Who else misses the POP era?? (POP appreciation thread) - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-28-2002, 05:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoocifer:
I still don't get why "Miami" is bashed by most fans. If you really go in deep - the song structure of "Miami" and "New York" is very similar.

Drum loop. Same type of lyrics. Booming guitar parts.

I'm off subject now but my point is that "miami" is not a bad song. In fact I think of it as one of U2's "cooler" songs. It's tongue in cheek and fun.

~z~

I don't understand the hatred against Miami, either, Zoocifer. I absolutely hated Pop on my first listen, almost a year ago. I listened to it once, didn't like it, but I forced myself to not pay attention to the lyrics or much of the music and just kind of let it play and see if it clicked. It took 2 listens to make me realize that I liked Wake Up Dead Man and it was a very catchy song ( I don't get that either, now, lol.) I put Pop away to listen to other albums, but kept pulling it out again to listen to Wake Up Dead Man. I eventually stopped pushing the stop button on Winamp after it was on and let the whole album play... and let it sink in. My first 2 favourites after Wake Up Dead Man were the Playboy Mansion (which I still love and adore) and Miami. I don't love Miami as much as I used to, but I do not hate it at all.

Which makes me bring up another point entirely.

I love Pop, and I understand there is a group of people who will just never like it because it isn't their style or whatever. However, my experience with Pop shows I needed to listen to it more than once or twice or even 5 times to finally let it click. That's why I think most people need to just listen to it more than they want to -- to get it going and get hooked on a song, then get hooked on another.. and so on.

But like I said, I know there ARE people who will never like Pop.

Anyway, I will never understand why people don't like the Playboy Mansion or Miami, or Pop entirely. And I know, I got completely off-course.

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Old 03-28-2002, 06:58 PM   #22
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Ahh, the old "POP is a misunderstood, underappreciated album" debate. Haven't we been down this road before?
First off, POP is one of my favorite U2 albums. They are many great songs on it with only a few unmentioned skippers. We all know the story about the making, the release, the promotion and the commotion regarding the album, so I won't go over it again ad nauseum.(If you don't know, then ask someone else.)
Quite frankly, I don't miss the POP era at all. It had its time and place and it should stay there. My memories of that era are awesome, but I wouldn't want to go back or repeat anything. The Boys were needlessly slagged by the critics and the old-school fans and got fucked in the ass for it. I found myself constantly defending U2 because they had the balls to laugh at themselves, Rock and Roll and Western Civilization. Without POP though, we wouldn't have had ATYCLB; the album that brought all the fuckwads back onto the "U2 is great bandwagon". Meanwhile, I was there all along.
Now that the ATYCLB era is over, it'll be interesting to see what U2 comes up with next. I certainly won't hazard a guess. I trust, though, that whatever they release, I'll gobble it up like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

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Old 03-28-2002, 07:28 PM   #23
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Just to point out, some posters have accused me of trying to define who is or isn't a "real" fan and attempting to marginalize those who don't appreciate POP. In fact, if you reread my email, I simply stated that those who like POP are real fans (ie not along for a bandwagon ride or one or two big radio hits). I was implying that anyone who likes POP and appreciates its significance in the U2 cannon IS a "real" fan. That does NOT mean that anyone who doesn't like it isn't a fan...I'm not here to make that distinction. In other words, rest assured you can dislike POP and still be a U2 fan in my book. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I'll admit Playboy Mansion would probably be in my least favorite 10 songs by U2. And although many rave over Wake Up Dead Man, I find it boring and slow. But given the flack this album gets in the US, and the coldness that greeted the PopMart tour, the work done by U2 in this time period is too brilliant not to defend. And, as I stated before, POP will stand the test of time and have an enduring legacy, and that will vindicate the album more than anything.
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Old 03-28-2002, 07:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by new orleans:

The tour of POP sucked because to me it wasn't U2. U2 is about the music and with POP the stage took over the music. And seeing U2 dressed up in those asinine costumes coming out of that stupid space ship/lemon was too much. To me it did not even look like U2 was into it or giving it their all while performing. The ATYCLB tour is the U2 I know. Giving 110% throughout the show. It was good to have them back.
Thanks for saying that. Now I don't have to.
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Old 03-28-2002, 07:45 PM   #25
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I think the reason everyone gets to uptight about POP is that it is U2's most radical album... and whether you like it or not almost always says a tremendous amount about your own musical tastes and, by definition, your own personality and way of thinking.

