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Old 09-09-2009, 10:22 PM   #921
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^Excellent post. I feel precisely the same way.

The discussions in the medical office I work at tomorrow will be lengthy.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:23 PM   #922
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Yeah, way worse than some lunatic screaming during a joint session of Congress.

Maybe he should have thrown a shoe as I seem to remember Democrats rather enjoyed seeing a president of the United States dodge leather projectiles thrown by a dissenting member of the audience.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:25 PM   #923
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Maybe he should have thrown a shoe as I seem to remember Democrats rather enjoyed seeing a president of the United States dodge a leather projectile thrown by a dissenting member of the audience.
Did a Democratic member of Congress do that?

Way to falsely equivocate. Really lame, honestly.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:28 PM   #924
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Maybe he should have thrown a shoe as I seem to remember Democrats rather enjoyed seeing a president of the United States dodge leather projectiles thrown by a dissenting member of the audience.
He probably just couldn't get them off quickly enough.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:36 PM   #925
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One last thing on decorum. I watched the Republican response on MSNBC and did anyone else catch the first words out of K Olbermann's mouth when he was done? Mentioned the guy's been sued for malpractice 3 times and called him a birther. Class act Keith. The congressman deserves no less respect than the president.
There really are much more important things to focus on this evening, but since I spent most of the day with my mother, who was receiving top rate and timely health care at one of our best (socialized) health care facilities in the area, I'm sleepy tonight and not really fit for in depth policy discussions. So for now, I'd just like to say that given that Obama has been raked over the coals ad nauseum, and we are all well aware of every detail of his background, why should the background of the Republican speaker be off limits? Knowing the background of the speaker can help one understand how their thoughts and opinions were formed, and these points were particularly illuminating. I say this as someone who can't stomach Olbermann, but I did hear the same things from a different news source.

I think the Republican heckler did display an appalling lack of decorum, but he was in a professional situation. Olbermann and other media members cannot be held to the same standard in this case, their jobs are to report relevant information, and I do believe this information was relevant to understanding possible motivations of the congressman.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:48 PM   #926
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So, if an "illegal" (and really, are people somehow "illegal"?) needs medical care, we let him die on the street? I'd like a real answer from someone, please. Anyone.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:55 PM   #927
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If Democrats are going to continue to use the example of Alabama having 85% of all it's policies with just one insurance company to illustrate the lack of competition (as Obama did in his speech tonight); can one person tell me why the Democrats will not support allowing Alabamians to buy insurance from private insurers in another state (which everyone is now restricted from doing) rather then set up this public option as the only recourse. Miss Alabama can insure her legs with Lloyd's of London but she can't buy more affordable health insurance from Georgia? Why, why is this status quo so sacred?

Anyone?
This is partly a farse, and partly misunderstood.

I have BCBS Illinois, but live in TX, due to my employer's corporate office in Illinois.

In some aspects my plan is much better than most of those living in TX, but in other ways it's very limited compared to a plan I would purchase in TX.

The not being able to buy from state to state is mainly set up by the insurance companies themselves. Go "free market"!

Why? Take podiatry for example: podiatry in TX is defined by any procedure from the forefoot to an inch above the ankle, Georgia is up to right under the knee, and Ohio is just the forefoot the ankle isn't included. (now these may not be exact by state) But the point being is that regulations differ from state to state so in order for the insurance companies not to be screwed they worked collectively and compromised on regulations not allowing some policies to be sold state to state.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:26 PM   #928
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Maybe he should have thrown a shoe as I seem to remember Democrats rather enjoyed seeing a president of the United States dodge leather projectiles thrown by a dissenting member of the audience.
Really? Wow.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:31 AM   #929
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Really? Wow.
Of course, what Indy didn't mention is that the shoe was thrown by an Iraqi journalist in Iraq, not by a member of the US Congress. I realise that's just a minor detail....

link
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:34 AM   #930
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Of course, what Indy didn't mention is that the shoe was thrown by an Iraqi journalist in Iraq, not by a member of the US Congress. I realise that's just a minor detail....

link
My "Really? Wow." was incredulity that he used this as an example of......well, of anything, really. I know that the right have lost their minds, but come on, a child could do better than this.
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:24 AM   #931
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i watched some of the speech and some of the before and after commentary on fox news. 3 times in a row during commercials the FIRST commercial was that one where the woman is bitching about the canadian healthcare that the government is trying to force on us. "say NO to government run healthcare!" pretty much 3 anti-healthcare reform commericals first during 3 commerical breaks.

