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Old 09-09-2005, 02:13 PM   #1
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Executive Order

President signs executive order allowing contractors to pay below prevailing wage in affected areas.

The Executive Order is here.


Am I reading this correctly? Can we really not pay at least prevailing wage to those who need it most right now? You know- those residents that will be rebuilding the gulf? The President just signed a $51 billion relief bill. There's a whole lot of people that desperately need dignified-paying jobs.

Isn't this within the realm of State's rights? But, the WH is pointing fingers at the States for not doing enough for relief, while simultaneously hindering efforts and calling all criticism "the blame game".

I'm trying to see the potential benefit of this order, but I simply can not. I can only see it as another disgusting cash-grab for those who this order will benefit the most- corporations whose profit margin will increase, while screwing over the working class, again.

My head is spinning. Discuss?
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:23 PM   #2
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Tax cuts for the rich and fuck the poor.
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:31 PM   #3
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It's getting to be so over the top that I can hardly beLIEve the American people will continue to stand for it.
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:33 PM   #4
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I hope it's okay to post this here...

lyrics to Midnight Oil's song "Read About It"

The rich get richer, the poor get the picture
The bombs never hit you when you're down so low
Some got pollution, some revolution
There must be some solution but I just don't know
The bosses want decisions, the workers need ambitions
There won't be no collisions when they move so slow
Nothing ever happens, nothing really matters
No one ever tells me so what am I to know

You wouldn't read about it, read about it
Just another incredible scene, there's no doubt about it

Hammer and the sickle, the news is at a trickle
The commissars are fickle but the stockpile grows
Bombers keep acoming, engines softly humming
The stars and stripes are running for their own big show
Another little flare up, storm brewed in a tea cup
Imagine any mix up and the lot would go
Nothing ever happens...

You wouldn't read about it, read about it
One unjust ridiculous steal, ain't no doubt about it
You wouldn't read about it, read about it
Just another particular deal, there's no doubt about it
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:53 PM   #5
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Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by elfyx
I'm trying to see the potential benefit of this order, but I simply can not. I can only see it as another disgusting cash-grab for those who this order will benefit the most- corporations whose profit margin will increase, while screwing over the working class, again.
You weren't really expecting an answer here, were you....

The Davis-Bacon Act has been suspended following other natural disasters. Katrina is by no means the first time.

The rationale is that prevailing wage are usually based on union-negotiated wages - not the true prevailing wages in the area. It has been sited before Congress that Davis-Bacon actually inflates the cost of a construction project by as much as 38%.

Suspension of Davis-Bacon allows for faster recovery and the creation of more jobs in the recovery.
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:56 PM   #6
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Bush Urges Victims To Gnaw On Bootstraps For Sustenance

WASHINGTON, DC—In an emergency White House address Sunday, President Bush urged all people dying from several days without food and water in New Orleans to "tap into the American entrepreneurial spirit" and gnaw on their own bootstraps for sustenance. "Government handouts are not the answer," Bush said. "I believe in smaller government, which is why I have drastically cut welfare and levee upkeep. I encourage you poor folks to fill yourself up on your own bootstraps. Buckle down, and tear at them like a starving animal." Responding to reports that many Katrina survivors have lost everything in the disaster, Bush said, "Only when you work hard and chew desperately on your own footwear can you live the American dream."




(yes, yes, it IS from The Onion)
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Old 09-09-2005, 02:58 PM   #7
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Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


You weren't really expecting an answer here, were you....

The Davis-Bacon Act has been suspended following other natural disasters. Katrina is by no means the first time.

The rationale is that prevailing wage are usually based on union-negotiated wages - not the true prevailing wages in the area. It has been sited before Congress that Davis-Bacon actually inflates the cost of a construction project by as much as 38%.

Suspension of Davis-Bacon allows for faster recovery and the creation of more jobs in the recovery.
Thanks NB.

And since it will be US tax $ doing the rebuilding, this makes it more efficient as well.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
Bush Urges Victims To Gnaw On Bootstraps For Sustenance

WASHINGTON, DC—In an emergency White House address Sunday, President Bush urged all people dying from several days without food and water in New Orleans to "tap into the American entrepreneurial spirit" and gnaw on their own bootstraps for sustenance. "Government handouts are not the answer," Bush said. "I believe in smaller government, which is why I have drastically cut welfare and levee upkeep. I encourage you poor folks to fill yourself up on your own bootstraps. Buckle down, and tear at them like a starving animal." Responding to reports that many Katrina survivors have lost everything in the disaster, Bush said, "Only when you work hard and chew desperately on your own footwear can you live the American dream."




(yes, yes, it IS from The Onion)


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Old 09-09-2005, 03:14 PM   #9
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Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


You weren't really expecting an answer here, were you....

The Davis-Bacon Act has been suspended following other natural disasters. Katrina is by no means the first time.

The rationale is that prevailing wage are usually based on union-negotiated wages - not the true prevailing wages in the area. It has been sited before Congress that Davis-Bacon actually inflates the cost of a construction project by as much as 38%.

Suspension of Davis-Bacon allows for faster recovery and the creation of more jobs in the recovery.
Thank you. That's something I did not know.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:17 PM   #10
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Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
he Davis-Bacon Act has been suspended following other natural disasters. Katrina is by no means the first time.

