xaviMF22
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Mrs. Garrison said:
please tell me you're joking
yes their hairstyle is to blame for the suckiness of the album
I Hate Bono and Larry
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please tell me you're joking
yes their hairstyle is to blame for the suckiness of the album
U2Man
ONE love, blood, life
the quality of radiohead albums declined when ed started to grow his hair long, so there's definitely some truth to this kind of theory.
good news is: ed has cut his hair again, getting ready for august 6.
good news is: ed has cut his hair again, getting ready for august 6.
fandangamoq
Acrobat
then how do you explain The Unforgettable Fire. Arguably the WORST hair era, and arguably (very arguably) the best musical era
~A.j.~
~A.j.~
Mrs. Garrison
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
id say the 90's balance that out.
phillyfan26
Blue Crack Supplier
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xaviMF22 said:
please tell me you're joking
yes their hairstyle is to blame for the suckiness of the album
I hope so too.
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
fandangamoq said:
Don't you trash Bono's Irish Power Fluff Mullet.
That thing was the greatest mullet ever.
So let me see if I've got this straight: Carrots have been holding U2 back since 4/4 of the band got scared that Pop wasn't finished. Is that right?
By the way, on a completely unrelated and serious note, I officially apologize to Axver for once calling him "pompous" (it was during one of those posting fights with some guy named Pero, whose lack of command of the English language coupled with his vitriol made his posts unintentionally hilarious!)
Anyway, Axver knows his shit and seems pretty level headed.
By the way, on a completely unrelated and serious note, I officially apologize to Axver for once calling him "pompous" (it was during one of those posting fights with some guy named Pero, whose lack of command of the English language coupled with his vitriol made his posts unintentionally hilarious!)
Anyway, Axver knows his shit and seems pretty level headed.
GibsonGirl said:
Actually, there's three. I made a mistake in my post. Now, I haven't actually listened to any of these songs in a while, so I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly:
- Drowning Man is in 2/4.
- I was under the impression it was Love Is Blindness, not Acrobat, that's not in 4/4. Rather, it's 6/8.
- Window In The Skies is in ... shit, 7/4? I think that's what Bono said in an interview I read. I've played the song all of five or six times.
thrillme
Refugee
Isn't WITS in 6/8?
Larry can't introduce any diversity if the songs are all written in 4/4, or 2/4. Don't blame the drummer, blame the composer(s)! [/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's not fair to blame Larry for that, unless he's known to be the one who doesn't wish to play in other time signatures.
Isn't Drowning man in 5/8 or was Bono mistaken, which is possible.
Don't all of them have to play in the same time signature?
I know time signatures can switch within the same song, but can the drummer play in one time signature, the bass play in another, with any other members playing something else?
What if it's Edge who doesn't want to play in other time signatures? Or Bono, Adam? Well perhaps not Adam, from what I've heard from him as early as 1985, he said he was kinda bored playing 4/4 bass. It's what works for their band though, so he plays in it. There was also something Bono said, implying Adam would like to play in a different time signature for a change.
From what I've been told, Adam can play much more complicated parts, but his skill is "deep in the music rather than flashy on top." His bass teacher claims "I'd give him a monster exercise one week, and he'd have it perfectly the next."
I'd be curious to see them try and play with different instruments. Larry could probably play a xylophone. Adam could play guitar, Edge can play the banjo
Bono learned piano, hmm. Then Adam could play a bass part that can get looped in.
I saw Modest Mouse live recently, an accordian, an upright sorta bass, 2 drummers, and yup a banjo. Pretty cool! Switch roles if it works. Mix it up a bit.
Larry can't introduce any diversity if the songs are all written in 4/4, or 2/4. Don't blame the drummer, blame the composer(s)! [/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's not fair to blame Larry for that, unless he's known to be the one who doesn't wish to play in other time signatures.
Isn't Drowning man in 5/8 or was Bono mistaken, which is possible.
Don't all of them have to play in the same time signature?
I know time signatures can switch within the same song, but can the drummer play in one time signature, the bass play in another, with any other members playing something else?
