U2 CDs will now be copy-protected...be afraid...be very afraid.

[DoctorGonzo]

Several of the major record labels have announced that by this time next year, all of their CDs will use one form of copy protection or another. This will include U2 CDs.

What does this mean?

- No more MP3 ripping.

- No more listening to your CDs in a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM/RAM drive (Dependning on the scheme used)

- Attempting to circumvent (or play the CD while your stereo is configured in a particular way) the copy protection may destory your audio equipment. (Depnding on the scheme used)

It should be noted, that many years ago, the software industry tried to copy-protect applications and the floppy disks themselves. It was a resounding failure and actually hurt sales in the long run because, as with this, it ended up hurting everyone while the pirates just kept on beating every scheme attempted.

[This message has been edited by DoctorGonzo (edited 09-30-2001).]

 

[Sledgehammer]

I think hackers will find a way

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"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." JFK

 

[melon]

Of course it was a resounding failure. What the music industry fails to realize is that "pirating" is the best form of advertising! It should be noted that, during the reign of Napster, record sales were as high as ever. In my case, I bought more CDs because of Napster, as I was able to preview new artists without listening to painfully short and deceptive sound bytes.

But business, like man, will never learn from history. Television was supposed to be the death of film, cassette recorders were supposed to be the death of music, VCRs were supposed to be the death of film, and now MP3s were supposed to be the death of music. In all cases, the industry was resoundingly wrong.

I can guarantee that hackers will win again. As encryption is developed by mankind and the machine inevitably is forced to decrypt, all it takes is to figure out how to do that decryption, write a program for it, and the hackers win. No encryption scheme will ever work for that reason.

I hate all industry. Maybe they should consider lowering their prices? No, that would be too easy.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

 

[Hawk269]

I predict this new format will be hacked even before its release. Some of the hackers out there are brilliant. The biggest mistake was made years ago, when the decision was made to go to digital music. The second mistake was making CD-ROMs that could rip CD's into wav files. Then mp3 just compressed these files and people traded away.

Not too swift on the part of record companies...they should have put 2 and 2 together to see that the internet was getting big and CD-ROMs were capable of ripping their songs into files. Now the damage is already done.


AJ

 

[Diemen]

I'm truly beginning to wonder whether the people making these decisions have absolutely any common sense at all. Make a cd you can't copy and people will stop buying cds, sales will go down, and then the record industry will be sitting there scratching their heads wondering why they're losing money.

And besides, doesn't this violate my rights as the owner of the cd? I paid for it, shouldn't I be allowed to do whatever I want with it in my own home, including listening to it on my computer and burning a couple songs onto a mix? As long as I'm not doing large scale cd burning and distributing, I'm really not doing any harm to their cash flow.

 

[melon]

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 gives them rights to trample over ours as consumers of their products.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

 

[DoctorGonzo]

And besides, doesn't this violate my rights as the owner of the cd? I paid for it, shouldn't I be allowed to do whatever I want with it in my own home, including listening to it on my computer and burning a couple songs onto a mix?

Not under The Digital Millennium Copyright Act. A nasty bit of legistlation that virtually elimiates all "Fair Use" rights and makes cirumventing encryption (or copy protection) a felony.

 

[MadelynIris]

I hate all industry

Melon,

Are you or anyone in your family employed?

Mark
http://www.mp3.com/madelyniris

 

[Bonochick]

Originally posted by melon:
Of course it was a resounding failure. What the music industry fails to realize is that "pirating" is the best form of advertising! It should be noted that, during the reign of Napster, record sales were as high as ever. In my case, I bought more CDs because of Napster, as I was able to preview new artists without listening to painfully short and deceptive sound bytes.

I agree with you there, melon.


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PLEBA: It's Just A Stinkin' Forum!!!!!!! Yeesh!!!!!!!

 

[Johnny Swallow]

Crap...that kind of makes me wish that I had been involved in the excitement of the ATYCLB clips being leaked.

That kind of hype may never happen again, dang it.

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This post brought to you by: Medea. "And women, though most helpless in doing good deeds, are of every evil the cleverest of contrivers."

