Who else misses the POP era?? (POP appreciation thread)

[Zoocifer]

Urrrr. I'm drunk on anger. Those are supposed to be "there it is". Psh.

~z~

 

[bullet the blue sky]

I have to disagree with everyone that doesn't agree with me here.

I have just watched POPMart again and it looks great. Are the people who are saying "they looked ridiculous, grown men in those outfits" the same ones who say "it doesn't matter that they are in their 40s, age is just a number"?!?! Hypocrites!

I have come to this sweeping generalisation. The people who got into U2 in the 90s generally love POP. The people who got into U2 in the 80s generally hate POP. That is fine. We are talking different eras. Face it... some of us here are in our late 30s and some are in our mid-teens. We aren't all going to like the same stuff.

I'm still sticking with what I said about whether you like POP or not says a lot about your person or, more particularly, your record collection.

And in fact, the only person I take exception to here is the one who said they hated Velvet Dress and would be happy never to hear it again. Well, all I can say is that you must not have an ounce of sex in your body!

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

yes

and what also sucks is i was majorly into U2 during the pop era, and i was so sick of having to endure my loser schoolmates saying they sucked and stuff cuz of the pop album which i loooooove, btw.

and now when i don't really care for their current album (atyclb) everyone's like woooo yeah go U2!

oh yeah and i got to see popmart but not elevation cuz they didn't tour here. i was not surprised. they didn't even play a concert here when they came here 10+ years ago just to record a couple bloody tracks...

 

[Zoocifer]

You tell 'em, Khan !

And I'll have to agree with you on what you said totally, Bullet the Blue Sky. It is an age/era thing and if you like the album or not says alot about you and your musical taste and collection. Ten four, good buddy !

New York London Paris Munich
EVERYBODY TALKIN' 'BOUT POP MUZIK

~z~



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" You love this town - even if that doesn't ring true. You've been all over, and it's been all over you " - Bono

" Don't you know there ain't no Devil, that's just God when he's drunk " - Tom Waits

 

[new orleans]

Originally posted by u2utah:
I take it you don't like ATYCLB.

But you must not think much of U2 right now and that's kind of sad

So, let me see if I have this straight. With Pop, U2 didn't care if anyone liked them, and really only wanted "true fans" in the audience. And "true fans" are people who liked Pop. Hmmmm...

Actually those are common perceptions and actually were supported by many "Bono pronouncements" after Zooropa about how they didn't have to worry anymore about selling records, and were going to make music for themselves, and that people who didn't like AB and Zooropa weren't going to like what was coming.

Sooooo, it turns out that they didn't care until people didn't buy. Or so it might seem.....

On the surface it appears that they made an "about face" and "sold out" with ATYCLB and for awhile I was wondering about it myself. However, now that I've been reminded by folks here who were paying attention back then (Pop happened during a time that I had much more serious issues to deal with) that Pop was hyped as much if not more than ATYCLB, I think Bono's statements were just part of a strategy to prepare folks for something very different. (You can learn a lot from reading this forum)

IMO, the problem with Pop is that it wasn't Brilliant, and that's that. (and, of course, anyone and everyone is welcome to disagree with me )

JT was Brilliant, AB was Brilliant, and both could stand up to the hype. (Zooropa was just sort of snuck in there and wasn't perceived as a "real" record so it didn't have the pressure) Pop was the next big release and did have a lot of hype, but was merely a good record not Brilliant (again IMO). It has some amazing moments and has the potential to be brilliant, but it fell short and therefore and it didn't live up to the hype. (I really don't think the clothes or hair had any major impact)

I wasn't paying a lot of attention to U2 in the mid-late 90s. Survival issues were most on my mind during that time period, but all I remember from Pop was hype, hype, hype on MTV then--Nothing. Staring at the Sun was the only song I ever heard on the radio.

(Another issue for the US is the release of Discotheque as a single. No one in the US had used that word for at least 30 years!)

Anyone that thinks you are a true U2 fan if you like pop is ridiculous. People have different tastes and I can see even true U2 fans no liking POP. Personally I liked POP but hated the image U2 portrayed during that period.

