equality blooms with spring, pt. II - Page 46

BVS · 12-02-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diamond

maybe in your head, but not to most people.

<>

You're right marriage was never one man many women, one man one woman as long as they were same race, etc...

How silly of me to honestly be informed about history and the evolving of definitions.

Irvine511 · 12-02-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500

why do you consider a contradictory answer to be avoiding the question?

do you think you actually answered the question?

INDY500 · 12-02-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

do you think you actually answered the question?

to whose satisfaction?

martha · 12-02-2009, 07:04 PM

deep · 12-02-2009, 07:14 PM

the better question is why do gays and their supporters not want equal protection under the law.

Same-sex marriage bill voted down in New York Senate - CNN.com

why the hell can people just do the sensable thing?

like the people of the state of Washington

call for the question of 'Civil Unions' with all the rights and benefits enjoyed by hetero married couples.

BoMac · 12-02-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep

call for the question of 'Civil Unions' with all the rights and benefits enjoyed by hetero married couples.

Because separate, but equal is not sensible.

It's also not sensible for a couple to get a "civil union" that is only recognized in that state, and they'd lose their benefits were they to move to another state.

deep · 12-02-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoMac

Because separate, but equal is not sensible.

It's also not sensible for a couple to get a "civil union" that is only recognized in that state, and they'd lose their benefits were they to move to another state.

Do you think gay people that get married in legal gay marriage states can take their state given rights to other states?

Irvine511 · 12-02-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep

Do you think gay people that get married in legal gay marriage states can take their state given rights to other states?

many states prohibit this.

would a civil union be good enough for you?

BoMac · 12-02-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep

Do you think gay people that get married in legal gay marriage states can take their state given rights to other states?

No. But if, say, a Mass. gay couple moves to Canada, their marriage would be recognized here, because of their equal status under Canadian law.

martha · 12-02-2009, 07:39 PM

Flaunting your socialism again.

deep · 12-02-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

many states prohibit this.

would a civil union be good enough for you?

If I were a gay man with a partner, yes.
Because I accept that I can not beat anything into a 'Religious' person's head.

And if 'Civil Unions' are offered here in CA and I ever get married, I would choose a Civil Union license over a marriage license.
I would not want to be associated with the religious people that think that word has some 'higher value'. Because I don't think it does.
I would want to align myself with 'equal protection for all."

deep · 12-02-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoMac

No. But if, say, a Mass. gay couple moves to Canada, their marriage would be recognized here, because of their equal status under Canadian law.

Would it be better to have

4 States with legal gay marriage and
46 States where it is illegal

or

4 States with legal gay marriage
36 States with Civil Unions, with same rights and benefits as marraige and
10 States where Gay Marriage and Civil Unions are illegal?

BoMac · 12-02-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep

Would it be better to have

4 States with legal gay marriage and
46 States where it is illegal

or

4 States with legal gay marriage
36 States with Civil Unions, with same rights and benefits as marraige and
10 States where Gay Marriage and Civil Unions are illegal?

How about 50 states with legal gay marriage.

It's hard to understand how you cannot see this as discriminatory. In both of your scenarios, movement is restricted because not every state is equal. If a gay couple gets married in a state that legalizes same-sex marriage, and one of them gets transferred to a state where it is illegal, then what happens to their benefits? Do they decide to stay where they are and risk one of them losing their job?

But, of course, we hetero folk have none of these worries, because we can get married wherever we damn please.

deep · 12-02-2009, 07:57 PM

Because I live in the real world

and I care about this issue a lot.

This just ain't some pissing contest for me, like it seems to be for many people in here.

4 States with legal gay marriage
36 States with Civil Unions, with same rights and benefits as marriage and
10 States where Gay Marriage and Civil Unions are illegal?

or

50 states with legal gay marriage

which one do you think is more possible to attain in the next 4-6 years?

BoMac · 12-02-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep

Because I live in the real world

and I care about this issue a lot.

This just ain't some pissing contest for me, like it seems to be for many people in here.

4 States with legal gay marriage
36 States with Civil Unions, with same rights and benefits as marriage and
10 States where Gay Marriage and Civil Unions are illegal?

or

50 states with legal gay marriage

which one do you think is more possible to attain in the next 4-6 years?

I live in the real world, too, thank you very much. And in my world, it's not about what's possible, it's about what's right.

Why are you throwing out arbitrary time frames for? Who said anything about 4-6 years?

deep · 12-02-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoMac

I live in the real world, too, thank you very much. And in my world, it's not about what's possible, it's about what's right.

Why are you throwing out arbitrary time frames for? Who said anything about 4-6 years?

I have gay friends that are living and dying now. That have lived decent, honorable, productive lives contributing to this country and society. They pay all the same taxes and obey all the laws of the land.

I would like them to have the right of hospital visitation when one is sick, shared benefits, right of survivorship and all the other benefits and rights that straight couples have. I would not want some bitter family member turning a person away at the hospital because he does not have 'equal protection'.

Civil Unions are attainable now. It just passed by popular vote in WA while Gay Marriage was voted down in Maine.

Arbitrary time frames?

