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bathiu

bathiu

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I know, it's the 3rd ATYCLB thread right now, but it's something I'd like to say to U2girl and other ATYCLB-lovers...

First, don't call people who do not worship ATYCLB as a God's work, 90's-worshippers/lovers.
I, and many other people, love the 80's just as much as the 90's U2, I (and I'm sure many others) only have a problem with U2000 and with nothing more...(HTDDAB is U2's 3rd masterpiece IMO and please don't connect those two albums).
Also don't call those people a "vocal minority"... only becaouse ATYCLB was bought by 3mln of people more, doesn't mean that all of them are now U2 fans (how many of them bought the album only because of huge promotional campaign and because it was "cool" to do buy it?)

ATYCLB is - IMO - emotionless, without "U2 spirit", the songs are "flat" and the production is weak - compare Walk On album version with single version and you'll know what I mean, album version is "compresed" like recorded in closed phonebooth, single version has so much space and life in it...


Perfect ATYCLB - for me....

- 1st - change the title, even if the real one isn't that bad

- 2nd - add another (young) lead producer to Eno/Lanois team (the guys have no idea what's going on in the music)

- 3rd - most important - the tracks:

1. Beautiful Day - with changed intro!
2. Stuck In A Moment - the acoustic version
3. Levitate - because it's GREAT and has alot of "80's" and "90s" in the production, yet it has this "new&classic-U2-mix" feel...
4. Elevation - the album version (no matter how bad it is, it's still better that Tomb Raider mix)
5. Kite - unchenged - the only thing done right on the real album
6. Flower Child - same as with Levitate + it's so much better than Wild Honey
7. Walk On - single version (you know, the totaly re-recorded version)
8. New York - because there has to be a "rocker" here somewhere... and since there's nothing better... but I'd change it to be more like the live version...
9. Stateless - well, imagine that TM$H O.S.T. is not released... and we have a very strong song + a link between the previous album and this album (something that every album has, except for ATYCLB)
10. The Ground Beneath Her feet - because it's a "classic" and it's a shame it was wasted for a soundtrack
11. When I look At The World - ok, Larry needs to re-record drums, or they have to change the sound of them in production (so that they don't sound like train "weels" on the track)
12. Summer Rain - because U2 albums can have 12 tracks and this song is good to end this album

That's how I listen to this album, it's realy great and SOOOO much better than the real thing. The most important is that it feels like an album, not like a collection of songs...
(No, I don't have the powers to magicaly change the production of the songs... but even without changing the songs this tracklist is much better than the album)

- 4th - the singles

Beautiful Day - with 'Always' and 'POE' as B-sides
TGBHF - something live and Grace & Big Girls Are Best as B-sides
Elevation - I'd say some remixes, just like it realy happened
Walk On - with Wild Honey and IALW as b-sides +something live...
Kite - 5th single would be great for a "bigest band in the world" with a live performance from one of the concerts as a video

- 5th - the videos - no U.S. versions of the videos and it should be OK...



Thank you for reading... :)
 
yeah... I have nothing against WH... I just think it would be better as a b-side for Walk On... and I don't think U2 would ever do a 13 tracks album...
 
I would object to the lack of inclusion of Grace, but it seems I'm one of the very small few here who actually loves that song
 
bathiu said:
2. Stuck In A Moment - the acoustic version
7. Walk On - single version (you know, the totaly re-recorded version)
Click to expand...

(you mean re-recorded by nigel goodrich with the alleluja part, right? if so i'm with you)

:bow:

so i'm not the only one here that thinks that Eno killed those two songs
 
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bathiu said:
I know, it's the 3rd ATYCLB thread right now, but it's something I'd like to say to U2girl and other ATYCLB-lovers...

First, don't call people who do not worship ATYCLB as a God's work, 90's-worshippers/lovers.
I, and many other people, love the 80's just as much as the 90's U2, I (and I'm sure many others) only have a problem with U2000 and with nothing more...(HTDDAB is U2's 3rd masterpiece IMO and please don't connect those two albums).
Also don't call those people a "vocal minority"... only becaouse ATYCLB was bought by 3mln of people more, doesn't mean that all of them are now U2 fans (how many of them bought the album only because of huge promotional campaign and because it was "cool" to do buy it?)
Click to expand...

First, by 90's worshippers I mean the people who do nothing but 100% ATYCLB bashing all the time, and never fail to say "POP was better" or "90's U2 is all that". The people who barge in threads about HTDAAB repeatedly just to say it sucks, and again, say "POP rules".
I think this word fits them perfectly.