 

[new orleans]

Originally posted by bullet the blue sky:
I think the reason everyone gets to uptight about POP is that it is U2's most radical album... and whether you like it or not almost always says a tremendous amount about your own musical tastes and, by definition, your own personality and way of thinking.

The triumvirate of Zooropa-Passengers-POP is U2's most interesting phase, immaterial of whether you enjoy it or not. If you put those songs on, you will always find something else in there, whether it be a noise here or a rhythm there that you hadn't noticed before. By definition then, POP was never going to be a radio-friendly album (like, dare I say ATYCLB and to some degree Rattle and Hum) because it took too much EFFORT to listen to the songs properly.

POP was more of a 'vibe' record than a 'melody' record. It was based on beats and rhythms for the most part. As one review I read said "it sounds great, but where are the tunes?" - but again, that goes back to making an effort with music. Not all songs are ready-made hits. Take Please for example - on first listen, who'd have thought that would be such a favourite with the fans?

As for POPMart itself, by the time it came to Europe it had finally found its feet, but the first American leg was rather disappointing. And, again, whether you like it or not, the reason POP and POPMart were more successful outside America was that America was not ready for that type of music.

Actually, POPMart was a lot simpler than ZOO TV. Okay, so they emerged from a lemon from the encore. But other than that, what else was there? A big television screen. That was it. The band's outfits were a lot better than on the Elevation tour, too!

With ATYCLB U2 have gone from one extreme to the other. I'm not saying it is a 'safe' album - if you listen to Beautiful Day carefully, it's actually quite a complex song! - but it would be a shame if the adverse reaction to POP would end U2's sense of adventure. Because without that, you would never have had The Joshua Tree and The Unforgettable Fire, never mind POP.

In summary, I hope the next album is more Discotheque than Stuck In A Moment.

U2 has changed their sound and have done quite a bit of experimentation throughout their career. From the sound and feel of the War album to the sound and feel of The Unforgetable Fire. The UF to JT. Rattle & Hum was not a big difference but then Actung Baby was a completely different sound and feel than JT. Then Zooroppa to POP to ATCLB. This is one thing that has kept U2 fresh for so long CHANGE. Listen to Boston's first three albums and Creed, they all sound the same.

 

[*Stormy*]

But Boston's albums were all GOOD. I would rather hear a band do good stuff they are good at than something forced that isn't them. As I said in my last post, I do hope they will remain true to themselves and do what they really want to do and never again put on some kind of act just to prove they have 'changed.' If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Boston's first album is a masterpiece. It sounds every bit as good as it did when it was new, and everybody in my high school loved it. Talk about unapprecited, Boston has recieved some very unfair bad raps.

[This message has been edited by *Stormy* (edited 03-30-2002).]

 

[new orleans]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:

Originally posted by MrPryck2U:
The Boys were needlessly slagged by the critics and the old-school fans and got fucked in the ass for it. I found myself constantly defending U2 because they had the balls to laugh at themselves, Rock and Roll and Western Civilization. Without POP though, we wouldn't have had ATYCLB; the album that brought all the fuckwads back onto the "U2 is great bandwagon". Meanwhile, I was there all along.

So, would you call someone who liked U2 since 1984, but then didn't like Zooropa or Pop, but then became interested again with ATYCLB a "f***wad"? Let me be clear on that; is that what you are saying?

You really have a nice vocabulary. It shows your vast intelligence.

 

[new orleans]

Originally posted by Hawkfire:
In response to the above question, here are a couple reasons why POP has sold the least copies of any U2 LP since October:

1) The videos, by and large, were not good. LNOE video is one of their absolute worst, the others were mostly boring "band playing the song" pieces...consequently did not garner much MTV time.

2) Discotheque as the first single was polarizing, particularly for a lot of the "Joshua" type U2 fans. This was not a radio-friendly happy 3 min, 30 second single...it was dark, had dance rythms and was completely unlike anything U2 had done prior to this (I personally love this song). In terms of dance elements, this song was not indicative of the album, but this single fed the media whispers that U2 "had gone dance" which turned a lot of people - particularly in the US - off to purchasing the album. Ironic because the album is NOT a dance album.