The rationale is that prevailing wage are usually based on union-negotiated wages - not the true prevailing wages in the area. It has been sited before Congress that Davis-Bacon actually inflates the cost of a construction project by as much as 38%.

Suspension of Davis-Bacon allows for faster recovery and the creation of more jobs in the recovery.
Thanks for the clarity of facts and logic.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:19 PM   #11
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Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher


Thanks for the clarity of facts and logic.
I'm glad someone sees "logic" in screwing the laborers.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:23 PM   #12
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I'm glad someone sees "logic" in screwing the laborers.
It's my tax money. Get it spent as efficiently as possible.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:23 PM   #13
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm glad someone sees "logic" in screwing the laborers.
Did you read NBC's explanation on why it was suspended? Seems sound to me.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:28 PM   #14
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QUOTE]Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm glad someone sees "logic" in screwing the laborers. [/QUOTE]


Responses like this only add fire to the accusations that Bush opponents will blame him for anything.

If suspending the Davis-Bacon Act is better long term for an area like New Orleans, then it should be suspended.

Instead of making a reactionary comment as you did above, get the facts and at least attempt to understand the rationale behind certain decisions.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:37 PM   #15
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Remember, the media wants to grab your attention. That's all they care about. Facts can be presented in many many many ways. It's up to you to dissect it and understand the truth. That's difficult to do simply because it requires a lot of time. Many of us are content to draw conclusions based on what we're reading on CNN or MSNBC.

It's sad to see that finger pointing is taking precedence over helping fellow humans (specifically, Brown being sent back to D.C. because of a discrepancy on his resume). Come on folks, is this really going to help the situation?

And 50,000 body bags being prepared (per MSNBC's front page headline on 9/8)?. I sure hope that doesn't prove to be right but that is a little less than 1/2 of the toll from the tsunami (115,000).

jeez.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:38 PM   #16
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Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


You weren't really expecting an answer here, were you....

The Davis-Bacon Act has been suspended following other natural disasters. Katrina is by no means the first time.

The rationale is that prevailing wage are usually based on union-negotiated wages - not the true prevailing wages in the area. It has been sited before Congress that Davis-Bacon actually inflates the cost of a construction project by as much as 38%.

Suspension of Davis-Bacon allows for faster recovery and the creation of more jobs in the recovery.
Thank you. I didn't know this. This is to help the hurricane victims. Bravo! See, I don't always get pissed at Bush.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lally1011
Remember, the media wants to grab your attention. That's all they care about. Facts can be presented in many many many ways. It's up to you to dissect it and understand the truth. That's difficult to do simply because it requires a lot of time. Many of us are content to draw conclusions based on what we're reading on CNN or MSNBC.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:42 PM   #18
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First, Davis-Bacon was originally passed by Republicans.. shows how far the party has drifted.

The whole idea of the law is to take wages out of the equations in public bidding projects. Other factors then must be considered such as overall quality of work, and other efficiences.

That whole rationale you quote is highly contested by legitimate research. It has been shown that in places without prevailing wage laws, instead of making construction cheaper, it was often more expensive. Contractors had more cost overruns, mistakes, shoddy work, and more workplace injuries.

So, yes prevailing wages are aligned with wages and fringe packages union bargaining agreements. Prevailing wages are not just about salary, but also take into account things like healthcare and pension.

Of course you'll be able to hire more labor for the same amount of money. Of course prevailing wage is going to inflate the cost of a construction project. That is self-evident. Prevailing wage is established by the free market in an area, but if unions are part of that free market, the prevailing wage usually is higher than what the government could get away paying. This reconstruction project itself will be huge, thus driving down wages for everyone else.

The line of reasoning, specifically for the Katrina disaster doesn't make sense. With such horrible working and living conditions, especially in some areas- any normally operating business would have to pay hazard wages for many jobs. What incentive is there to come back and work in such conditions without prevailaing wage? People are scattered across the nation.

Bush is trying to have his cake, and eat it too. Let's advocate lowering of medicines, now too, especially as thousands of Katrina victims will be added by Medicare and Medicaid programs.

What the people need now, more than anything is diginity, not slave labor. It seems as if the majority of the spending bill is going into the lining of corporate pockets, and not on rebuilding lives with sustainable living wages. Reconstruction efforts are being implemented by the elite establishment: http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/st...566200,00.html

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:45 PM   #19
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Executive Order

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1


It's my tax money. Get it spent as efficiently as possible.
At what cost? Is it really "efficient" that this will actually end up siphoning money into corporate pockets? Because the idea that more work can be done for the same amount of money just doesn't add up.
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Old 09-09-2005, 03:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
QUOTE]Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm glad someone sees "logic" in screwing the laborers.



Responses like this only add fire to the accusations that Bush opponents will blame him for anything.

If suspending the Davis-Bacon Act is better long term for an area like New Orleans, then it should be suspended.

Instead of making a reactionary comment as you did above, get the facts and at least attempt to understand the rationale behind certain decisions.
[/QUOTE]


Well, when he is to blame, I'll call him on it. And this goes for what I believe to be systemic corruption and bad policy on both sides of the aisle.

What facts? I'm sorry, but the interpretation of "facts" are in dispute here.
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