no, thats not biased at all.

we wouldnt want to take money out of the insurance companies and the politicians they pay off pockets would we?
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:39 AM   #932
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So, if an "illegal" (and really, are people somehow "illegal"?) needs medical care, we let him die on the street? I'd like a real answer from someone, please. Anyone.
yes, a non-US citizen entering the country anywhere other than a designated port of entry, and without being inspected at entry is breaking the law. hence the term "illegal." we call them EWIs - entered without inspection.

i guess if we have to pay for healthcare for people in jail and prison, whats the difference. yes, they shouldnt be here, but it's not the American way to let people "die in the street", although the insurance companies dont feel the same way, even towards our own citizens.

take the money we blow overseas and spend it on border security (and other things) instead. then we wont have an "illegal" problem.
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:42 AM   #933
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I realise that's just a minor detail....
Details are for socialists! Hardcore gun toting, meat straight from the cow eating, homobashing, science denying, why can't everyone be like me Americans don't need details, and they are the real Americans.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:15 AM   #934
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yes, a non-US citizen entering the country anywhere other than a designated port of entry, and without being inspected at entry is breaking the law. hence the term "illegal." we call them EWIs - entered without inspection.
People are not "illegal." They do things that are illegal, but they are not illegal.

It's easier to think of them as not deserving proper treatment as humans if we can think of them as illegal.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:16 AM   #935
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but it's not the American way to let people "die in the street",
You can't tell that from some of the responses here and around the country.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:31 AM   #936
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i watched some of the speech and some of the before and after commentary on fox news. 3 times in a row during commercials the FIRST commercial was that one where the woman is bitching about the canadian healthcare that the government is trying to force on us. "say NO to government run healthcare!" pretty much 3 anti-healthcare reform commericals first during 3 commerical breaks.

no, thats not biased at all.

we wouldnt want to take money out of the insurance companies and the politicians they pay off pockets would we?
We saw that. Full of misrepresentations of the truth.

It's actually conceivable that one individual specialist is booked up months ahead of time, but you know what? That woman would have had the right to check with as many specialists as she wanted to, in order to see if someone could have seen her sooner. We've actually run into something similar. My mom was seeing this cardiologist, but he was impossible to get into in a timely manner. We told her family doctor, and his exact words were "if you can't get in to see him when you need to, it doesn't matter how good he is, he's not helping you." So, he found her someone else, she was able to get in to see the second doctor within a few days, and everything was fine.

I rolled my eyes through that commercial last night. I wonder how many Americans thought it was completely accurate.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:33 AM   #937
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I rolled my eyes through that commercial last night. I wonder how many Americans thought it was completely accurate.
Probably the same number who think Obama's a socialist.
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:38 AM   #938
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Probably the same number who think Obama's a socialist.
Honestly, it's no wonder. I've heard some crazy things about Canadian health care via American cable news, from commentators right through to actual politicians, the latter of whom are supposed to offer some degree of truth and accuracy, and when they tell such bold face lies, it's not difficult to imagine why many Americans are scared shitless of Canadian-style health care.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:34 AM   #939
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By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON – The Census Bureau reports that the number of people lacking health insurance rose to 46.3 million in 2008.

That's up from 45.7 million in 2007, due to a continuing erosion of employer-provided insurance. Still, the level remained just below the peak of 47 million who were uninsured in 2006, because of the growth of government insurance programs such as Medicaid for the poor.

The nation's poverty rate increased to 13.2 percent, up from the 12.5 percent in 2007. That meant there were 39.8 million people living in poverty. It was the highest rate since 1997.

The statistics released Thursday cover the first full year of the current recession.

The median — or midpoint — household income declined slightly to $50,303.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:02 AM   #940
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People are not "illegal." They do things that are illegal, but they are not illegal.

It's easier to think of them as not deserving proper treatment as humans if we can think of them as illegal.
California is bankrupt, should the rest of the country follow? Forget health care for a moment. What has illegal immigration done to your education system, once the best in the nation? A 25% illiteracy rate for one, double what it was a generation ago.

Tell us about prop 187 as well and what happened.
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