3) Singles strategy was questionable, to say the least. LNOE and probably Please never should have been singles. These are not radio friendly songs (though ironically these two became the live highlights of PopMart). They kept releasing so many, in so many different formats, that the "strategy" appeared entirely incoherent.

4) The US press turned on U2...slagging the tour, which was underrehearsed and got off to a dismal (by U2 standards) start in Las Vegas. Early tour reviews were mixed, stadiums were not sold out the first couple of months, and lukewarm album reviews contributed to U2 being shelved for the most part. In Europe, the concert was better and deservedly got higher marks. Not coincidentally, the album fared better outside the US.

In other words, U2 got stuck by committing to tour dates too early. This meant the final recording days were rushed (single and live versions of If God Will Send, Please, and LNOE all vastly improve the LP recording)and the tour suffered through Leg I. Unfortunately, these less than spectacular (by U2 standard) shows gave the press all the material they needed to write off U2. Unfortunately, by the time Leg III returned in October, when U2 had PopMart down to a tee, few bothered to tune in.

So in summary it was both bad decisions by the band and the press just deciding to knock U2 while they were considered the big stadium rockers...U2 were fighting an inaccurate perception of the album from before it was even released, and it was an uphill battle all the way, particularly in the US.

I don't think it had a lot to do with the quality of the work that was done by U2 on the album...perceived quality, yes...POP is a difficult album that takes time to grow to, but as I said before the songs are there.

Good write. The first leg of the POP tour did suck because of the reasons you wrote. Leg III of Pop was much better. And u2 were their worst enemy as before it's release Bono kept calling it a dance album, which it is not. It's a shame many people on Leg I of the tour had to pay all that money to see a not that well put together show.

 

[new orleans]

Originally posted by *Stormy*:
*APPLAUSE*!!!

I have noticed those same things and I feel exactly the same way and agree with everything you said!!

Yes there is a terrible disproportionate(what a perfect word for this) number of POP fans on this board compared to the overall U2 fan population. I think it's because this site, and the www in general, came to life at the time it came out, and those who liked it came here, and continue to be vocal here, but there is no doubt the 'disproportionate' thing is true. Why is it I have never met a POP fan anywhere but here? I know lots of people of all ages who make fun of POP.

Oh, some will make their excuses, but I will tell you why I didn't like it. I am no casual fan. I have been a big fan since the War days. I bought AB and yes, even Zooropa, though the latter did put a bit of a scare in me as to where U2 was headed.(though Stay is one of my favorite songs) My worst fears were confirmed with POP. My band had freaked out. Bono shaved his frigging head, had on the most ridiculous outfit I had ever seen on a grown man, Edge looked like a cheap pimp from a bad 70's b-movie, and Adam just looked like a reject from a costume party. The Discotheque video turned me off, yes. It was a complete joke. No, not in a 'funny/having fun' way, in a stupid/sad way. They looked like idiots. I mean, most people hated the original Village People and now U2 was acting like them? I looked at this goofball parade and thought, THIS is the band who gave me SBS? THESE are those guys in the desert who did that masterpiece JT? THESE are the cool, no-shit guys who did ZOOTV? NO WAY!! (GO back and read the post I made earlier in this thread about the Bill and Ted parody- when I read that I was LMAO because that's exactly what it looked like!!)
Sorry, I just could not accept that. Yes, the image and the look did have a lot to do with turning me off, as well as many other fans I know and don't know. I recall waiting with anticipation for the K-Mart announcement, but when I saw them, and the way they acted, I wanted nothing to do with them. I didn't watch the TV special, which BTW was the lowest rated non-news program ever at the time. I don't think I was the only U2 fan who didn't want to see 'that' U2.

(One interesting thing I've noticed about this too is that while many older fans looked at and listened to POP and said 'what the hell is that' it's happening the other way around now too. There are some young fans who only took up with them at ATYCLB who are exploring the past stuff, come across Pop and also go, uh, what the hell is that? Coming in from two different directions, for some the reaction was the same.)