(certainly better than being called a blind follower and a sheep and a whiner, which the ATYCLB lovers read)

YES, those people are the vocal minority. Majority of people here, and the 80's fans, enjoyed ATYCLB.
 
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bathiu said:
1. Beautiful Day - with changed intro!
2. Stuck In A Moment - the acoustic version
3. Levitate - because it's GREAT and has alot of "80's" and "90s" in the production, yet it has this "new&classic-U2-mix" feel...
4. Elevation - the album version (no matter how bad it is, it's still better that Tomb Raider mix)
5. Kite - unchenged - the only thing done right on the real album
6. Flower Child - same as with Levitate + it's so much better than Wild Honey
7. Walk On - single version (you know, the totaly re-recorded version)
8. New York - because there has to be a "rocker" here somewhere... and since there's nothing better... but I'd change it to be more like the live version...
9. Stateless - well, imagine that TM$H O.S.T. is not released... and we have a very strong song + a link between the previous album and this album (something that every album has, except for ATYCLB)
10. The Ground Beneath Her feet - because it's a "classic" and it's a shame it was wasted for a soundtrack
11. When I look At The World - ok, Larry needs to re-record drums, or they have to change the sound of them in production (so that they don't sound like train "weels" on the track)
12. Summer Rain - because U2 albums can have 12 tracks and this song is good to end this album

That's how I listen to this album, it's realy great and SOOOO much better than the real thing. The most important is that it feels like an album, not like a collection of songs...
(No, I don't have the powers to magicaly change the production of the songs... but even without changing the songs this tracklist is much better than the album)

- 4th - the singles

Beautiful Day - with 'Always' and 'POE' as B-sides
TGBHF - something live and Grace & Big Girls Are Best as B-sides
Elevation - I'd say some remixes, just like it realy happened
Walk On - with Wild Honey and IALW as b-sides +something live...
Kite - 5th single would be great for a "bigest band in the world" with a live performance from one of the concerts as a video

- 5th - the videos - no U.S. versions of the videos and it should be OK...
Click to expand...

Levitate and Flower child are weaker than ATYCLB songs, and don't belong there.

Stateless and Ground... are already on MDH soundtrack, though I agree they are very good songs. I think they fit better there, than the album.

Summer rain is too weak to make the album. Plus Grace is the perfect closer for ATYCLB.

POE, Grace, Wild honey and IALW B-sides? I don't think so.

Agreed, Kite should have been a single. (and IALW, instead of Elevation/Walk on)
 
Re: Re: Perfect ATYCLB... and a comment/message to...

U2girl said:


Plus Grace is the perfect closer for ATYCLB.
Click to expand...

Crappy closer for a disappointing album. Actually you're right about that.
 
Re: Re: Perfect ATYCLB... and a comment/message to...

First, by 90's worshippers I mean the people who do nothing but 100% ATYCLB bashing all the time, and never fail to say "POP was better" or "90's U2 is all that". The people who barge in threads about HTDAAB repeatedly just to say it sucks, and again, say "POP rules".
I think this word fits them perfectly.
Click to expand...

oh, great... you mentioned Pop again... and again you're offending people making up some quotes so that everyone that like Pop has to be ashamed of it... well, I'm used to see that in your posts, so... /sarcasm/"keep up the good work"/sarcasm/


YES, those people are the vocal minority. Majority of people here, and the 80's fans, enjoyed ATYCLB.
Click to expand...


I didn't know we have the alpha and omega of what other people think...
Or were you making a research or a global poll or something...
Simple facts here: U2 fans are not in groups like 80s and 90s, U2 has 5 great albums from the 80's (and R&H) and 3 great albums from the 90s.
How can you say that someone can be a fan of one decade and not a fan of the other is beyond me... but it is something totaly diferent to like the 80s and the 90s and hate this mutant that was realeased in 2000... It's like 80's album trying to sound like being from the 90's... sick!
No matter how good the melodies are, if I can't stand the sound of the songs... and unfortunetly not every song was played live... I wont like the album...
so i'm not the only one here that thinks that Eno killed those two songs
Click to expand...
Only for me almost every song on this album is killed by Eno and/or Lanois.
And like I said, since there are only a few of them in live versions I wont "love" an album with so many flaws.

