Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2

[DaveC]

yup, 100% with cobbler on this one too.

the usa is the only country on earth that isn't a literal war zone where children are regularly being murdered en masse at random in their schools and nothing is being done to stop it. on this front, fuck the united states of america.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Same. A country that doesn't do anything after countless instances of children being murdered at school should be shamed.

 

[PhilsFan]

Nick going very Not All Men in his response to Cobbler's correct post, I see.

 

[cobl04]

Nice to not have to defend myself against Nick’s silly reply.

And by the way, Nick, Aboriginal needs to be capitalised.

And we’ve got more issues than just that, we’re also locking innocent asylum seekers in prisons, we’re openly racist towards people who aren’t white, among myriad other issues.

But your holier-than-thou fence-sitting bullshit is part of why nothing ever changes.

 

[BEAL]

These are virtually all men, and many of them are men who feel they are entitled to murder people because women won’t fuck them. (ie, that Santa Barbara shooting from a couple years ago).

Bingo. Bad things happen when men feel they are left out of the passing genes on game.

Not to steer off topic, but more a point of reference to male violence, this is why polygamy would be dangerous in a larger society. The successful men would hoard the women (in theory, cause a female most likely would want to share a mate who’s successful versus be with one who is clearly not), and those men left out would act out.

What can we do? I don’t know. Gun laws and legalize prostitution

 

[Vlad n U 2]

On cue!

[TWEET]964254626139828226[/TWEET]

Hall of Fame ratio on this one.

Shame about the whole Bret Stephens having a major role thing though, you know.

 

[Nick66]

But your holier-than-thou fence-sitting bullshit is part of why nothing ever changes.

Ah, the irony is sweet.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I guess what I'm wondering is, why bring up other countries' issues right now? When we're in a discussion about those other countries and their issues, then we can bring them up and discuss them.

But we're talking about this country's response (or lack thereof) to this particular issue. I don't get what saying "Yeah, well, other countries have problems, too!" achieves. Nobody's arguing that. Nobody's denying that. But that fact has no relevance to this particular topic, because on this issue, other countries are indeed miles ahead of where we are in dealing with it, so it makes sense they're utterly mystified as to why we can't get it together.

And yes, there are indeed people doing their part to try and fight for change in this country, and help fix things. And bless those people for all the hard work they're doing, and I hope they continue to keep making as much noise and waves as they can. Their efforts should always be noted, and they will always get my full-fledged support.

But the bottom line is, their efforts still haven't been enough to put any sort of noticeable dent in this issue. It doesn't feel like we're any further along in any sort of attempts to fix this than we were after so many of the other shootings in recent memory. Even well-meaning people continue to keep coming up with excuses and explanations for why this is such a hard issue to fix (yes, it's hard and complicated, but so fucking what? The same thing can be said about every other big issue this country's dealt with throughout its history. Good thing people in the past didn't let that fact stop them when they wanted to change something). We keep passing nothing more than wishy-washy small-scale attempts at best, when what we need is something significantly stronger. And we let stupid organizations like the NRA have a ridiculous amount of power when what any politician worth their salt should be doing is telling them to fuck off and quit holding the country captive on this matter.

The first time any children were hurt or killed in a school shooting should have been THE moment when we went, "Okay. No more of this, we're done". Yet nothing changed. And these shootings continue to keep happening, the body counts continue to rise and we keep getting new "worst mass shooting in U.S. history" titles, and more children continue to die. So yeah. I think people here and abroad are well entitled to shame this country for staying in this bullshit holding pattern for so long and letting people continue to die for the dumbest and lamest of reasons.

 

[cobl04]

Ah, the irony is sweet.

Please explain where the irony is.

 

[corianderstem]

I don't feel a need to get defensive when people say stuff like that. I get having that reaction, though.

 

[anitram]

as for notoriety...in some cases, yes. But this kid tried to get away.

Not to mention that the need for notariety is not uniquely American, yet rates of gun-related deaths and mass shootings are unparalleled. We all know the main reason and it diminishes all of us to pretend like we don't.