Okay- on to the music. Yes, the image was an immediate turnoff and scared me away right away, but if the music had been good it would have made some difference. It wasn't. I don't like the type of music most of those songs were. They were horrible noise to me, and still are. Some, like LNOE, actually make me feel sick to my stomach. I find MOFO impossible to listen to all the way through. Then there was Miami. Playboy Mansion. Of course, the idiocy which was Discotheque with its stupid sounding beat and its lameass lyrics. They seemed like it just didn't fit, not only like it wasn't 'them' but like it just didn't work, wasn't meant to be and there was a great disturbance in the force. Bono's voice was failing him. The type of music seemed so out of place for their abilities, strengths and talents. So, sadly I was, for the first time ever REPELLED from U2 as if they had become a smelly trash can surrounded by flies. Being a devoted fan up until that point, I do not consider myself not a 'true fan.' But, you know, sometimes there are things people do that piss you off, even the people you love very much, as so it was with me and U2.

Look at the legacy of POP compared to the other records. Songs from War, UF, JT and AB are all still played on the radio a lot. I haven't heard a POP song in years, and even in its day SATS was the only one that made the regular playlists. The facts are there, this album, though not the worst thing ever done, was within reason to believe the worst output U2 had ever done, and it cost them.

BTW- The media bashing had NOTHING to do with my dislike for Pop. I formed all my opinions on my own, and honestly I never really noticed any media negativity until I got back into U2 in 2000 started reading articles and stuff online.

Yes, am one of those who came back with ATYCLB. I was in line to buy it the day it came out. So were others, mostly 30-something women, like me. Were we gloating that 'our U2' was 'back'? Well, not out loud anyway. If anyone resents people being happy that U2 was 'back' that is really sad. You do want the best for your band, don't you? Are you just so bitter that Pop was not the success the other albums were? There were reasons for that. Loads of U2 fans rejected it and not enough others picked up the slack. No, U2 did not 'backslide' to the 80's, they just changed again, matured, took on a new perspective which made them write different songs, and maybe, just maybe, came to their senses. You people who like Pop, you have every right to. But don't continue to make excuses for it and glorify it in ways it has already been proven not to deserve. Just listen to it and enjoy it for what it is, and have fun. Whatever, I am very eternally grateful for U2's change in image and sound with ATYCLB and only hope they will continue with sincerity and what is in their hearts in the future and not ever try to put on some kind of act again just to prove they have 'changed.' Hey guys, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. U2 rules.

TOUCHE STORMY!!! I couldn't aree more. ATYCLB is a much more mature album than POP. It seems most of the people who write on this forum are young and the first time they heard of U2 was when POP came out. They would consider me old. My first U2 concert was in 1982 on the riverboat President in New Orleans. I didn't know who they were. I was on the boat to get drunk and chase the ladies. But, after hearing a few songs I spent most of the ride drinking beer and listening to U2. Personally I like most of POP I just did not like the image U2 portrayed at the time. The uniforms coming out of that STUPID LEMON. DISCOTEQUE, Edge in that cowboy hat. U2 is above all that BS. Their music doesn't need all that crap. Again, nicely put Stormy.

 

[MrPryck2U]

You know what's great about POP? After 5 years, it still drives people batty. POP has sold at least 8 million copies worldwide. If that's a flop, give me a call.
Hey, thanks for calling me stupid. I'm MrPryck! Do you think I care? If you don't like POP, awesome! Imagine if U2 released Passengers as a "U2" album? Everyone here would really have their knickers in a twist.
Does anyone here remember when Bono said "fuck" at the 1994 Grammies? He said this in reference to keep fucking up the mainstream music scene. That's exactly what U2 did with POP. Except, in this case, they fucked up a lot of their own followers. Some of these followers who don't even want to say the word "fuck". U2 took a chance with POP and overestimated some of these said followers. Oh well, can't win 'em all. Even the almighty U2. Open your mind folks! I love the 80's U2, the 90's U2 and the U2 of today! Keep it comin' Boys! Rock and Roll Doggie!

------------------
The goal is ELEVATION!

 

[Shine * Like* Stars*]

Nah, nope, not a bit. I feel it was a rough spot in the road that must be passed, a flooded river that must be crossed, or a case of the flu that must be gotten over, so you can move on to the better things on the other side. That's all the diatribe you'll get from me. Some of you ppl are too longwinded LOL!