The triumvirate of Zooropa-Passengers-POP is U2's most interesting phase, immaterial of whether you enjoy it or not. If you put those songs on, you will always find something else in there, whether it be a noise here or a rhythm there that you hadn't noticed before. By definition then, POP was never going to be a radio-friendly album (like, dare I say ATYCLB and to some degree Rattle and Hum) because it took too much EFFORT to listen to the songs properly.

POP was more of a 'vibe' record than a 'melody' record. It was based on beats and rhythms for the most part. As one review I read said "it sounds great, but where are the tunes?" - but again, that goes back to making an effort with music. Not all songs are ready-made hits. Take Please for example - on first listen, who'd have thought that would be such a favourite with the fans?

As for POPMart itself, by the time it came to Europe it had finally found its feet, but the first American leg was rather disappointing. And, again, whether you like it or not, the reason POP and POPMart were more successful outside America was that America was not ready for that type of music.

Actually, POPMart was a lot simpler than ZOO TV. Okay, so they emerged from a lemon from the encore. But other than that, what else was there? A big television screen. That was it. The band's outfits were a lot better than on the Elevation tour, too!

With ATYCLB U2 have gone from one extreme to the other. I'm not saying it is a 'safe' album - if you listen to Beautiful Day carefully, it's actually quite a complex song! - but it would be a shame if the adverse reaction to POP would end U2's sense of adventure. Because without that, you would never have had The Joshua Tree and The Unforgettable Fire, never mind POP.

In summary, I hope the next album is more Discotheque than Stuck In A Moment.
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Old 03-28-2002, 08:45 PM   #26
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I miss it even thought I missed it....it will always be my favorite U2 era and Pop will always be my favorite U2 album. Love the clothes, love the whole 'look,' love the music, the experimentation, love the 'over the topness' of the tour, love the way they never took themselves seriously. It was just *fun.*
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Old 03-28-2002, 09:14 PM   #27
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I love POP top to bottom, but I wouldn't want them to revisit that period again. I doubt they ever will. I think they know the risk is too great. That's why POP is even more special to me, because know it will never happen again. It is unique to their career. I don't think they will ever stray so far from their trademark sound again. I hope they continue to experiment, but more in the style of Stateless, Beautiful Day & In A Little While.
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Old 03-28-2002, 09:27 PM   #28
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Pop was my introduction to U2 and it will always hold a special place in heart and music collection, but that being said, I love the life outlook that ATYCLB has. I don't see U2 doing another pop because that doesn't seem to be where the main lyricist is at spiritually and emotionally. One thing I really love about following U2's music is the way they seem to go through intellectual, emotional and spiritual changes...and often the music seems to reflect where the band is at in their lives. The AB triology had a pessimistic, the world is messed up..are there really any books left to read..psuedo postmodern vibe to it, and I don't think this is where the band is at anymore.
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Old 03-28-2002, 09:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoocifer:
I still don't get why "Miami" is bashed by most fans. If you really go in deep - the song structure of "Miami" and "New York" is very similar.

Drum loop. Same type of lyrics. Booming guitar parts.

~z~


Definitely... it is one of my favorite songs, and just like New York, it starts off quietly, then crashes into drums and guitar... and both are about cities... coincidence?

Anyways, I love POP, I always will, but this has been argued to death, and it will be argued for as long as people remember U2... was POP a landmark album, fresh and innovative, a testament to the band's development and removal from the mainstream... or proof that the band had lost it?

People are going to argue the quality of every album a band or artist makes, but POP seems to be the most debated, only because it divided so many fans among lovers and haters of the album. But people argue about Boy, October, War, UF, JT, Rattle & Hum, AB, Zooropa, and ATYCLB as well...

But a U2 fan is no less of a fan because they do not prefer a certain album... for me, it was one of those albums that had to grow on me, and I fell in love with it slowly, more and more each time I played it... and I would love to revisit each era of U2,including the ones I never got to love through, so of course POP will be on my list. I didn't quite understand the whole POP era and their scheme when I was living through it and only now am I beginning to realize what they meant by all of it, so I would like to go back and see it all again...

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Old 03-28-2002, 10:10 PM   #30
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I love POP but I have fears that it won't stand the test of time... the American media bashes it a lot and look at Zooropa... well received but now just a side note in the band's history... I hope POP gets better press b/c it was truly tops lyrically, conceptually, and sonically.

