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Old 11-28-2002, 03:37 PM   #1
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Michael Moore's "Bowling......"

Has anyone else seen this movie? What did you think? Was Charlton Heston treated unfairly?

Just wanting some opinions & observations. Hope all have had a Happy Thanksgiving!!
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Old 11-28-2002, 05:27 PM   #2
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there's a thread here-
http://forum.interference.com/showth...+For+Columbine
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Old 11-28-2002, 08:29 PM   #3
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i saw it and i liked it. i don't think heston was treated unfairly, though. i think moore raised some very good questions, it's just that he couldn't seem to answer any of them. why the nra had to have pro-gun rallies after the columbine tragedy and the one at the elementary school (i don't remember what city it was in, flint, michigan i think?) in the same or nearby cities (esp. in the latter's case because i think he decided to go after it happened, but the former rally had already been scheduled) just pisses me off.

i must say i was proud of k-mart though. i don't pay attention to what stores sell guns or ammo (hell, i thought wal-marts didn't even sell them anymore and k-marts never had, lol) so whatever the answer was would be a surprise to me. for them to take it to heart (be it because they felt bad for what happened or because of pressure from the media) and stop selling ammo too was groovy.
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Old 11-28-2002, 09:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparkysgrrrl
there's a thread here-
http://forum.interference.com/showth...+For+Columbine
Yeah, I'm going to send this over to FYM, where it'll be merged.

As for the movie, I did see it, and I thought it was excellent. As for Heston, I kinda felt bad for him because he seems like a senile old man, but, like Khanada said, he didn't have any good answers for Moore regarding why pro-gun rallies were held in areas right after shootings, and I think he should be expected to have reasons about why those rallies occured.
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Old 11-29-2002, 08:56 AM   #5
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this is a dumb question, i guess. but i never understood why people HAVE to have guns nowadays. Police, i think i can understand it. And I guess it is guaranteed in the constitution, but is that the main reason the NRA uses to defend gun ownership? I must admit, I have never taken the time to really really find out how they justify their position. maybe somebody here can help me. What kinds of statements/arguments does the NRA make in support of their position? do they want everyone in america to own one gun? do they all own stock in gun manufacturing companies and want to make money off of guns? what's the deal?
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Old 11-29-2002, 12:33 PM   #6
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I haven't seen this film myself, but this is something my friend commented on. To him, the film was not really a condemnation of guns, nor did it advocate further gun control legislation. What the film did say, however, was that American culture was problematic and had to change.

Would those who saw this film agree?

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Old 11-29-2002, 12:39 PM   #7
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Yes, the movie is really about how fear based America is, and what effect that has on us and our actions etc.
It's not really a "gun control" movie at all.
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Old 11-29-2002, 05:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Would those who saw this film agree?
oui.

the movie gives statistics of homicides for several first world countries, including america, which of course is the only one well over a thousand. (every other county is under a hundred or maybe with a couple hundred, but america is at a little over 11,000!) but he also states every country allows guns, so that can't be it. he basically disproves every belief that it's gun ownership, or even race.
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Old 11-29-2002, 06:30 PM   #9
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Yes, I would agree.

Though I feel the Canadian parts of it were exaggerated (particularly the shot of the slums - yarite, come to Finch/Jane in Toronto and it looks NOTHING like what Moore showed), it was an excellent film about the USA in the context of a global society.

The film was primarily based on the creation and propagation of fear in the US.
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Old 12-01-2002, 06:34 PM   #10
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If anything Moore was too easy on that old man. But Chuck's got Alzheimer's now, so it's hard to be tough on him and still look good. He's got no answers except that tired old racial bullshit. I can't stand the old bastard; I never could.
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Old 12-04-2002, 01:27 PM   #11
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The movie was great.

But I say, "fuck that."

I think Moore was easy on Heston.

Alzheimer's is no excuse for some of the actions taken by Heston.

The only gripe I had about the flick was some of Moore's passive aggresive approaches to some of the subjects. He makes his point by using irony, but never once comes out to his enemy and say "YOU ARE WRONG."

That is his style, and it works very well. I think it is a terrific film, and was really amazed by it.

If you are thinking about going to see it, be prepared to be more educated, than entertained...
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Old 12-04-2002, 03:50 PM   #12
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I believe Heston didn't come out with the "I have Alzheimer's symtoms" until after Moore interviewed him.
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Old 12-04-2002, 10:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by ouizy
He makes his point by using irony, but never once comes out to his enemy and say "YOU ARE WRONG."
sometimes the intended miss the irony.
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Old 12-06-2002, 01:13 PM   #14
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true - I just found it a bit long-winded...
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Old 12-16-2002, 09:17 PM   #15
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i thought it was great. i enjoyed how on one hand it's got some really funny things in it, but it's such a serious subject that you tend to feel a little guilty after laughing.