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by bullet the blue sky:
I have to disagree with everyone that doesn't agree with me here.

Ha ha! That's funny!

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by MrPryck2U:

Hey, thanks for calling me stupid. I'm MrPryck! Do you think I care? If you don't like POP, awesome! Imagine if U2 released Passengers as a "U2" album? Everyone here would really have their knickers in a twist.
Does anyone here remember when Bono said "fuck" at the 1994 Grammies? He said this in reference to keep fucking up the mainstream music scene. That's exactly what U2 did with POP. Except, in this case, they fucked up a lot of their own followers. Some of these followers who don't even want to say the word "fuck". U2 took a chance with POP and overestimated some of these said followers. Oh well, can't win 'em all. Even the almighty U2. Open your mind folks! I love the 80's U2, the 90's U2 and the U2 of today! Keep it comin' Boys! Rock and Roll Doggie!

I didn't call you stupid. I called what you wrote "stupid", and it was. You rake me over the coals for not spelling out the entire word of a well-known four letter word. Then you proceed to tell me that the fact that I feel uncomfortable with the word "speaks volumes" and leaves it at that, without explaining what volumes that speaks about me. You still haven't told me what volumes that speaks about me. That IS stupid. It's a little hit and run jab.
Folks, first we learned that you must like POP to be a true U2 fan, and now we have another prerequisite to be a true U2 fan;
You must be totally comfortable with the four letter curse word that starts with "F".
Too bad, I thought I was a U2 fan...

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 03-31-2002).]

 

[Zoocifer]

It's the blind leading the blonde ...

~z~

------------------
" You love this town - even if that doesn't ring true. You've been all over, and it's been all over you " - Bono

" Don't you know there ain't no Devil, that's just God when he's drunk " - Tom Waits

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

what about those of us who hate atyclb? i love pop and i hate atyclb.

------------------
in august moon's surrender to a dust cloud on the rise...
ME! all day, every day!
"...a poptart in pants..." -- elizabeth

 

[bullet the blue sky]

Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes:
what about those of us who hate atyclb? i love pop and i hate atyclb.

Now now, you'll only start a fight!

 

[WHYWHY]

Can I say this? (No offense to any readers)

I HATE every U2 record. That's right...they suck. The utmost pinnacle of ignorance, and arrogance in my opinion. They went way of the trail after the Battle of the Bands in 1979......


but I'm still a U2 fan.....

Does that makes sense?

Ofcourse it does....in it's own non-sensical fashion.....

So, let me get to my point (if there is one)........SOME people don't like U2, some people LOVE U2.....is there a message that's any simpler?

Does this have any relevance to this topic?
Well........probably not, but hey! Who cares?


Oh.....some of you do....*whoops*
Love you all.
Bless ya!
WHYWHY.

 

[WHYWHY]

Originally posted by u2utah:
I take it you don't like ATYCLB.

Did I say that? Oh yeah....just above

Originally posted by u2utah:
(Another issue for the US is the release of Discotheque as a single. No one in the US had used that word for at least 30 years!)

[/B]

LOL!
Bless ya.
WHYWHY

 

[WHYWHY]

Originally posted by bullet the blue sky:

Now now, you'll only start a fight!

LOL!
Can I join in?
Sorry, I just have to make fun of everything here.....cause.......cause, well cause.
If I say too much I might have my own head bitten off

.

Bless ya.
WHYWHY.

 

[Saracene]

"And in fact, the only person I take exception to here is the one who said they hated Velvet Dress and would be happy never to hear it again. Well, all I can say is that you must not have an ounce of sex in your body!"

Gee, then whatever makes me swing my hips to "Mysterious Ways" and "Big Girls..." must be a mechanical contrivance of some sort, for sure,

I've watched POPMart again and I still think that their costumes were bloody ridiculous, and it doesn't have anything to do with their ages. They'd look silly in them no matter how old they were. I realise that the silliness and gaudiness was probably intentional, but it just doesn't make them look any less ridiculous. Having said that, I still love Edge's electronic cowboy look, but that's only because he can't help looking cool, calm and collected no matter what he wears,

As for POP being U2's "most daring album"... well perhaps I'm not really a good judge because I wasn't a fan back then, but having heard POP it sounds for the most part like a pretty straightforward rock album with a few electronic touches (some of which are completely unnecessary IMO and only clutter the songs). I wonder if POP has this aura of "misunderstood daring genius" for some people exactly because it didn't sell many copies (which IMO had more to do with the poor marketing and some really dumb choices rather than the music itself).