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Old 03-29-2002, 12:53 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by bullet the blue sky:
I think the reason everyone gets to uptight about POP is that it is U2's most radical album... and whether you like it or not almost always says a tremendous amount about your own musical tastes and, by definition, your own personality and way of thinking.
I guess your feelings about any album tell something about who you are (even though most of the times it won't tell you anything interesting)
I don't think POP is an exception in this

Quote:
The triumvirate of Zooropa-Passengers-POP is U2's most interesting phase, immaterial of whether you enjoy it or not.
musically it is
but when you look at the lyrics or the emotions songs manage to provoke those albums aren't more interesting than any other U2 album
personal preferences aside

Quote:
POP was more of a 'vibe' record than a 'melody' record. It was based on beats and rhythms for the most part. As one review I read said "it sounds great, but where are the tunes?" - but again, that goes back to making an effort with music. Not all songs are ready-made hits.
ah, 'making an effort with music'
I'm not musically lazy
I prefer John Coltrane to Miles Davis even though Miles is far more melodic
I love Frank Zappa, I love Aphex Twin
a lack of tunes is not nesecarely a problem for me, but - if you theory is right - perhaps POP shows that U2 is far better at writing melodies then they are at trying to create a vibe?
I feel POP was more of an effort on U2 then on me (unlike Zooropa, an album I absolutely love)
it was a brave effort, but not one with the results they expected

Quote:
Take Please for example - on first listen, who'd have thought that would be such a favourite with the fans?
if it wasn't for the live version (that shows the problem about POP not being U2's best produced album) it would never have been

Quote:
but it would be a shame if the adverse reaction to POP would end U2's sense of adventure. Because without that, you would never have had The Joshua Tree and The Unforgettable Fire, never mind POP.
I think ATYCLB shows an immense sense of adventure
"Stuck in a moment", "In a little while" and "Grace" all covered territories U2 had never dared to embark upon
while "Elevation" and "New York" are more likely to be compared to the band's work on POP then on any other U2 album

Quote:
In summary, I hope the next album is more Discotheque than Stuck In A Moment.
I don't nesecarely
I just hope they do something that they are able to do very well
not something they do rather well (but not as well as other artists) but have never done before

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[This message has been edited by Salome (edited 03-29-2002).]
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Old 03-29-2002, 01:36 AM   #32
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[AutoReply] I love POP! Sure some people don't understand the album because it's kind of heavy and deep, but if you listen to it long enough, you'll get it! [AutoReply]


Edited to clarify that I'm joking with the above statement!!!..lol

[This message has been edited by pub crawler (edited 03-31-2002).]
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Old 03-29-2002, 02:05 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Saracene:
POP... the times when an aging rock band tried to be hip and cool to the kids by hopping on a techno music bandwagon while wearing the most ridiculous costumes in the known universe and trying to force an undercooked album down the public's collective throat.

Nah, I love POP, it's just that I can't stand any smug statements of what "true fans" are supposed to be and what they're supposed to like. Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy knowing what a superior taste in music you have. And I really cannot understand why so many people feel the need to constantly put down ATYCLB in order to affirm POP's greatness; can't it just be praised on its own terms?

Ok, I think that Miami is a horrible stinker and Playboy Mansion & Velvet Dress are kinda lifeless, but Gone, Discotheque, Wake Up Dead Man, Last Night On Earth are all as good as anything U2 have written and Mofo is one of Bono's most personal songs ever. Bono's lyrics are simply superb except when he tries to be too clever on Playboy Mansion and comes off a bit cringeworthy IMO.

[This message has been edited by Saracene (edited 03-28-2002).]
Well put. Overall POP was a good album except for the songs you mentioned. To meet Velvet Dress may be the worse song ever written by U2. As I said the album was good the tour sucked. I first saw U2 live on the riverboat President in New Orleans back in 1981 or 1982 and have been following them ever since. The tour of POP sucked because to me it wasn't U2. U2 is about the music and with POP the stage took over the music. And seeing U2 dressed up in those asinine costumes coming out of that stupid space ship/lemon was too much. I saw POP twice, Memphis & New Orleans, and it was the least favorite tour I've seen. To me it did not even look like U2 was into it or giving it their all while performing. The ATYCLB tour is the U2 I know. Giving 110% throughout the show. It was good to have them back.
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Old 03-29-2002, 07:43 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler:
[AutoReply] I love POP! Sure some people don't understand the album because it's kind of heavy and deep, but if you listen to it long enough, you'll get it! [AutoReply]
You know, this irritates me. Some people act like people who don't like Pop 'didn't get it' or understand it, which I find insulting. I really dislike the sound of it in general, and the more I listen to it the worse of a headache I get. I know what it's about, but I still do not enjoy it because it is distasteful to me in many ways. Please understand and respect that some people really honestly do not like the album, and some of us also dislike the era in general, and that we never will like it, and knock off the 'didn't get it' crap please. Y'know, if I didn't know better, I'd swear some of you were 'stuck in the 90's LMAO!!!



