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Old 05-08-2012, 12:03 PM   #381
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I think Obama's position on gay marriage has already "evolved" and that he supports it. But he can't/won't say so because it might hurt him politically with some people, and he can't completely reconcile it with his religious beliefs. Or maybe that's more of a religious/political connection. Joe Biden is the VP and I believe he's Catholic, but he has less to lose I guess. Of course it's not as if plenty of Catholics don't openly, or not so openly, support gay marriage.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:31 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by BonosSaint View Post
I don't know Obama's position on same sex marriage.
.
that article you posted?

I looked up the source, The New York Times opinion

Ok, easy for them

and now we have former DNC Chair and former Pennsylvania governor and Democratic stalwart Ed Rendell had harsh words for President Obama's new "evolution" on gay marriage.

Former DNC Chair Rendell: Obama Should 'Man Up' And Tell Gay Marriage Position


These people must be on the side of Romney 2012.

Sure, they will say they are on the side of history.
But, this election is going to be close. Obama needs the 90%+ per cent of black vote in a few swing votes. Turn off a few, let that fall to only 70% per cent because of the Black religious vote, and we can have a Romney Presidency.

There is concern that the Jewish vote has slipped 10-15%. These small margins matter, does anyone remember 2000?
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:53 PM   #383
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I do apologize on leaving out the NY Times. I copied the logo when copying the piece but it did not transfer and I did not notice. It is good to identify your source.

I understand your concern. Just don't care anymore. Tired of playing it safe. Tired of sitting back and behaving. Kind of tired of settling. Doesn't mean I won't vote for him.
Just means I do mind him being challenged.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:03 PM   #384
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So you are just fine with President Romney for 8 years.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:21 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
that article you posted?

I looked up the source, The New York Times opinion

Ok, easy for them

and now we have former DNC Chair and former Pennsylvania governor and Democratic stalwart Ed Rendell had harsh words for President Obama's new "evolution" on gay marriage.

Former DNC Chair Rendell: Obama Should 'Man Up' And Tell Gay Marriage Position


These people must be on the side of Romney 2012.

Sure, they will say they are on the side of history.
But, this election is going to be close. Obama needs the 90%+ per cent of black vote in a few swing votes. Turn off a few, let that fall to only 70% per cent because of the Black religious vote, and we can have a Romney Presidency.

There is concern that the Jewish vote has slipped 10-15%. These small margins matter, does anyone remember 2000?
Do you honestly believe that simply coming out in support of same sex marriage will lower the black vote from 90-something percent to 70-something percent? Somehow I doubt that one issue would swing things that severely.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:29 PM   #386
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Do you honestly believe that simply coming out in support of same sex marriage will lower the black vote from 90-something percent to 70-something percent? Somehow I doubt that one issue would swing things that severely.


there is no way Obama will pull less than 90% of the black vote. he'd have to shoot a puppy on TV or something.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:42 PM   #387
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So you are just fine with President Romney for 8 years.
I will not vote for Romney. I'm not happy with a combination of Romney and the likely makeup of the new Congress. At all. But really, I'm not OK with placating the bigots so your (generic your, not you specifically) guy gets in.

What are you asking me, them, to do, deep? Just how quiet and unchallenging should we stay? I'm so, so tired of being afraid of getting something worse that I don't challenge for something better. It gets demeaning.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:42 PM   #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Obama needs the 90%+ per cent of black vote in a few swing votes. Turn off a few, let that fall to only 70% per cent because of the Black religious vote, and we can have a Romney Presidency.

There is concern that the Jewish vote has slipped 10-15%. These small margins matter, does anyone remember 2000?
According to some posters in here all black people are blind mindless Democrat voters so your theory doesn't really hold any water.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:33 PM   #389
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Do you honestly believe that simply coming out in support of same sex marriage will lower the black vote from 90-something percent to 70-something percent? Somehow I doubt that one issue would swing things that severely.

I don't think it will switch that many from Obama to Romney at all

I do believe it will have an affect if some religious black people choose not to vote for Obama, a lower black turnout for Obama in 2012 than what he got in 2008 can affect some toss up states
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:37 PM   #390
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there is a very harsh anti gay ballot in NC today

I would like to see it lose,
but it will most likely pass, there should be exit polling , I expect black N Carolinians to support it. there should be some exit polling data
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:49 PM   #391
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Obama keeps his conscience in the closet - CNN.com

this is starting to become, well odd

what is the point?

we have one guy that has said his opinion is evolving, and we have another guy that says he has the 'eternal truth given from god'.

we also have 435 Congressional seats up in Nov
and quite a fer Democratic Senate seats that are up.

So lets force the President to declare a few months early, because some Democrats are in trouble and this will give them a boost? not likely at all.

more realistically, a flip flop by Obama on 'marriage' will flip a few more over to the GOP
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:50 PM   #392
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:08 PM   #393
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Support for gay marriage is continuing to increase in this country. I think it would benefit the Obama adminstration as a whole to show their support-I can't see how this would hurt their political standing that much. It might have a few years ago (though, really, if I were president, I'd show my support no matter what the country at large felt about the issue), but now? I think it could be a huge boost to their campaign. Let the Republicans continue to look like the out of touch party they clearly are.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:28 PM   #394
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the Obama team is worried about southern swing states like NC and VA, where a social issue like this might make a difference and motivate conservative christians who aren't too likely to be thrilled by a Romney candidacy to actually come out and vote.

hence, the tiptoeing.

in a mob rule referendum with minority rights up for vote, has the minority ever won?
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:20 PM   #395
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Barack Obama | Gay Marriage | LGBT Voters | The Daily Caller

Quote:
Obama takes wide stance on gay marriage to placate voting blocs
Right-wing humor at its best.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:24 PM   #396
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well this is some spin, yowza:

Quote:
Marriage is a tough dilemma for Obama because his base is deeply split: Strong majorities of black Americans oppose changing marriage rules to endorse same-sex couples. Like many other social conservatives, that community sees marriage as an institution to bind parents together and to their children.

That’s a popular position. Voters in more than 30 states — including liberal California — have used state-wide votes to solidify state support for the traditional view of marriage.

But many gays want to see White House endorsement of same-sex marriage because it would provide additional social validation of their relationships.


Read more: Barack Obama | Gay Marriage | LGBT Voters | The Daily Caller

i know we're not meant to take any of it seriously, but, like, gay people don't have kids? gay people just want validation?
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:27 PM   #397
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i know we're not meant to take any of it seriously, but, like, gay people don't have kids? gay people just want validation?
I was only referring to the headline, sorry, I should have been more clear.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:30 PM   #398
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...that community sees marriage as an institution to bind parents together and to their children.
I know the exclusion of the group in this comment doesn't mean they're against childless marriage as well as same-sex marriage, but ... come on. Marriage isn't just all about children. That bugs me.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:34 PM   #399
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Marriage isn't just all about children.


but it has to be in order to make any semblance of an anti-SSM argument.

just like being gay has to be a choice.

otherwise, all we can do is hide behind our bibles.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:35 PM   #400
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Oh, that's right. I keep forgetting!
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