 

[scatteroflight]

Originally posted by The Wanderer:


not that I disagree with you, but be prepared for a good ole bashing here lad, and it won't be pretty once staunch Pop haters like Salome, 80sBest and Scatteroflight arrive on the scene... you're fucked, there's no way around that now (p.s., if I've incorrectly identified you as a member of the male persuasion I apologize)

Lay off.

This thread reminds me why I have recently decided to stay away from Interference for good, pretty much. So why am I here?? Bye.



------------------
Your sun so bright it leaves no shadows, only scars
Carved into stone on the face of earth
The moon is up and over One Tree Hill
We see the sun go down in your eyes

 

[Seconds]

It seems that everytime we discuss POP it always ends up in a heated argument.

Why can't we just create a POP forum. In that way, people who love the album can rave about its "better than achtung baby" lyrics, its innovation, its coolness and everything that is perfect about about it, 24 hours a day.

While people like me, don't have to be constantly told that I'm not a real U2 fan cause I don't enjoy POP.

 

[WHYWHY]

Originally posted by scatteroflight:
Lay off.

This thread reminds me why I have recently decided to stay away from Interference for good, pretty much. So why am I here?? Bye.

Hehe, scatteroflight
If your sick of the bickering, you'll find a home in the "Peeling off those dollar bills" forum.
But, I must say, Wanderer didn't really insult him or anything, just let him know what he was in for.....
uh oh.....
ummmmm......
i see i might be getting MYSELF into something here......
uh oh.....don't pay any attention to the aobve remarks!

well, except for the part where you would find a home in "Peeling off those dollar bills"....
Is this a bit repeptitive?
Uh oh.....
I might be getting MYSELF into something here.....
uh oh.....

I guess you get the picture?
We've all heard this before....
uh oh.....


WHYWHY.

 

[oliveu2cm]

Originally posted by Zoocifer:
No, but seriously - the Pop era will always stand out in my mind for two reasons. One, it is when I "found" U2. Two, U2 seemed to be darker, alittle bit hipper, and there was more attitude in the music. It showed
me that you could mix many different styles of music but still be who you are.

I totally agree with you here. I Love Pop, but for me it's hard to compare their albums- i always find it interesting why people get in huge arguments about Pop- some people get really defensive towards it and I'm not sure if that's just a reaction to the intensity some people hate it.

DYFL is one of my favorite songs. That beat and bass is just amazing. I know some of the album is unfinished (SATS for instance) and that's really unfortunate. But it does not disqualify it as an amazing album, filled with its own complexities and mysteries.

With ATYCLB, U2 took more time in doing the songs, didn't rush the tour, they better planned their attack on the media. Let's remember that Discotheque "failed" as a first single (imo) and I think Pop was in many ways an enormous reason ATYCLB did so well. They marketed the album and songs differently, they chose better singles to be released and did better videos.

Pop might be their most "daring album" in the sense that it's new to them.. not necessarily the music world. and it was daring in the sense that they knew not everyone would like it, but they still did it, b/c they had the songs in their heads.

Velvetdress.. why doesn't anyone like this song?? First of all it's so sexy.. Second of all the lyrics are really heavy. *shrugs* don't get that.

sorry to jump in late on this- but I love Pop. Maybe i'll post a true appreciation of the album in a little bit.

------------------
She never really belonged to me

U2 Take Me Higher

 

[dizzy]

I love Pop. I always see it this way...U2 can experiment and cross over to another style, a different sound, and YET still be good at it.

Originally posted by oliveu2cm:
Velvetdress.. why doesn't anyone like this song?? First of all it's so sexy.. Second of all the lyrics are really heavy. *shrugs* don't get that.

Agreed! Velvet Dress is so sexy.

On the lighter side, I miss Bono's Pop 'do.