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Old 03-29-2002, 10:10 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by bullet the blue sky:
I think the reason everyone gets to uptight about POP is that it is U2's most radical album... and whether you like it or not almost always says a tremendous amount about your own musical tastes and, by definition, your own personality and way of thinking.

The triumvirate of Zooropa-Passengers-POP is U2's most interesting phase, immaterial of whether you enjoy it or not.
These are your opinions, yet you state them as fact. I find it presumptuous.

And by the way, I love Pop, but in my opinion, Achtung Baby/ZooTV was a more interesting phase.

As for POPMart itself, by the time it came to Europe it had finally found its feet, but the first American leg was rather disappointing. And, again, whether you like it or not, the reason POP and POPMart were more successful outside America was that America was not ready for that type of music.

Or maybe, whether you like it or not, the America audience didn't respond as well because PopMart had not "found its feet" yet.



[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 03-29-2002).]
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Old 03-29-2002, 10:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Autumn454:
You know, this irritates me. Some people act like people who don't like Pop 'didn't get it' or understand it, which I find insulting. I really dislike the sound of it in general, and the more I listen to it the worse of a headache I get. I know what it's about, but I still do not enjoy it because it is distasteful to me in many ways. Please understand and respect that some people really honestly do not like the album, and some of us also dislike the era in general, and that we never will like it, and knock off the 'didn't get it' crap please. Y'know, if I didn't know better, I'd swear some of you were 'stuck in the 90's LMAO!!!
I agree totally.
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Old 03-29-2002, 10:26 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkfire:
Just to point out, some posters have accused me of trying to define who is or isn't a "real" fan and attempting to marginalize those who don't appreciate POP. In fact, if you reread my email, I simply stated that those who like POP are real fans (ie not along for a bandwagon ride or one or two big radio hits). I was implying that anyone who likes POP and appreciates its significance in the U2 cannon IS a "real" fan. That does NOT mean that anyone who doesn't like it isn't a fan...I'm not here to make that distinction. In other words, rest assured you can dislike POP and still be a U2 fan in my book. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Well, to be honest, you did write:

"many casual U2 fans or 80s U2 fans (is there a worse kind?)"

which is quite an insult.
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Old 03-29-2002, 10:29 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrPryck2U:
The Boys were needlessly slagged by the critics and the old-school fans and got fucked in the ass for it. I found myself constantly defending U2 because they had the balls to laugh at themselves, Rock and Roll and Western Civilization. Without POP though, we wouldn't have had ATYCLB; the album that brought all the fuckwads back onto the "U2 is great bandwagon". Meanwhile, I was there all along.
So, would you call someone who liked U2 since 1984, but then didn't like Zooropa or Pop, but then became interested again with ATYCLB a "f***wad"? Let me be clear on that; is that what you are saying?
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Old 03-29-2002, 10:36 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Well, to be honest, you did write:

"many casual U2 fans or 80s U2 fans (is there a worse kind?)"

which is quite an insult.
[teasing] only if you're the kind of U2 fan that has the gall to go by a nick like 80sU2isbest. Couldn't that statement offend 90s U2 fans? *ahem* [/teasing]
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Old 03-29-2002, 01:55 PM   #40
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This hasn't exactly turned into a "Pop Appreciation thread" now has it?

Hmmm, Must say something nice about Pop....

Pop has really great lyrics. Some of the best IMO.

Just wish I could hear them over all that noise.

My opinion of Pop is that it's a great rock album buried under a mountain of electronica cra-, er, stuff. Electronica is great for dance music, but Pop isn't a dance record, it has rock rhythms. I defy anyone to dance to most songs on Pop

Experimentation with new sounds is great, I just think the those sounds were allowed to overwhelm the songs. That's why I was happy to hear that it wasn't ever fully "finished" to their satisfaction, because that's how it sounded to me. More mixing and balancing was needed.

Most of the songs on Pop are really quite good (except for Velvet Dress and Miami, two songs that if I never hear again it will be too soon Ah well, you can't like everything)

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