It's sickening, the thoughts and prayers and the "too soon" idiots can all go fuck right off. There are mothers and fathers who have to go into their children's closets and pick out clothes in which to bury them. That's unimaginable to me, you may as well bury me with them in that case. So yeah, fuck Marco Rubio and every other immoral asshole who would rather make a buck off the gun lobby than save lives. They deserve nothing but scorn and the harshest judgment.

 

[BoMac]

I have said this before, and I'll say it again:

I have travelled around the world, been in some areas that would not be considered safe for foreigners, but the United States is the only country that I have ever felt afraid. It is the only country where I modify my normal behaviour because I don't want to cause an incident or upset someone to the point where I'll get shot in the head. It is the only country where the first thing I do when I go to a restaurant, store, movie theatre etc. is take note of where the exits are and formulate an escape plan in my head just in case. I literally do not do any of those things anywhere else.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

I have zero argument against this.

Zero.

you seem like a smart and reasonable guy. so you should know better than to condemn the entire country. it's a segment of our population that have undue political influence who are the issue. yes, that segment is far larger and more powerful than any of us would like, but to talk that trash about the whole country is ridiculous and more than a bit offensive.

 

[Nick66]

you seem like a smart and reasonable guy. so you should know better than to condemn the entire country. it's a segment of our population that have undue political influence who are the issue. yes, that segment is far larger and more powerful than any of us would like, but to talk that trash about the whole country is ridiculous and more than a bit offensive.

No, the excuse will be blah blah blah, we're only talking about this one issue, don't take the words so literally, blah blah blah.

It's just a completely unhelpful, inappropriate, and frankly unfair (though unsurprising) comment in a thread that was actually pretty constructive and reasonable until then.

It's the kind of thing people thoughtlessly say about other countries when they don't know how else to express themselves. There's recent precedent for that after all....might as well just have called America a "shit hole"! Who would want to go there?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

you seem like a smart and reasonable guy. so you should know better than to condemn the entire country. it's a segment of our population that have undue political influence who are the issue. yes, that segment is far larger and more powerful than any of us would like, but to talk that trash about the whole country is ridiculous and more than a bit offensive.

No.

I condemn the entire country. It's all of our faults that this continues to happen.

The overwhelming majority of people in this country agree that whole scale changes must be made to our gun laws; yet we allow it to happen over and over and over again.

The power to end this is there - and we're too cowardly to act, or won't vote in the leaders who'll exact meaningful change because they don't play for our team.

It's bullshit. We, as a nation, are an utter embarrassment. Our children are being slaughtered and we do NOTHING.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

No, the excuse will be blah blah blah, we're only talking about this one issue, don't take the words so literally, blah blah blah.

It's just a completely unhelpful, inappropriate, and frankly unfair (though unsurprising) comment in a thread that was actually pretty constructive and reasonable until then.

It's the kind of thing people thoughtlessly say about other countries when they don't know how else to express themselves. There's recent precedent for that after all....might as well just have called America a "shit hole"! Who would want to go there?

I only reserve those responses for you sweetheart : [emoji8]

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

It's the kind of thing people thoughtlessly say about other countries when they don't know how else to express themselves. There's recent precedent for that after all....might as well just have called America a "shit hole"! Who would want to go there?

1. No, it's a comment borne out of genuine anger and frustration over a horrible tragedy that could've easily been prevented.

2. There's kind of a massive difference between somebody calling out the U.S. for failing to change their gun laws and stop the constant mass shootings and Trump calling countries who don't have the "right" kind of immigrants he wants shitholes, so...yeah. Not comparable.

And the fact that some of us in this thread who live in the U.S. agree with cobl's sentiments should tell you something as well.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

And the fact that some of us in this thread who live in the U.S. agree with cobl's sentiments should tell you something as well.

yes, it tells me a lot about the mentality of those who spend so much time on these boards.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

There are U.S. citizens not on this board who feel that way, too, though . I'd feel the same level of anger even if I never hung out here.

I get wanting to defend one's home country, but seeing this nightmare scenario play out over and over and over and over and over again makes it really, REALLY hard for some of us to feel all that defensive or proud of our country.