AIM: JuanSwallow

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

someone somewhere will find a way to get around the system... the master minds of the internet are far too large

I agree that the copying etc. only helps the labels to profit. For some reason they have this idea that the mp3s replace additional sales, but on the contrary they just offer more exposure. There are plenty of cases where I personally found out about a band and turned to Napster to confirm the praises given to them... and in the end they got my sale.

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"Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up." -- Jesse Jackson

 

[SkeeK]

1) how fucking stupid are the record companies? good god! not being able to listen to music on computers is fucking stupid.

2) no one will want to buy these new CDs at all.. instead they will do all they can to get them illegally online and burn CDs which will be more functional, I know I will (good call record companies!)

3) The hackers will find a way around this anyway, just like they found a way around region encoded dvds and many other stupid marketing decisions, so maybe I shouldn't be too pissed off.

4) Goddamn the record companies are stupid.

 

[bullet the blue sky]

the vast majority of people will not notice any difference

 

[SkeeK]

Originally posted by Achtung_Bebe:

I agree that the copying etc. only helps the labels to profit. For some reason they have this idea that the mp3s replace additional sales, but on the contrary they just offer more exposure. There are plenty of cases where I personally found out about a band and turned to Napster to confirm the praises given to them... and in the end they got my sale.

They're also worried that mp3s support unpopular, independant artists (because they do). I, like you, have bought way more CDs than I ever would have without napster... in fact almost everything I listen to now besides U2 I would not have heard of without Mp3s... moby, enigma, delerium, massive attack, apollo 440, pj harvey, and a lot of it is stuff that you don't hear on the radio much.

Grrr. This is rather infuriating, even if it is more of an insult to the record company's own intelligence rather than our own..

 

[speedracer]

Originally posted by melon:
I hate all industry. Maybe they should consider lowering their prices? No, that would be too easy.

Even better...stop charging $17 for CDs that consist of 2 hit singles and 11 tracks of garbage.

 

[melon]

Originally posted by MadelynIris:
Are you or anyone in your family employed?

Are we supposed to treat our businesses like our family all of a sudden? I use them for money, that's all. I find the idea of "business allegiance" to be silly. They don't cry when they fire you.

I will inevitably have to work within "industry," but I will still hate it.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

 

[Johnny Swallow]

Originally posted by speedracer:
Even better...stop charging $17 for CDs that consist of 2 hit singles and 11 tracks of garbage.

Very wise grasshoppa...

 

[mbi16]

I too agree with melon and gonzo. And would like to emphasize the fact that common sense among the masses has seized to exist since the end of the 80's. The thought of thinking logically about something in order to achieve long term solutions is just too painful. Blame violence on movies, terrorism on religious fanaticism, and cd sales on mp3's. Looking at the root of the problem means admitting being wrong in a previous decision, and that's just too embarrassing. So cover it up with another stupidity.

Fact is industries aren't bad until they get too big where no one can check their power, and most have. Today most of the lobbying in Congress is done by big businesses that are able, with their big bucks, to sway even most logical decision into stupidity. Coca-Cola and other soda companies not wanting to reinstate the good old days of voluntarily returning bottles to the grocery store for recycling in return of a couple of cents comes to mind. They claim it is too inconvenient and actually cost more than just making another bottle. Bill denied.

So yes this will be another stupidity music fans will have to deal with. And just to clarify they claim to be able to encoded it so that you can play it in the comp just not record it into it. So while you can listen you no longer make those wonderful jukeboxes that you click random and listen to your own perfect radio station.

Now my question is why do the same business develop the technology to do these things? Why are they making portable Mp3 players, cd to cd equipment, double deck vhs, etc? They're just GREEDY bastards that want it ALL, up to the last penny, and that pisses me off. Especially when they claim they are protecting the artist's interests, when most haven't been consulted and don't give a damn.

I HATE CAPITALISM!!!!!

Sorry had to vent.
-Marina

 

[unforgettableFOXfire]

Down with capitalism!!



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"The less you have, the harder you fight for it."

 

[MadelynIris]

Wow - all this down with capatilism talk on a board for a band who's net worth is almost $1 billion dollars!

A band who is praised for negotiating superior deals, and who is always in the top 20 money makers in the U.K, year after year.

You'd think you guys would support indie music more, but I rarely see anyone ever post about great indie finds, or support of uknown labels.