What if it's Edge who doesn't want to play in other time signatures? Or Bono, Adam? Well perhaps not Adam, from what I've heard from him as early as 1985, he said he was kinda bored playing 4/4 bass. It's what works for their band though, so he plays in it. There was also something Bono said, implying Adam would like to play in a different time signature for a change.
From what I've been told, Adam can play much more complicated parts, but his skill is "deep in the music rather than flashy on top." His bass teacher claims "I'd give him a monster exercise one week, and he'd have it perfectly the next."
I'd be curious to see them try and play with different instruments. Larry could probably play a xylophone. Adam could play guitar, Edge can play the banjo
Bono learned piano, hmm. Then Adam could play a bass part that can get looped in. I saw Modest Mouse live recently, an accordian, an upright sorta bass, 2 drummers, and yup a banjo. Pretty cool! Switch roles if it works. Mix it up a bit.
cobl04
45:33
I've never cared for time signatures. If the song sounds good, it sounds good. I'm not going to start screwing up my face in disgust when the new album comes out and a majority or all of it is in 4/4 time. I can't recognise the difference anyway. 
"Ugh... 4/4 time again? how" boring, lame and pathetic. The song is magnificent, but it's in 4/4.
Anyone else remember the days when this was a 'fan' forum? These threads get scary
"Ugh... 4/4 time again? how" boring, lame and pathetic. The song is magnificent, but it's in 4/4.
Anyone else remember the days when this was a 'fan' forum? These threads get scary
COBL_04 said:I've never cared for time signatures. If the song sounds good, it sounds good. I'm not going to start screwing up my face in disgust when the new album comes out and a majority or all of it is in 4/4 time. I can't recognise the difference anyway.
"Ugh... 4/4 time again? how" boring, lame and pathetic. The song is magnificent, but it's in 4/4.
Well done, you missed the point entirely. I mean, for goodness' sake, I even said that I don't care for snobby anti-4/4 attitudes or people who turn up their nose at songs on the basis of time signatures.
What I and others have argued is that diversity is important, and while 4/4 is a good and useful time signature that serves many songs very well, you can't stick to it and it alone. As an example, pizza may be a wonderful meal, but you'd get pretty fucking sick of it if it was all you ate for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for a month or two. Same goes for 4/4. In a 30 year career, I shouldn't be able to count the amount of songs entirely not in 4/4 on one hand with a finger free to flip the bird at Larry.
So while there is nothing inherently wrong with 4/4, or with it being used a majority of the time, using it (for all intents and purposes) exclusively is pretty lame and boring.
OP
OP
Screwtape2
Blue Crack Addict
Axver said:
This might be the single greatest quote in the history of Interference.
silvrlvr said:
WITS is 6/8 as is Acrobat, I believe. I find Edge (and Bono?) writing in 4/4 most of the time more believable than Larry laying down amazing beats, then crossing his arms and let everyone adapt to him.
4/4 was fine enough on the 80's albums, including the mighty LarryOctober.
U2Man
ONE love, blood, life
if all u2's songs are in 4/4, blame edge, and partly bono.
FitzChivalry
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I would consider myself a huge U2 fan, but I don't know nearly as much as some on here.
Having said that, I think it's a pretty established fact that the 4 members of U2 are not considered technically great or proficient musicians or composers. Edge has probably enjoyed the most praise and acknowledgement for his skill, among those in the know, but that still doesn't make him or U2 proficient musicians.
But here we all are, the gazillion of us, logging in every day, every week, every other week. And why? Because those 4 guys have managed to create something out of, perhaps not nothing, but surely not as much as others. And "those 4" includes Larry.
So if Screwtape and Ax and a few others want to hate on Larry, I say fine. Their "hate" does seem to be confined to particular time periods, and there is appreciation for some of his work. (Though I'm not sure I would keep logging into a fansite for a band whose music I didn't like anymore and found boring, but that's just me. You will never find me on a Coldplay site; talk about a boring drummer!) Personally, Larry's playing was never my big draw to U2. For me it's always been Edge's "bells" and Bono's voice, and when Larry or Adam hit it out of the park---well, that's just an added bonus.
There has been some insightful and illuminating discussion, logically reasoned and buttressed by facts. And there has been some emotional, vague, opinionated and unsubstantiated argument as well. I would say that is Interference; love it or leave it.