Many people give their honest and true opinions with deep analisis of why ATYCLB is one of U2's worst albums... and what you're doing? /quote/"You blind Pop-lovers/worshippers"... very creative I must say... and BTW this "minority" is growing.
And like I said only because album sold 3 mln copies more, doesn't mean there are 3 mlns new fans, or that all of them "love" the album and not bought it accidentaly (in ex. because it was hip to do).

Levitate and Flower child are weaker than ATYCLB songs, and don't belong there.

Stateless and Ground... are already on MDH soundtrack, though I agree they are very good songs. I think they fit better there, than the album.

Summer rain is too weak to make the album. Plus Grace is the perfect closer for ATYCLB.

POE, Grace, Wild honey and IALW B-sides? I don't think so.

Agreed, Kite should have been a single. (and IALW, instead of Elevation/Walk on)
Click to expand...


:huh: ...you mentioned something about "blind follower"?... No I wont say that... just that I totaly disagree with you.
Levitate, Flower Child, Stateless And GBHF and SM are better that half of the album, sorry.
Yes, POE, Grace, WH and IALW are b-side material in U2 standards... and if you can't see that even the biggest U2000 lovers have problems with those 4 songs than realy... "blind follower" is a good name.


/side note/ Predicting possible answers from you, I'd like to remind you that Pop was not mentioned above and that except for AB, the 90's are not very hight on my list of favorites (in the middle actualy, surrounded closely by the 80's albums)
 
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Why should we "perfect" ATYCLB when no U2 album is perfect? The realization of ATYCLB is HTDAAB, just as ATYCLB was the realization of its predecessor, POP.

Besides, even U2 haven't been fiddling around trying to perfect ATYCLB. Most of the ATYCLB songs when played live had the same basic structure as the album version so obviously U2 were happy.

Albums that need to be perfected are those unfinished albums which are a constant work in progress. Take POP, for example. U2 kept on fiddling with the structures of the songs in the live setting to get it right. Then the single versions of the songs were different and tweaked from the album versions. Finally, they re-did the versions again for the Best Of release. So a more appropriate thread would be on how to "finish" U2's unfinished work.

Anyway I don't want to limit my analysis to POP. Even with Achtung Baby, U2 struggled with Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses, releasing it as a single but with the Temple Bar Edit - and then struggling to play it decently live - trying full band and acousitc versions before scrapping it out of the setlist.

Meanwhile, there never seemed to be any inner struggle within U2 on perfecting ATYCLB (unlike another album where U2 seemed to be battling this inner demon to fix the album).

So in the end, I think ATYCLB is better left as it is, and U2 should concentrate on working on fixing up other messes they have made in the past which they have already started fixing up.

Cheers,

J
 
ATYCLB needs no changes, whatsoever. It's my second fave, behind October.
 
jick said:
Why should we "perfect" ATYCLB when no U2 album is perfect? The realization of ATYCLB is HTDAAB, just as ATYCLB was the realization of its predecessor, POP.

Besides, even U2 haven't been fiddling around trying to perfect ATYCLB. Most of the ATYCLB songs when played live had the same basic structure as the album version so obviously U2 were happy.

Albums that need to be perfected are those unfinished albums which are a constant work in progress. Take POP, for example. U2 kept on fiddling with the structures of the songs in the live setting to get it right. Then the single versions of the songs were different and tweaked from the album versions. Finally, they re-did the versions again for the Best Of release. So a more appropriate thread would be on how to "finish" U2's unfinished work.

Anyway I don't want to limit my analysis to POP. Even with Achtung Baby, U2 struggled with Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses, releasing it as a single but with the Temple Bar Edit - and then struggling to play it decently live - trying full band and acousitc versions before scrapping it out of the setlist.

Meanwhile, there never seemed to be any inner struggle within U2 on perfecting ATYCLB (unlike another album where U2 seemed to be battling this inner demon to fix the album).

So in the end, I think ATYCLB is better left as it is, and U2 should concentrate on working on fixing up other messes they have made in the past which they have already started fixing up.

Cheers,

J
Click to expand...

After your little speech (maybe even more than just one) in diferent ATYCLB thread I wouldn't expect this kind of post from you... but now, just wow, now you realy are predictable... since this post had NOTHING to do with my first post I guess you just wanted some healthy "from-time-to-time" trolling in that post...

If you even care about my opinion, live versions of Beautiful Day, Walk On and New York are as diferent from album versions as diferent Gone, Discotheque, Love Is Blindness were from their album versions... It's a thing they always do.
Also if you wanted to make a point, you should've said that Mofo, LNOE, EBTTRT, IYWTVD even Lemon and a huge number of songs from the 90's were played unchanged to their studio versions just like Stuck In a Moment and IALW were played unchanged...
 
