Man Inside The Child,
As far as Sharon, its never been proven that he has actually murdered anyone. Israely citizens have heard all the stories and alleged crimes. They have looked at the facts like any citizen of a democratic nation and made a judgement based on those fact of whether Sharon is #1 a war criminal who should be locked up and #2 Whether he is fit to be the leader of Israel and if so, if he is the best leader among the candidates.
Israely citizens having study the facts have colectively concluded that there is no proof that Sharon has engaged in any war crimes. They have also decided that at this time in history he would make the best leader for Israel.
You could perhaps say I am wrong and don't know the facts, but you could not say that about over 3 million voters in Israel. Israel is a free and open society and the people of Israel have determined at this time, that Sharon is not a war criminal and is the best leader for them.
In any combat situation in which civilians are killed. One side can always make the allegation that they were murdered instead of it being an accident. If it was really the intent of the Israely Defense Force to murder Palestinians, they all would have been murdered about 3 decades ago. A military with the equipment and size of the Israel Defense Force could wipe out the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip in less than a couple of weeks. This is an indisputable fact which I don't think your recognizing.
By the way, there was NO MASSACRE AT JENIN! It is a proven fact by the United Nations that no massacre took place at Jenin. Yet your citing sources that list Jenin as a massacre which throws that sources credibility completely into doubt. Only 48 civilians out of tens of thousands of civilians were killed at Jenin. In not a single of the 48 dead civilians was it ever determined that the person was killed in nothing more than an accident. Israels tactics at Jenin saved lives. The only one who put the people there in jeopardy was the terrorist. Why did the terrorist decide to make a defensive stand in the most heavily populated part of the city? Why did they not go outside the city to fight the Israely's? I think its rather obvious.
"You call such autrosities lies by the Palestinians... I don't think that's fair.... I don't know what to say really... If you don't want to see the truth don't... I do agree Israeli teens should live in peace... I am not an advocate of suicide bombing... But as I've said before, the oppressor creates the suicide bomber... You've got a 70% poverty rate in Palestine, 50% of children are malnourished... There homes have been bombed and destroyed, they've been dispossessed of their homes and families. It is from such a culture that the suicide bomber arises... Israel's oppression, aggreesion and humiliation made the suicide bomber."
Listen, if an Israely soldier intentionally killed an innocent Palestinian, the burden of proof is on the Palestinians to prove that, that is indeed what happened. I don't think its fair to accuse someone of genocide and slaughter when they have in fact not engaged in those things. The United Nations determined that only 48 civilians were killed at Jenin. All it is believe were killed in crossfire and by accident. Do you believe in the idea of "innocent until proven guilty"? Most Israely soldiers are innocent of any crimes. But if there are those that are guilty, then they must be proven guilty and punished accordingly.
With suicide bombing, its rather obvious who is guilty. There over a Billion people in other parts of the world who live in absolute poverty! They don't have houses to live in, supermarket to go to for food. They would consider the conditions the Palestinians live under to be a paradise. Yet despite their much poorer conditions, they do not strap bombs to themselve and walk into disco's to blow up teens. The Idea that poverty causes suicide bombing is false! If it were true, the action would not be limited to the middle east.
If you were the head of the Israely Defense Force and had the responsibility of catching and killing terrorist who hide in heavily populated area's, what would you do? Or, lets take it out of the middle east. If you were the head of the police department of your local community and there were terrorist blowing up your supermarkets and pubs, what actions as a police officer would you take to defend your community from those that are trying to kill everyone in your community?
It is important to realize that "oppression" of the Palestinian people does not necessarily come from Israel. It really comes from the leaders and culture of Palestinians that have rejected every peace deal they have been offered over the past 55 years and who still feel violence is the only answer to their problems. After 55 years, no non-violent movement exist in the West Bank and Gaza. Its unfortunate, but I think those that might have been supportive of a such a movement may have been murdered by other Palestinians or scared into silence by them.
When Palestinians found that two Palestinians had helped the Israely's catch terrorist, they rounded them up and beat them to death in the streets. Nope, no trial, no "innocent until proven guilty", "they helped the Israely's in some way and now were going to beat them to death in the middle of the street"! I saw them do it on TV. What type of civilized society does this to their own people? If you want to know why there has been 55 years of war and no acceptence of various peace plans, if you want to know why there continues to be widespread poverty in the West Bank and Gaza, you don't need to look further than that action.
I've read the history and attempted to analyze the whole issue from the perspective of Palestinians. I did not initially before I researched this area necessarily favor Israel, although I do have members in my family that our Jewish, if that makes me biased, then I guess I'm guilty. No one wants to be on the side of injustice and from my research into this area, Israel has been unfairly treated and is the victim of the past 50 years. There are few countries over the past 50 years that have had to survive the odds Israel has. How many countries have been invaded by 5 other countries on their first day of independence?
