ideology.

And you can't torture because A) you don't know if you're torturing a terrorist or not and you can't prove it definitively and B) because torturing is ineffective.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:10 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby


Do you honestly believe this crap? I'm sorry but the islama facists aren't concerned with our change in ideology or what lines we're willing to cross. They care about killing as many infidels as they can, period. If the shear numbers of dead weren't that important, they could have gotten the message across another way. Thats why they continue to blow up buses and markets in Israel. Its blood and numbers. You don't reason with these animals. You fight dirty and you bring the fight to them. We did not ask for 9/11.


tell me, how are we bringing the fight to them?

i also think you make a huge mistake equating Hamas with Al-Qaeda and tossing all Muslims -- even radicalized, violent Muslims -- into the same pile. it's just not that simple.

they are not all the same. their goals are not all the same. and the very nature of the 9-11 attacks shows that symbolism was more important than numbers dead. the goal was to attack in such a way that it would provoke America to do things it would not normally do, both internally and externally. and it has certainly succeded in that.

ETA: and what's more, if you want to *help* them murder more Americans, go ahead and make torture legal, make it policy. because men will say ANYTHING to get you to stop. so they cough up what you want to hear. you spend manhours tracking down that ticking time bomb, you race to Los Angeles, you burst into the room and you find ... nothing.

and then the real bomb goes off at a Ravens game in Baltimore.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:32 PM   #326
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Yep, I'm sure if we post a memo that we won't ask tough questions or use cerain techniques, they'll be delivering us flowers in the morning Irvine.

That will solve everything.

Brilliant.

dbs
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:35 PM   #327
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Yep, I'm sure if we post a memo that we won't ask tough questions or use cerain techniques, they'll be delivering us flowers in the morning Irvine.

Do you go out of your way to play dumb?
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:39 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Yep, I'm sure if we post a memo that we won't ask tough questions or use cerain techniques, they'll be delivering us flowers in the morning Irvine.

That will solve everything.

Brilliant.

dbs
I don't know what cerain techniques are but they sound scary. I don't understand why you and so many others only see one extreme or the other. We've got a judicial process. It's not perfect, but it works. Why not put it to good use? Why should we even bother signing these treaties if we're going to break the laws we "agree" to?

Geneva Conventions - torture is illegal
U.S. Constitution - all treaties etc. shall be the law of the land.

Promoting torture is promoting the same sort of lawlessness that these terrorists live under.

Sometimes I think it'd be great if everyone who believed in killing, torturing, etc. could just migrate to their own isolated island and deal with each other. If we can't adhere to our own Constitution, then we are in more trouble than we realize.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:58 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Yep, I'm sure if we post a memo that we won't ask tough questions or use cerain techniques, they'll be delivering us flowers in the morning Irvine.

That will solve everything.

Brilliant.

dbs


oh please.

it's not like "we either torture, or we perform fellatio on them."

this is the kind of thinking that mistakes Afghanistan for Iraq.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:08 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



this is the kind of thinking that mistakes Afghanistan for Iraq.


But they are the same, Sting said so...
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:42 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico


The Geneva Convention doesn't apply to terrorists.

As every human being is unique so is each terrorist, some are more depraved then others.

Interrogation techniques should vary from situation to situation.

When you unilaterally take one of the many tools to extract information in a certain circumstance, you're not that good of a poker player.

Questioning a potentail terrorist or admitted terrorist is like playing a cryptic game of poker.

Never divulge your hand.
Some of you are living in a Sept 10th time warped mentality.

You guys are stupidier than Neville Chamberlin:





Some seem to have mis placed liberal guilt coupled with complete niavity and are in way over your heads.

dbs
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:43 PM   #332
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How do you know the person you are interrogating is a terrorist?
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:43 PM   #333
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Maybe it's time for the ignore list.
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:44 PM   #334
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You don't, only if you know for sure-then you deal with it.
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:44 PM   #335
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Since when is torture an effective method?
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:45 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
You don't, only if you know for sure-then you deal with it.
What's "for sure?"

Even if you gave them a trial, it's only beyond a reasonable doubt. Not for sure.

There's NO way of knowing for sure.
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:40 PM   #337
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^ You should study to be a defense attorney
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:49 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


The Geneva Convention doesn't apply to terrorists.


you know what? i can almost accept this. "terrorists" -- since we're being way, way vague here -- don't wear uniforms like German soldiers did, so i can understand how this might be a different situation.

however, this does not mean that "terrorists" -- again, so vague, who are we talking about here? -- are our playthings with which we may do whatever we choose when we capture them. they are human beings and thusly do not exist in some netherworld beyond the rule of law. the rule of law does apply to them, because the rule of law applies to us as their captors.

if you want to draw up new rules, fine, but you better go ahead and do so.

and even conceding these points, you have gotten no further in convincing me that "enhanced interrogation techniques" do ANYTHING at all to make us safer.

you think i'm a bleeding heart?

i think you're a racist sadist who's out to get silly kicks from inflicting pain on brown people who talk funny.

see? i can call people names -- instead of constructing arguments -- just as well as you can, my sexydiamond.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:08 PM   #339
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First of all,
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
You guys are stupidier than Neville Chamberlin:
since you seem to be so fond of the forum rules, you should know which one you're breaking here.

Second of all, (italics are mine)
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
You guys are stupidier than Neville Chamberlin:
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:27 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




you know what? i can almost accept this. "terrorists" -- since we're being way, way vague here -- don't wear uniforms like German soldiers did, so i can understand how this might be a different situation.

however, this does not mean that "terrorists" -- again, so vague, who are we talking about here? --
arguments -- just as well as you can, my sexydiamond.
look, nobody is advocating blanket water-boarding or torture.

also, it wouldn't be too far of reach to conclude that:

you're a sloppy poker player.

read you-

dbs
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