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bathiu said:
just like Stuck In a Moment and IALW were played unchanged...
Click to expand...

IALW was changed for the live setting, with a different chord progression and higher octave.

Walk On is truly the only song from ATYCLB that was unfinished. The band has mentioned this in numerous interviews and is also supported by the different single version. They struggled so much with it because of the splicing of two songs - Walk On and Home.

Anyway, I found myself listening to ATYCLB yesterday and it's weird, but it really lends itself to high-volume listening. I somehow can't do that with Hut Dab. I think Hut Dab starts slower and more subdued. I know - how can I say that when there's Vertigo and L&PoE. Still, I remember blasting ATYCLB in my car when I first got the CD, but not Hut Dab. :shrug:

I do find these Pop vs ATYCLB arguments interesting. I sincerely like both albums. Pop was harder to digest but very satisfying, while ATYCLB was tasty right away. It's hard to compare the two because they are so different, but there is a definite occassion for each. Plus, my enjoyment of each is driven by what was going on in my life at the time of each release. And let me tell you, those two lives of mine were very different from each other. I think this is what helps me derive satisfaction from two diametrically opposed albums.
 
1. Beautiful Day: Leave it! This is one of the best written songs ever..
2. Levitate: Agreed. I really like this one
3. Elevation – I am torn on this song. The second coming of Party Girl…
4. Stuck: If you have to have it (and the album does) go with the acoustic version)
5. Kite – Not as big of a fan as the rest of you, but the lyrics are terrific
6. Flower Child – Because Elevation cannot lead into Kite (F-I-L-L-E-R)
7. In a Little While – perfect pop song. Can’t believe it wasn’t a single.
8. The Ground Beneath Her Feet
9. Summer Rain – Not a great song, but this album needs it.
10. New York – One of my U2 favorites
11. Stateless – Perfect song leading into Walk On
12. Walk On – Single Version is a great album closer

This is the best track list that I can come up with and I don’t think that it is as good as the one that the band picked. Sure, I like the songs better, but ATYCLB has a unique resonance about it lyrically and musically that makes each song important. That is not to say that I like each song – I don’t. But I think all are vital in the context of the album (with the exception of Wild Honey. They should have chosen Flower Child instead because the lyrics fit the album better. I love WH though.)

The argument that ATYCLB is inferior musically is a sham. Is it a “pop” album? Without question, but that in no way detracts from its quality. For those of us who listen to music with a different tilt (Radiohead, Kent, etc.), it isn’t the album we wanted, but I still maintain that the single hardest thing to do in music is to write a great hook and melody. ATYCLB is full of great melodies and hooks.

I think it is reasonable to say that you don’t like the album. But to argue that the songs lack quality show a lack of understanding of the music.
 
Levitate is inferior to anything on the album. It was deemed a B-side and unusable for ATYCLB and HTDAAB, so a B-side it should remain.

Stateless could possibly replace Peace on Earth, although with better production Peace on Earth could have been much better.

The Ground Beneath Her Feet is one of my favorite U2 songs, but it shouldn't have been on the album(I know it was the bonus track in some countries). I think the fact that the lyrics weren't written by U2 is reason enough, and probably is one of the reasons they decided not to use it. As far as I know of, U2 has never just taken someone elses lyrics for an album song outside of the R&H songs that Bono co-wrote with Dylan..ect.

Summer Rain...I'm pretty much indifferent to it. I'm thinking about it and I don't know if U2 could really afford to have a more mellow song on the album.

Replace Wild Honey with Flower Child? Not a chance! This is one song that is unfairly bashed on U2 forums, but from experience I with my non-u2 fan friends, even they love this song. Flower Child is a great song, but it's just too long for that sort of light hearted song. There was a reason it was deemed a b-side, and I agree with U2 here also.

Cut IALW and Grace from the album?! Grace is a beautiful closer, something different from what U2 has ever done. In a Little While could have been huge if it were released as a single.

Basically, I think your new tracklisting destroys the heart and soul of the whole album--you want to make it into a totally different beast.
 