As far as Sharon, its never been proven that he has actually murdered anyone. Israely citizens have heard all the stories and alleged crimes. They have looked at the facts like any citizen of a democratic nation and made a judgement based on those fact of whether Sharon is #1 a war criminal who should be locked up and #2 Whether he is fit to be the leader of Israel and if so, if he is the best leader among the candidates.
Israely citizens having study the facts have colectively concluded that there is no proof that Sharon has engaged in any war crimes. They have also decided that at this time in history he would make the best leader for Israel.
You could perhaps say I am wrong and don't know the facts, but you could not say that about over 3 million voters in Israel. Israel is a free and open society and the people of Israel have determined at this time, that Sharon is not a war criminal and is the best leader for them.
In any combat situation in which civilians are killed. One side can always make the allegation that they were murdered instead of it being an accident. If it was really the intent of the Israely Defense Force to murder Palestinians, they all would have been murdered about 3 decades ago. A military with the equipment and size of the Israel Defense Force could wipe out the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip in less than a couple of weeks. This is an indisputable fact which I don't think your recognizing.
By the way, there was NO MASSACRE AT JENIN! It is a proven fact by the United Nations that no massacre took place at Jenin. Yet your citing sources that list Jenin as a massacre which throws that sources credibility completely into doubt. Only 48 civilians out of tens of thousands of civilians were killed at Jenin. In not a single of the 48 dead civilians was it ever determined that the person was killed in nothing more than an accident. Israels tactics at Jenin saved lives. The only one who put the people there in jeopardy was the terrorist. Why did the terrorist decide to make a defensive stand in the most heavily populated part of the city? Why did they not go outside the city to fight the Israely's? I think its rather obvious.
"You call such autrosities lies by the Palestinians... I don't think that's fair.... I don't know what to say really... If you don't want to see the truth don't... I do agree Israeli teens should live in peace... I am not an advocate of suicide bombing... But as I've said before, the oppressor creates the suicide bomber... You've got a 70% poverty rate in Palestine, 50% of children are malnourished... There homes have been bombed and destroyed, they've been dispossessed of their homes and families. It is from such a culture that the suicide bomber arises... Israel's oppression, aggreesion and humiliation made the suicide bomber."
Listen, if an Israely soldier intentionally killed an innocent Palestinian, the burden of proof is on the Palestinians to prove that, that is indeed what happened. I don't think its fair to accuse someone of genocide and slaughter when they have in fact not engaged in those things. The United Nations determined that only 48 civilians were killed at Jenin. All it is believe were killed in crossfire and by accident. Do you believe in the idea of "innocent until proven guilty"? Most Israely soldiers are innocent of any crimes. But if there are those that are guilty, then they must be proven guilty and punished accordingly.
With suicide bombing, its rather obvious who is guilty. There over a Billion people in other parts of the world who live in absolute poverty! They don't have houses to live in, supermarket to go to for food. They would consider the conditions the Palestinians live under to be a paradise. Yet despite their much poorer conditions, they do not strap bombs to themselve and walk into disco's to blow up teens. The Idea that poverty causes suicide bombing is false! If it were true, the action would not be limited to the middle east.
If you were the head of the Israely Defense Force and had the responsibility of catching and killing terrorist who hide in heavily populated area's, what would you do? Or, lets take it out of the middle east. If you were the head of the police department of your local community and there were terrorist blowing up your supermarkets and pubs, what actions as a police officer would you take to defend your community from those that are trying to kill everyone in your community?
It is important to realize that "oppression" of the Palestinian people does not necessarily come from Israel. It really comes from the leaders and culture of Palestinians that have rejected every peace deal they have been offered over the past 55 years and who still feel violence is the only answer to their problems. After 55 years, no non-violent movement exist in the West Bank and Gaza. Its unfortunate, but I think those that might have been supportive of a such a movement may have been murdered by other Palestinians or scared into silence by them.
When Palestinians found that two Palestinians had helped the Israely's catch terrorist, they rounded them up and beat them to death in the streets. Nope, no trial, no "innocent until proven guilty", "they helped the Israely's in some way and now were going to beat them to death in the middle of the street"! I saw them do it on TV. What type of civilized society does this to their own people? If you want to know why there has been 55 years of war and no acceptence of various peace plans, if you want to know why there continues to be widespread poverty in the West Bank and Gaza, you don't need to look further than that action.
I've read the history and attempted to analyze the whole issue from the perspective of Palestinians. I did not initially before I researched this area necessarily favor Israel, although I do have members in my family that our Jewish, if that makes me biased, then I guess I'm guilty. No one wants to be on the side of injustice and from my research into this area, Israel has been unfairly treated and is the victim of the past 50 years. There are few countries over the past 50 years that have had to survive the odds Israel has. How many countries have been invaded by 5 other countries on their first day of independence?