And as far as encryption goes, you'll never fully defeat it. But it does cost a lot more money to make a record than what you guys think. Yeah, it costs $0.25 to press the CD, but it usually takes about a million bucks to produce a big label CD. It's a big gamble, and a big investment. Everyone hopes that it will at least make it's money back.

Don't get me wrong, I think MP3s, Napster, etc.. are great. But you also have to remember how much work goes into these things. They aren't really free.

Do you think Bono is against capitalism?
hehe.

And melon, I'm not sure where you got the family idea from? Industry being your family? What do you mean? I never said anything like that.


Mark
http://www.mp3.com/madelyniris




[This message has been edited by MadelynIris (edited 09-30-2001).]

 

[Generic Mafia]

Not until we say so.

 

[martha]

Originally posted by MadelynIris:
Wow - all this down with capatilism talk on a board for a band who's net worth is almost $1 billion dollars!

A band who is praised for negotiating superior deals, and who is always in the top 20 money makers in the U.K, year after year.

And as far as encryption goes, you'll never fully defeat it. But it does cost a lot more money to make a record than what you guys think. Yeah, it costs $0.25 to press the CD, but it usually takes about a million bucks to produce a big label CD. It's a big gamble, and a big investment. Everyone hopes that it will at least make it's money back.

Do you think Bono is against capitalism?

1. There may be a link between high CD prices and the contracts the bands negotiate.

2. Can I still make audio tapes?




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...a highway with no one on it, a treasure just to look upon it...

"The skeletal structure of your foot is not normal." -- my podiatrist 8-6-01

 

[the olive]

Here is a recent quote from Steven Tyler (Of Aerosmith):

"If Napster's a bat smacking the balls of music, who invented the mitt? Sony? The labels? We've been getting ripped off for years. We get $2.50 on a $19 CD? Give me a break. Where's the justice there?"

Well said, Dude.

 

[Nick Carter's Angel]

Can't you put audio tapes onto a computer and then put it into MP3s? So couldn't everyone just make a tape of a CD, put it on and then still trade everything? Those record co's are so stupid, we have all bought tons more music than ever before because we can hear new artists we probably would never have known of before. There should be a boycott, and they would soon stop making CDs so we can't copy them.

 

[Blue Room]

Yes NCA you can convert cassette to digital CD. Obviously it isnt as easy as converting a CD to wave or mp3 format but it can be done. I suspect that it is one way around the copyright protection that the industry will be able to do nothing about and as mentioned previously you know that computer hackers are going to find away around the encryption. They use similiar encryption for video game CD's and it is no problem to get around that (from what I have been told).

 

[Peter Lemonjello]

No more making 16 copies of N'Sync to put in every room in the house!!Shit!

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-Giddyup.

 

[SkeeK]

It is a fairly easy matter for someone with high quality equipment to play the CD, then simply record it with a line-in to the computer and then turn it into an mp3 file.. and probably with just as good quality as we get now. Then the guy will make the mp3 available to the public on the net, as the record companies sit scratching their silly little chins.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

For once, I agree with SkeeK -- the simple, lo-tech hack is all that will be needed.

Once the audio leaves the amp, it can NO LONGER be copy protected. So, connect your home system's amp to your PC, and viola! Rip near-CD quality MP3s.

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- Achtung Bubba

 

[Klodomir]

Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
- Attempting to circumvent (or play the CD while your stereo is configured in a particular way) the copy protection may destory your audio equipment. (Depnding on the scheme used)

Well, they've been saying that about everything going back at least to the Commodore 64 games, so I'm not too concerned about that bit.

Go hackers!!!

------------------
Geriatric Klodo

 

[DoctorGonzo]

Can't you put audio tapes onto a computer and then put it into MP3s? So couldn't everyone just make a tape of a CD, put it on and then still trade everything?

At least one of the schemes already in use introduces noise to the audio signal. Noise which the listener cannot hear normally. However, when they try to dub the CD, the noise becomes quite apparrent and is enough to blow out some equipment.

It's kind of like the Macrovision copy-protection on VHS tapes. The black part of the image is constantly going from bright to dark, but so subtley, you barely notice it. (It does shit on the picture quality a bit)

However, when copying a Macrovision-protected tape, the suble loss in quality between the two tapes is enough to make the cycling on the first tape ruin the picture quality on the copy you are making.