 

[kiwilad]

Someone said it earlier, but the only real solution is a complete ban on guns unless licensed for hunting etc.
ie a complete destruction of the 2nd amendment.
You folk told me a while back the vast majority in the US don't own a firearm. Is it reasonable then to assume the vast majority wouldn't be affected by dismantling the 2nd?
And if so, is there a chance the majority may begin mobilizing some sort of 'kill the 2nd' type movement?

 

[dazzledbylight]

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but I'm fucking throwing them anyway. Fuck your sick, twisted, disgusting country.

yup, 100% with cobbler on this one too.

the usa is the only country on earth that isn't a literal war zone where children are regularly being murdered en masse at random in their schools and nothing is being done to stop it. on this front, fuck the united states of america.

yeah, cobbler?
Here's the damn difference...

Dave C had the decency to curse us out on this particular issue; and is all you said about us on this issue.

Don't you dare blanketly call my country sick, twisted and disgusting.
Too effing many of us here have sweated a part our lives out trying make our/this country better! And still are.

 

[PhilsFan]

This discussion is fucking bullshit. Everyone's talking past each other on purpose because they're mad.

 

[cobl04]

yeah, cobbler?
Here's the damn difference...

Dave C had the decency to curse us out on this particular issue; and is all you said about us on this issue.

Don't you dare blanketly call my country sick, twisted and disgusting.
Too effing many of us here have sweated a part our lives out trying make our/this country better! And still are.

Lol. Like this is meant to make me feel guilt or some shit. Outta here.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

Lol. Like this is meant to make me feel guilt or some shit. Outta here.

Good riddance.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

There are U.S. citizens not on this board who feel that way, too, though . I'd feel the same level of anger even if I never hung out here.

I get wanting to defend one's home country, but seeing this nightmare scenario play out over and over and over and over and over again makes it really, REALLY hard for some of us to feel all that defensive or proud of our country.

This is not about defending America. Quite the contrary. It's about properly assessing the situation and putting constructive arguments forward.

I'm as pissed off as you are, if not more so. And I put my money - and my votes - where my mouth is on this topic. if you want to test me on this, I'll be happy to elaborate.

But that doesn't mean I will sit by while a pathetic little malcontended asshole like this cobbler d-bag spouts off because he's just an angry human being. His posts in general are sad and ridiculous. And this forum seems to enable this bullshit.

 

[cobl04]

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Hell fuckin yeah babey !!

 

[Iggy Fizz]

Oh poor cobbler, says he is 'outta here' but he's really just lurking like the sad little boy he is. So young, I'm sure the rage in him is strong.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

This is not about defending America. Quite the contrary. It's about properly assessing the situation and putting constructive arguments forward.

I'm as pissed off as you are, if not more so. And I put my money - and my votes - where my mouth is on this topic. if you want to test me on this, I'll be happy to elaborate.

Understandable, and a fair argument. I apologize for any misunderstanding of where you were coming from with your response (and I know that you do agree with the general anger over this latest tragedy, but I'm sorry if my comments somehow implied otherwise on that front, too). I think a lot of the posts here are more the general result of needing to vent our anger out somewhere more than anything else, but you are right that it would do well for everyone to take a breather and talk to each other on a more even level, especially considering this is an issue where we're all basically on the same side. I'll include myself in the whole "take a breather" thing, too.

All of that said...

But that doesn't mean I will sit by while a pathetic little malcontended asshole like this cobbler d-bag spouts off because he's just an angry human being. His posts in general are sad and ridiculous. And this forum seems to enable this bullshit.

cobl has contributed a lot of decent commentary and discussion during his entire time on this board. I would hesitate to dismiss him entirely based off certain comments like the sort he made earlier.

I'll leave it to him to discuss his comments from earlier in further detail if he so wishes, as I don't want to put words in his mouth or anything of that sort. But even if one doesn't agree with the way he phrased things, I do feel there is a valid point within his post worth considering and hearing out.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

Hi Moonlit - thank you. but there is literally nothing you should apologize for. very classy posts all around and thank you for giving context for your point of view.

As for the bottom half, we'll agree to disagree.

Cheers.