That is easy for you. It does not affect you. Stand on some chicken shit principal, even if it take 20 more years??
Meanwhile gay people are living and dying.
Who cares, just win the argument.

phillyfan26 · 12-02-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep

I have gay friends that are living and dying now. That have lived decent, honorable, productive lives contributing to this country and society. They pay all the same taxes and obey all the laws of the land.

I would like them to have the right of hospital visitation when one is sick, shared benefits, right of survivorship and all the other benefits and rights that straight couples have. I would not want some bitter family member turning a person away at the hospital because he does not have 'equal protection'.

Civil Unions are attainable now. It just passed by popular vote in WA while Gay Marriage was voted down in Maine.

Arbitrary time frames?

That is easy for you. It does not affect you. Stand on some chicken shit principal, even if it take 20 more years??
Meanwhile gay people are living and dying.
Who cares just win the argument.

You know who wants marriage over civil unions?

Homosexuals.

That's why I throw in my support for marriage and not for civil unions.

deep · 12-02-2009, 08:39 PM

You need to do a little more research

The Gay and Lesbian groups campaigned hard in Washington for Civil Unions, they saw a chance to win 'equal protection'.

Do you think gays voted against 'Civil Unions' in the last election in Washington?

If the ballot had Gay Marriage it would have lost.

Irvine511 · 12-02-2009, 09:19 PM

on a practical level, deep is right.

however, there has been enormous progress since 2003, and we have much to be grateful to the state of Massachusetts. civil rights have progressed enormously, and i expect that within my lifetime there will be full civil rights across the country, and within the next 10 years marriage equality in most of the coastal states.

the anti-equality forces have no arguments, just emotion and fear. and that tends to die off.

as for myself, i'll take a civil union, but i want a marriage.

deep · 12-02-2009, 09:38 PM

Why not take a 'Civil Union' license and a giant GAY WEDDING for 500 people performed by a Unitarian Minister or any other person you choose to perform at your WEDDING CEREMONY.

I have never been to a MARRIAGE.
I have been to dozens, maybe hundreds of WEDDINGS.

I know it would be simpler if we could just snap our fingers and have GAY MARRIGE equals MARRIGE and all MARRIGE laws.

But that is not attainable now. And may not be for decades. Look what just happened in the N Y Senate. WTF That is New York. Unfortunately the next couple of election cycles it looks like independents will be trending GOP.

Lets make some progress and pick off the moderate states with Civil Unions.

After a few thousand GAY WEDDINGS of co-workers and gay neighbors without the sky falling, with gays having the same rights, and the system not blowing up.
People will wonder how we could have allowed some people to go for so long with out 'equal protection."

12-02-2009, 09:38 PM	#920
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,601 Local Time: 09:55 AM	Why not take a 'Civil Union' license and a giant GAY WEDDING for 500 people performed by a Unitarian Minister or any other person you choose to perform at your WEDDING CEREMONY. I have never been to a MARRIAGE. I have been to dozens, maybe hundreds of WEDDINGS. I know it would be simpler if we could just snap our fingers and have GAY MARRIGE equals MARRIGE and all MARRIGE laws. But that is not attainable now. And may not be for decades. Look what just happened in the N Y Senate. WTF That is New York. Unfortunately the next couple of election cycles it looks like independents will be trending GOP. Lets make some progress and pick off the moderate states with Civil Unions. After a few thousand GAY WEDDINGS of co-workers and gay neighbors without the sky falling, with gays having the same rights, and the system not blowing up. People will wonder how we could have allowed some people to go for so long with out 'equal protection." __________________

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12-02-2009, 07:04 PM	#904
martha Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place Posts: 42,555 Local Time: 10:55 AM

12-02-2009, 07:14 PM	#905
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,601 Local Time: 09:55 AM	the better question is why do gays and their supporters not want equal protection under the law. Same-sex marriage bill voted down in New York Senate - CNN.com why the hell can people just do the sensable thing? like the people of the state of Washington call for the question of 'Civil Unions' with all the rights and benefits enjoyed by hetero married couples.

12-02-2009, 07:39 PM	#910
martha Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place Posts: 42,555 Local Time: 10:55 AM	Flaunting your socialism again.

12-02-2009, 07:57 PM	#914
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,601 Local Time: 09:55 AM	Because I live in the real world and I care about this issue a lot. This just ain't some pissing contest for me, like it seems to be for many people in here. 4 States with legal gay marriage 36 States with Civil Unions, with same rights and benefits as marriage and 10 States where Gay Marriage and Civil Unions are illegal? or 50 states with legal gay marriage which one do you think is more possible to attain in the next 4-6 years?

12-02-2009, 08:39 PM	#918
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,601 Local Time: 09:55 AM	You need to do a little more research The Gay and Lesbian groups campaigned hard in Washington for Civil Unions, they saw a chance to win 'equal protection'. Do you think gays voted against 'Civil Unions' in the last election in Washington? If the ballot had Gay Marriage it would have lost.

12-02-2009, 09:19 PM	#919
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 33,395 Local Time: 01:55 PM	on a practical level, deep is right. however, there has been enormous progress since 2003, and we have much to be grateful to the state of Massachusetts. civil rights have progressed enormously, and i expect that within my lifetime there will be full civil rights across the country, and within the next 10 years marriage equality in most of the coastal states. the anti-equality forces have no arguments, just emotion and fear. and that tends to die off. as for myself, i'll take a civil union, but i want a marriage.