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Old 09-27-2016, 08:00 AM   #441
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Trump was still horribly underprepared last night.

Does he not truly want the job?

Does his arrogance allow him to live in this false reality where he thought he could continue to wing it?

Or did his preparers have their hands full trying to work on his demeanor that they ran out of time? Which lets face it, we've truly lowered the bar if we're going to say that was an improvement.

None of this will mean anything to the minions, but I doubt that performance won over any new votes.




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Old 09-27-2016, 08:02 AM   #442
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I would like to point out that neither of these things are facts.

But you often being too literal; fact.




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Old 09-27-2016, 08:03 AM   #443
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The job creator jab was priceless...


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Old 09-27-2016, 08:06 AM   #444
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But you often being too literal; fact.




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I'm a libteral. It's a special kind of liberal.

You might not understand.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:07 AM   #445
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I'm a libteral. It's a special kind of liberal.

You might not understand.






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Old 09-27-2016, 08:29 AM   #446
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I'm concerned that Trump was visibly sick during this debate, frequently sniffling, audibly hoarse.

Can we elect such a sickly man to the highest office in this great land?

Why was he not more transparent about his illness?

What else is he hiding?



That he snorted a bunch of coke before the debate? That's what people are saying, people who know things. The sniffling, the twitching, the erratic behavior, the energy crash about 50 minutes in. It's just what some people have noticed.

Also, that Kellyanne Conway certainly earns her paycheck.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:32 AM   #447
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I don't understand how you truly believe we'd be as fucked with Clinton as president. I understand you don't care for her, but you really think she would be as bad a president as Trump?
This argument (which I've been back and forth about supporting) rests on a couple of ideas. First and foremost it's that, while she's not an outright reckless xenophobe like Trump, her foreign policy stances are nonetheless concerning. It seems to be a matter of the official record now that one of her biggest frustrations with Obama while she was SoS was that he was not aggressive enough in his foreign policy. I think there is a a very legitimate argument that in this tumultuous time she'd tend to be a little more aggressive than Obama, and that's concerning. We discussed in another thread about the moral uncertainty behind drone strikes and that it is simultaneously concerning while also at times the only option. It's a tough spot, but it's there.

The second is that she's further to the middle/right than Obama (who is not particularly far left in the first place) on a number of key issues, especially related to the economy. And one of her big talking points is how good she is politically, how she is savvy, how she wants to work with Republicans, and the way one obviously we go about that would be to "meet in the middle on these issues." This is concerning when the middle is between a centrist and a large group of right-wingers.

The comforting thing is that she'll have control of at least one and possible three Supreme Court nominations. And she's not going to allow Congress to roll back some of the things that Obama accomplished, especially in regards to women's rights and gay rights. But that's about it.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:34 AM   #448
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Meanwhile, Trump questioned where Clinton saw him insult Miss Universe for being fat and hispanic last night before essentially doubling down on it this morning by saying her weight gain caused him a headache.

There are people on this forum who support this man.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:46 AM   #449
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My God I hope so. I've been obsessing about the cabinet appointments he'd make, especially the Department of the Interior, which oversees the NPS, which handles my beloved Grand Canyon. I can't even think about it without getting worked up.


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Old 09-27-2016, 08:51 AM   #450
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This argument (which I've been back and forth about supporting) rests on a couple of ideas. First and foremost it's that, while she's not an outright reckless xenophobe like Trump, her foreign policy stances are nonetheless concerning. It seems to be a matter of the official record now that one of her biggest frustrations with Obama while she was SoS was that he was not aggressive enough in his foreign policy. I think there is a a very legitimate argument that in this tumultuous time she'd tend to be a little more aggressive than Obama, and that's concerning. We discussed in another thread about the moral uncertainty behind drone strikes and that it is simultaneously concerning while also at times the only option. It's a tough spot, but it's there.



The second is that she's further to the middle/right than Obama (who is not particularly far left in the first place) on a number of key issues, especially related to the economy. And one of her big talking points is how good she is politically, how she is savvy, how she wants to work with Republicans, and the way one obviously we go about that would be to "meet in the middle on these issues." This is concerning when the middle is between a centrist and a large group of right-wingers.



The comforting thing is that she'll have control of at least one and possible three Supreme Court nominations. And she's not going to allow Congress to roll back some of the things that Obama accomplished, especially in regards to women's rights and gay rights. But that's about it.