 

[Desire4Bono]

I can't believe this thread is still going on. I think we *ALL* need to realize a few things:

1. Those of you who love it so much, would you please accept the fact that some people, some very good fans, don't? When you keep going on ad nausem about how great it was and dismissing everyone's distaste for it as being 'stuck in the 80's' or 'didn't get it' or for some other reason were unable to grasp it? It becomes very offensive and only makes people want to post again, perpetuating the argument. It's like Tutti fruiti, some really dig it and it's just not somebody else's bag. Get a clue- here is nothing wrong with a person who does not like the album, and they are no less a fan.

2. Those who don't like it- I understand why the facts of POP's shortcomings are brought up to bolster your position, but it only makes the POP devotees more ferocious to defend it. As brought up by Seconds, there is a very large disproportionate number of POP fans here compared to the general 'pop'ulation. They are all going to come out of the woodwork when the battle cry is sounded, and the fight is on. It will only get worse. It will only make them want to post again, perpetuating the argument.

3.It seems the same positions have been stated repeatedly, and some points that have been made very well have been ignored in a later post when someone else brings up something that has already been rehashed. Shit, it has ALL already been rehashed!

After reading through these posts, it seems the only people who LOVE Pop and defend it furiously are those who started liking U2 at that time. Others may accept it, or be neutral on it, but in most cases it is that faction. I have also noticed a bit of hypocrisy here. POP touters are allowed to "miss" the era, while if another fan prefers 80's eras and music they are declared "stuck". POP devotees calling those who denounced POP 'not a true fan' while some of the same people who condemn them have dissed ATYCLB and other eras, making it sort of pot-calling-the-kettle black to doubt someone's fanhood for not enjoying one album.

On a lighter note, I really DON'T miss the fashion statements, and think they did have a lot to do with scaring people away and getting the band joked on. Even if they weren't too 'old' to dress like that, dammit they should've had better taste. I do NOT miss Bono's Pop look, especially that awful haircut. Dear God I can't get over how much better they all look now.

This is all ridiculous. U2 has put out several albums with several different sounds.There is something for everybody.
Like taking a trip around the All-you-can-eat Buffet or a pot luck dinner, not every single person will want or like every single thing. We all have our own tastes, so why in the hell can't we just listen to what we like, not listen to what we don't like, and stop nagging each other about it? Most of all WHY in the hell do any of us care what anyone else thinks?! The next time a thread like this surfaces, everyone could do us all a big favor by ignoring it.



[This message has been edited by Desire4Bono (edited 04-01-2002).]

 

[Desire4Bono]

I would like to say something on behalf of Scatteroflight. She is a good fan, and she doesn't fit any stereotype. She is 23 years old, but likes 80's U2 better than POP. That is her opinion and her right. It only shows how different we all are and no one should be labeled or condemned for anything.

Scatteroflight, I'm sorry you feel you don't want to be around here anymore. In a way I don't blame you, but I hate to see some of the best people gradually disappear from here. You and your opinions are just as good as anyone else here. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

 

[oliveu2cm]

Well since it is for Pop appreciation.. here goes:

Without Pop, you have nothing else to follow..

I see U2's albums as a journey through Bono's life: you start with Boy, inexperienced but emotionally charged and Ready for anything- just biting at the bit to get out there and stir up arguments, ask questions, why why why! (a theme that will run through all of his albums) You go through the JT period where his searching is a little more focused and a lot more descriptive and selective, more inquisitive to the outside world, you see his eyes opening to things he never
realized before. AB brings us thorugh a dark and murky period, with strippers dancing on the left hand side of the street in the neon with martinis and cigs aplenty, and on the right hand side of the street oh yeah, that place called home. Darkness and light.. sun and the moon. Zooropa, he's just totally lost himself in the darkness, stumblin around... oh yeah but he still has faith something's going to be there when he gets out.. he just doesn't want to THINK about it right now (aka Cash singing The Wanderer.)