Quote:
I haven't seen this film myself, but this is something my friend commented on. To him, the film was not really a condemnation of guns, nor did it advocate further gun control legislation. What the film did say, however, was that American culture was problematic and had to change.
and i agree with that.

and the part with heston made me really mad...they were there with this huge movie poster behind them, he was walking around every quesiont, and the whole image of his private estate just gave the impression that he was so shut off from the world that it just made sense that he wouldn't know what to say...
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Old 12-17-2002, 09:19 PM   #16
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maybe people have kinda forgotten about this thread, but I went and saw the movie twice last week. I was really very *incited* by it.

I have decided to try and do something about the "welfare to work" program. I did a lot of reading/writing about the history of welfare in grad school, but analyzing schools of thought to analyzing welfare programs isn't very socially helpful. Anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get started helping to oppose that useless system?

I wondered if anyone knew what had finally unfurled regarding the little boy who shot the little girl...the mother...where are they now? Does she work? Does he live with his mother?

Does anyone know the ethnic/racial membership percentages of the NRA?

Did anyone here wonder about the people Michael Moore chose to interview and include in the film? Did anyone feel there was a lack of racial diversity? Demographic diversity? If so...was it intentional? If it was unintentional, did it hurt the film?

And finally, I just finished reading The Grapes of Wrath for the first time. It was amazing. I would love to hear if anyone here has read it, recently or not, and thought about the two pieces of media in relation to one another.



(responses due before the holiday break. )
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Old 12-18-2002, 12:39 PM   #17
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I've tried to find statistics on membership in the NRA, but it seems easier said than done...you could try calling them 1-800-NRA-3888 and talking to them about it.
Theres' this on there web site -
closing remarks made by C.H. at a rally -
"That's why you and your descendants need never fear fascism, state-run faith, refugee camps, brainwashing, ethnic cleansing, or especially, submission to the wanton will of criminals."
(Ethnic clensing of a bunch of old white men? lol )
taken from http://www.nrahq.org/transcripts/denver_close.asp


I've also found it difficult to get info on what happend with the 6 year old, I can't find names leading me anywhere, but I do know they were planning on charging his uncle or somebody who had owned the gun.

You may want to check MM msg boards and look around, the answers may be on there actually.
And as far as helping with the welfare thing....what is it that you do right now? Are you still in school? Perhaps trying to get a job in some sort of social working position would lead you in some direction or another, I really don't know. All I know is I'm trying to get a number of so called "gov't aide" and I don't seem to qualify for any of them, and the ones I do qualify for they want me to go on a wild goose chase for forms and signatures from every person in the city lol They certainly don't make it easy or encouraging to try to get help when you really need it.
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Old 12-18-2002, 05:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by elizabeth
maybe people have kinda forgotten about this thread, but I went and saw the movie twice last week. I was really very *incited* by it.

I have decided to try and do something about the "welfare to work" program. I did a lot of reading/writing about the history of welfare in grad school, but analyzing schools of thought to analyzing welfare programs isn't very socially helpful. Anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get started helping to oppose that useless system?

...

And finally, I just finished reading The Grapes of Wrath for the first time. It was amazing. I would love to hear if anyone here has read it, recently or not, and thought about the two pieces of media in relation to one another.



(responses due before the holiday break. )

I just read Grapes of Wrath (2nd time). A great book, yes. I hadn't made the connection...What relations do you see? Are you thinking of the government camps as being positive examples of how the government can help the needy?

I had forgotten the point about mothers not being around because they are forced to work, leaving children unsupervised. Seems if we are left with the choice of sacrificing "family values" or our tax money, we choose to hold on to the latter. It is a matter of children's rights, in a sense. And a matter of keeping our communities safe by raising disciplined kids.
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Old 12-18-2002, 08:56 PM   #19
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i guess to answer one question first off, I work full time for a non-profit musuem. i'm not qualified for social work and don't have the time or $$ to go back to grad school. or the desire.

i just want to be an "activist." ugh...sounds cornball.

anyway, i was thinking about funny connections between GoW and BfC...like in Grapes, an 11 yr old kills a sheriff's deputy with a shotgun. And i cheered for the kid! And the people in Grapes are so goddam poor. It's sickening. And the stuff they are forced to do to survive...and then I was thinking about the mother of that little boy...

and when it comes to welfare, i had to read a few books a few years ago, the one i remember is "Protecting Soldiers and Mothers." It was all about how soldiers have earned pensions but mothers have yet to. Certain mothers could possibly deserve a "pension" (this was before welfare existed) but they had to meet certain standards of behavior. and god forbid the mothers tried to get a job to supplement meager funds of "pensions." It was frustrating to read about in grad school...to see in the theatre...and to read about in fiction....

i guess I'm just frustrated with the way things work right now.
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Old 12-18-2002, 09:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparkysgrrrl
All I know is I'm trying to get a number of so called "gov't aide" and I don't seem to qualify for any of them, and the ones I do qualify for they want me to go on a wild goose chase for forms and signatures from every person in the city lol They certainly don't make it easy or encouraging to try to get help when you really need it.
Forms are evil. I'm not looking forward to all the immigration paperwork I'm going to have to do!

You might have already tried this, but have you called your Member of Congress about it? They should have a staff person who deals with that sort of thing and can help you with the forms and speed up the process a bit.
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