Yes but going back to a point I made earlier, equating them and their level of potential "doom" isn't only incorrect, but sort of insulting to the very existence of our political system. Clinton has her flaws, and they are concerning. But Donald Trump is an insult. It's not the same thing. It shouldn't be equated.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:51 AM   #451
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I don't understand how you truly believe we'd be as fucked with Clinton as president. I understand you don't care for her, but you really think she would be as bad a president as Trump?
As bad as Trump, probably not.
Bad, certainly.
Very bad, likely.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:55 AM   #452
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That he snorted a bunch of coke before the debate? That's what people are saying, people who know things. The sniffling, the twitching, the erratic behavior, the energy crash about 50 minutes in. It's just what some people have noticed.
.
He claims to not drink or do drugs, but in the first 5 minutes I asked if he had snorted a couple of lines before taking the stage.
Maybe he took smelling salts or Afrin, but something was going on.

On a "positive" note, he didn't look quite as orange as usual.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:14 AM   #453
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I mean... he knows that terrific airport in Dubai he was raving about was built with slave labor, right? Right?

Oh that's right, he doesn't, cause he's a big boo boo bear.
That's what I was saying to Travis when he said that.
I was just saying, basically, 'he does realize that those airports were built on other people's backs, right?'




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Yes but going back to a point I made earlier, equating them and their level of potential "doom" isn't only incorrect, but sort of insulting to the very existence of our political system. Clinton has her flaws, and they are concerning. But Donald Trump is an insult. It's not the same thing. It shouldn't be equated.
We weren't doomed with any of the last few presidents, who everyone screamed would destroy this country, I doubt we'd be screwed now if Hillary won, even if you don't like her.

But Trump? I definitely don't feel right way about Trump. Last night did nothing to reassure me.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:30 AM   #454
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread XIII

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As bad as Trump, probably not.

Bad, certainly.

Very bad, likely.
Probably not as bad as Trump?

What's your opinion of Obama?
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:33 AM   #455
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Probably not as bad as Trump?
I know. WTF?
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:57 AM   #456
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Trump was still horribly underprepared last night.

Does he not truly want the job?

Does his arrogance allow him to live in this false reality where he thought he could continue to wing it?
It's very symptomatic of a guy who is surrounded by yes-men in his daily life. My bet is his adult children don't bite the hand that feeds them, and aside from Ivanka who does seem like she is at least with it, the two guys are dingbats and Tiffany has essentially no relationship with Trump anyway. His current wife is probably totally disengaged and sees little of him. So who's left in his daily life? Employees, consultants, blah blah all people who exist solely to pump up his elephantine ego.

I can't tell you how many times I have been in a meeting (I'm a corporate lawyer) where some high level exec, maybe even a CEO of a company walks in having been totally disengaged from whatever transaction is going on and offering some nugget of "wisdom" which leaves everyone in the room utterly speechless at the stupidity of it, but then he leaves and we all get back to work to actually get things done. This is Trump in a nutshell, so why would he study for some dinky debate against a woman who has no stamina and whom he can put into place by talking over her? I think for a lot of people who don't live in this type of corporate environment it may be incomprehensible. To me, it's kind of like business as usual.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:00 AM   #457
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I was impressed with Hillary's toughness, with her refusal to be rattled by anything coming out of Trump's mouth. She appeared very stately to me, aggressive at times but always composed.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:09 AM   #458
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We weren't doomed with any of the last few presidents, who everyone screamed would destroy this country, I doubt we'd be screwed now if Hillary won, even if you don't like her.

But Trump? I definitely don't feel right way about Trump. Last night did nothing to reassure me.

I agree. As someone who comfortably fits somewhere between the Democratic Party and the libertarian party, I felt unconvinced by Obama's first term. In hindsight, I was pleased with his second term. But, at the time I voted for Johnson.

Mitt Romney was absolutely not someone who represented my views at all. People panicked that he was effectively the worst thing that could happen to us. Someone quoted it as "the most important election in our lifetimes" as every election is always called.

This election sort of makes me realize that the potential for a candidate to be dooming is far less when they're an actual politician. It's not to say that the candidate needs to be a career politician. But time and time again I can't help but think that the absolute worst thing about Donald Trump is not his racist, xenophobic, poor tempered nature. It's the fact that he doesn't have a clue how to do anything he talks about. He doesn't know what he's talking about. His ideas come right out of his ass. Build a wall, he says. Even if he wanted to be xenophobic and destroy relations with Mexico over it, it's not like his plan was well thought out. It was an impulsive idea. Building a wall doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of illegal immigrants either come on a plane, on a boat, in the water, or heck... underground. The disproportionate response he a wall would be to such a "problem" is evidence that the guy only thinks impulsively, and doesn't actually have real thought out ideas.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:12 AM   #459
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Probably not as bad as Trump?

?
You always have to account for the possibility that any President could do something really horrible, so the odds are like 95%-5% Trump will be worse, but that still rates as a "probably" rather than a "definitely".

I think were Trump to win, he'd just sit in The White House and throw parties and film his daily activity for reality TV. Do nothing actually presidential.
Should Hillary start WW3, she'd rate as worse than that. So she gets a "probably".
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:14 AM   #460
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Clearly Hewson is also a libteral.
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