Having said that, I think it's a pretty established fact that the 4 members of U2 are not considered technically great or proficient musicians or composers. Edge has probably enjoyed the most praise and acknowledgement for his skill, among those in the know, but that still doesn't make him or U2 proficient musicians.
But here we all are, the gazillion of us, logging in every day, every week, every other week. And why? Because those 4 guys have managed to create something out of, perhaps not nothing, but surely not as much as others. And "those 4" includes Larry.
So if Screwtape and Ax and a few others want to hate on Larry, I say fine. Their "hate" does seem to be confined to particular time periods, and there is appreciation for some of his work. (Though I'm not sure I would keep logging into a fansite for a band whose music I didn't like anymore and found boring, but that's just me. You will never find me on a Coldplay site; talk about a boring drummer!) Personally, Larry's playing was never my big draw to U2. For me it's always been Edge's "bells" and Bono's voice, and when Larry or Adam hit it out of the park---well, that's just an added bonus.
There has been some insightful and illuminating discussion, logically reasoned and buttressed by facts. And there has been some emotional, vague, opinionated and unsubstantiated argument as well. I would say that is Interference; love it or leave it.
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Axver said:
The issue is not when October came out, the issue is Larry (apparently over)using 4/4. Virtually all of U2 songs are written in 4/4 (aka the most common time signature in pop music), including the 80's and including apparently Larry's best album October. (let's leave out the question when Larry was put in charge of starting the songs for the band, since it's fair to assume Bono and Edge do most of the work musically, so Larry really only adapts to them)
So you can see the obvious question: why was 4/4 okay for the first 10 years of their career but it stopped being okay since 1990? Just because he was younger then? Just because he put out the one drum solo? It's still all 4/4, whether it sounds more fancy or not.
This reminds me of the "why doesn't Edge solo/play more complex stuff?" debate. It has the same answer, too.
bayou12780
War Child
GibsonGirl said:
Yes, the song is Chances Away off the Achtung Baby working tapes. Actually, I think the quote is:
Bono: "Adam go around so you can hear the drums. You know the chords by now. Same thing."
bayou12780
War Child
This is new on u2.com - comments from each of them on JT. Here is an insightful comment from Larry about improv...
LARRY: 'Red Hill Mining Town' is one of the lost songs. It was overproduced and under-written, one of those great ideas that never quite got there. Bono had a very clear idea about how he wanted it to sound but I don't think anyone was quite sure where he was going with it. What we ended up with was neither one thing nor the other. During improvisation things happened that were amazing but because of a lack of confidence in our ability to repeat the idea, we tended to hang on very tightly and perhaps not push forward as much as we should have. So sometimes we ended up with a bunch of great ideas as opposed to a fully developed song. In my view, that's part of the genius of U2 but it can also be part of the problem with our songwriting.
LARRY: 'Red Hill Mining Town' is one of the lost songs. It was overproduced and under-written, one of those great ideas that never quite got there. Bono had a very clear idea about how he wanted it to sound but I don't think anyone was quite sure where he was going with it. What we ended up with was neither one thing nor the other. During improvisation things happened that were amazing but because of a lack of confidence in our ability to repeat the idea, we tended to hang on very tightly and perhaps not push forward as much as we should have. So sometimes we ended up with a bunch of great ideas as opposed to a fully developed song. In my view, that's part of the genius of U2 but it can also be part of the problem with our songwriting.
silvrlvr
Refugee
["During improvisation things happened that were amazing but because of a lack of confidence in our ability to repeat the idea, we tended to hang on very tightly and perhaps not push forward as much as we should have. So sometimes we ended up with a bunch of great ideas as opposed to a fully developed song. In my view, that's part of the genius of U2 but it can also be part of the problem with our songwriting. [/B][/QUOTE]
a) there should be no lack of confidence in their ability to repeat an idea. That's what takes are for. Just play it back, and pay attention.
b)if they end up with a bunch of great ideas instead of songs, they aren't fully developing the great ideas. If the band doesn't have the ability to do that amongst themselves, they have to find producers who can do that.