Re: Re: Re: Perfect ATYCLB... and a comment/message to...

bathiu said:


oh, great... you mentioned Pop again... and again you're offending people making up some quotes so that everyone that like Pop has to be ashamed of it... well, I'm used to see that in your posts, so... /sarcasm/"keep up the good work"/sarcasm/


I was using POP as an example of extremist 90's U2 fans. Those are not made up, by the way, these quotes all apeared in this board.
I NEVER said anyone has to be ashamed of liking POP, unlike what YOU are obviously trying to do with people who like ATYCLB. Do not put words in my mouth.


I didn't know we have the alpha and omega of what other people think...
Or were you making a research or a global poll or something...
Simple facts here: U2 fans are not in groups like 80s and 90s, U2 has 5 great albums from the 80's (and R&H) and 3 great albums from the 90s.
How can you say that someone can be a fan of one decade and not a fan of the other is beyond me... but it is something totaly diferent to like the 80s and the 90s and hate this mutant that was realeased in 2000... It's like 80's album trying to sound like being from the 90's... sick!
No matter how good the melodies are, if I can't stand the sound of the songs... and unfortunetly not every song was played live... I wont like the album...

Hardly alpha and omega. But the fact is most people here liked and continue to like ATYCLB. If you went outside the internet to ask 80's fans, it'd get way more approval than it does here.

I can, because there are two very different U2 decades: yes, some fans like both. But there are also fans who prefer the 80's and fans who prefer the 90's. It is clear which decade this board prefers.
:lol: Mutant? One more proof you have a real problem with ATYCLB. It doesn't sound like the 80's or 90's.
What does how many songs are played live to do with how much you like an album?!?




Many people give their honest and true opinions with deep analisis of why ATYCLB is one of U2's worst albums... and what you're doing? /quote/"You blind Pop-lovers/worshippers"... very creative I must say... and BTW this "minority" is growing.
And like I said only because album sold 3 mln copies more, doesn't mean there are 3 mlns new fans, or that all of them "love" the album and not bought it accidentaly (in ex. because it was hip to do).

NOT TRUE. I have yet to see an analisis why ATYCLB is that bad, all I see is hate for that album. Once again, who has problems?

Yes, worshippers because they can't give an honest, fair, unbiased opinion on ATYCLB - YOU added the word blind. Stop putting words in my mouth. Next time this happens, I'm reporting you to a mod.

Just because 3 more millions bought the album does not mean those people bought it because it was hip to do (and even if they did, that is not important. the question is they liked it). And it most definitely does not mean 3 millions hated it.



:huh: ...you mentioned something about "blind follower"?... No I wont say that... just that I totaly disagree with you.
Levitate, Flower Child, Stateless And GBHF and SM are better that half of the album, sorry.
Yes, POE, Grace, WH and IALW are b-side material in U2 standards... and if you can't see that even the biggest U2000 lovers have problems with those 4 songs than realy... "blind follower" is a good name.

OK, I asked you not to put words in my mouth...

Nope, Flower child, Levitate and Summer rain are not better than ATYCLB, and it was right they did not make the album. GBHF and Stateless, again, do not fit on the album.
No, those songs are not Bsides. Wild honey and IALW fit perfect to the pop album U2 were going for.Grace fits as a closer and POE belongs on ATYCLB.

The only one blind here is you. I will put you on my ignore list now so don't bother replying.

BTW the link between POP and ATYCLB was Sweetest thing, new version, Ground beneath her feet and Stateless.


Click to expand...
 
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1. Beautiful Day
2. Stuck In A Moment - the acoustic version
3. Elevation
4. Summer Rain
5. Kite - unchenged - the only thing done right on the real album
6. In a little While
7. New York
8. The Ground Beneath Her feet - because it's a "classic" and it's a shame it was wasted for a soundtrack **Ditto!!!
9. When I look At The World
10. Peace on earth
11. Walk on (one of the sinle version!)
 
Can we remember please that everyone has an OPINION.. and try not to make statements like "___ this song ___ is better than _____ this song ____" The majority of you in this thread are doing that rather than maybe saying "I FEEL THAT ___ this song___ is better than .. " etc.. That's what causes the arguments, in my opinion. Too many people that think their way is the right way. If you dont like a certain album for gods sake stay out of the thread that is praising it.. and vice versa.. you wont have anything to contribute by saying you dont like it or it sucks if the thread is an appreciation thread or praise thread. Go find a thread bashing it and voice your opinion there. God knows there's plenty of them around.
 
in my honest opinion all of you lack knowledge of music to be warranted an opinion on it
I could be wrong of course, but I'll stick by this for now

I am saddened to say that Jick made the most sense in this thread

I will now go and weep
 
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