Then you have Pop, dark and heavy and he's stumbled (alive, somehow) out of Zooropa and now he has to pick up the pieces of his life. See if he can put them back together, deal with the responsiblities he'd been running from. ATYCLB, at the end, he's settled down a little, gotten back to what's important to him.. the "later end" of his journey... his kids are incorporated a lot now, as is death, which never even seemed to be in question during his dark/party periods. After all
that's been done.. atyclb is showing him back to the basics, the stuff that you CAN'T leave behind.

on POP you have so much fuel:
(i won't go through them all)
Mofo:
such a naked song for Bono to write. He often stated that if any song could sum him up, this would be it. Singing about the juxtaposition of growing up without a mother.. and now his own daughters are growing up without a father. Looking for to save his soul... but he's looking in all the wrong places. Without a song like Mofo you wouldn't be able to have a song like Kite, where he can now go back and reexamine his relationship with his daughters.
DYFL: i love every line and beat and everything about this song. just hits me right. Some amazing lyrics, for instance: "take this scent hanging in the air, take this tangle of a conversation, turn it into your own prayer"
IGWSHA: turning back to God, wondering what would happen if God would.. but he is still "immature" in his relationship with God here and putting the blame / responsiblity on him (as bono is quoted a lot now saying that God
often gets a bad rap for OUR shortcomings)
SATS: My friend and I wrote a long thing about AB and SATS sort of wrapped it up.. a wonderful song with some of my favorite lyrics "Summer stretching on the grass" and "Waves that leave me out of reach Breaking on your back like a beach " this song goes into Bono fighting his own indifference "not suckin' on my thumb" as he at the same time
"staring at the sun" yeah he's not the only one but what's he doing about it?
Gone: bahhhh what an amazing, emotionally raw song. Could easily sum up his career. Dedicating it to Michael Hutchenson speaks volumes about that song. performed live, it fucking rocks.
Please: more inaction vs. action. Amazing song.
VelvetDress: just the openness of this song.. the uncertainty at the statement.. "if you wear that velvet dress.." what? he never says what will happen! but he's lying in bed and the moon scratches at his door, making him like a two year old, just wanting more. ahhh i love this song. the bass in it- stunning.
WUDM: a sincere plea to Jesus for help (this is more of a "rooted" song than IGWSHA, as he's asking an actual Person for help, rather than Angels, which can sometimes seem fantasy-like) This song is quite bitter and sad, a man wanting to believe.. but wondering if he even should bother.

In order to have an ATYCLB, you NEED an album like Pop. it is the bridge between Zooropa and ATYCLB. Musically it is also the last leg of their sonic challenge, really getting into beats and mixes, just pushing the envelope, as Bono likes to say. Where AB was the perfection of that, Pop pulled it a little further, to see how far the elastic band stretches. Whether it snapped or not is personal opinion. Through the exciting musical landscape Pop set, ATYCLB was able to
find its home.. the stuff you can't leave behind, the rhythms and sounds that define U2. So if anyone doesn't like Pop, but
loves ATYCLB, just keep in mind you need Pop to have an ATYCLB album. Or else they would have just repeated themselves, or not taken the leap into a new challenge, leaving a lot unfinished and unsaid. Pop allowed them to make mistakes, recover, still push forward; without Pop's mistakes, perhaps atyclb wouldn't be as polished as it, or Elevation be as amazing as it was.

This isn't even getting into how it let them experiment with the live aspect of the songs. Putting a gigantic billboard or movie to them.. playing with lights and space. Like someone on the dvd says, (willie?) PopMart was MADE for the screen. Again, just pushing the aspects of ZooTV to another level.. letting their imaginations run wild and holding on for the ride! They were at a point in their career where they could afford to do that (in every sense of the word.)

[edit: Just like to state, for the record your honor, I don't agree with the first post about the "true" U2 fan rubbish. I just happen to like Pop, and wanted to share my opinions on the album]


------------------
She never really belonged to me

U2 Take Me Higher


[This message has been edited by oliveu2cm (edited 04-01-2002).]

 

[Desire4Bono]

I do agree that without POP you would have had not ATYCLB and Elevation the way they turned out. Each album and each era has its own place and importance in time and history, and they all had a purpose. So there was a happy ending (though not the end!)for the band and the fans and we ALL have ALL the albums to enjoy, whichever we enjoy more, they are all there, always will be and nothing can take that away. That makes us the biggest winners of all. We are all U2 fans.