I wonder if this is a case of artists who have done this so long that they've developed habits -- like writing in minor keys, writing in 4/4, etc. -- that they themselves can't break. Then, it takes a Rick Rubin to get them to try a different time measure and to think about the song rather than just string it together and play it.
a) there should be no lack of confidence in their ability to repeat an idea. That's what takes are for. Just play it back, and pay attention.
b)if they end up with a bunch of great ideas instead of songs, they aren't fully developing the great ideas. If the band doesn't have the ability to do that amongst themselves, they have to find producers who can do that.
I wonder if this is a case of artists who have done this so long that they've developed habits -- like writing in minor keys, writing in 4/4, etc. -- that they themselves can't break. Then, it takes a Rick Rubin to get them to try a different time measure and to think about the song rather than just string it together and play it.
U2 have had a 30 year career because the songs sound good not because of the signature they are played in. If its not broken dont fix it even though some would possibly argue that it is. But thats the way it is. If you want to play something other then 4/4 pick up an interment and play it. Let U2 play what they want.
shart1780
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Those of you who are Larry fans realize that he is a really crappy musician, don't you?
It almost seems as if most of you haven't heard very much good rock music, because if you had it seems like you'd know how amazing a good drum player can be. Listen to The Who or Led Zeppelin (a couple mainstream bands with great drummers) and actually listen to those drums. Then listen to a song like 21st Century Schizoid Man by King Crimson. You'll be asking yourself "how can a human being even drum like that?". It's incredible, really. In a band with a great drum player the music becomes so much more alive.
Same with the bass. Adam's bass playing is... well, bad. It's never really anything to pay attention to because it's so simple and boring. Listen to Roundabout by Yes or Around the World by The Red Hot Chili Peppers to hear how great bass can be and how it can actually add to a song. I think Larry and Adam seem like cool, nice guys, and I like them in the band simply because I'm use to them, but if a couple other nice cool guys with musical talent were there from the beginning instead, would I be less satisfied? No way. U2 akes some great music, but by no means is it great because of the musicianship. Sometimes I almost feel like I'm listening to half a band. The more you listen to different types of music the more you realize that U2's rhythm section is basically inadequate.
The Edge is probably the only guy from the band I don't have a beef with. I don't mind Adam too much because, while it would be great to have an awesome bass player, bass is probably the instrument I pay attention to the least.
Larry has the "cool" factor going on, but other than that I don't see any way in which he adds to the band. His musicianship is inadequate and he insists on holding the band back musically. If 20 years in the future we're reading about a band member leaving it will most likely be Larry because the band couldn't handle him anymore. The fact that any high schooler with adequate drumming capability could play Larry's music isn't a great thing.
Bono is just Bono, everyone knows him. At times I like him and at times I can't stand him. He's the kind of guy who truly likes to do good but always needs to bask in the glory of his own works, letting everyone know what he's done. I don't really respect that. Plus his lyrics kinda suck now.
It almost seems as if most of you haven't heard very much good rock music, because if you had it seems like you'd know how amazing a good drum player can be. Listen to The Who or Led Zeppelin (a couple mainstream bands with great drummers) and actually listen to those drums. Then listen to a song like 21st Century Schizoid Man by King Crimson. You'll be asking yourself "how can a human being even drum like that?". It's incredible, really. In a band with a great drum player the music becomes so much more alive.
Same with the bass. Adam's bass playing is... well, bad. It's never really anything to pay attention to because it's so simple and boring. Listen to Roundabout by Yes or Around the World by The Red Hot Chili Peppers to hear how great bass can be and how it can actually add to a song. I think Larry and Adam seem like cool, nice guys, and I like them in the band simply because I'm use to them, but if a couple other nice cool guys with musical talent were there from the beginning instead, would I be less satisfied? No way. U2 akes some great music, but by no means is it great because of the musicianship. Sometimes I almost feel like I'm listening to half a band. The more you listen to different types of music the more you realize that U2's rhythm section is basically inadequate.
The Edge is probably the only guy from the band I don't have a beef with. I don't mind Adam too much because, while it would be great to have an awesome bass player, bass is probably the instrument I pay attention to the least.
Larry has the "cool" factor going on, but other than that I don't see any way in which he adds to the band. His musicianship is inadequate and he insists on holding the band back musically. If 20 years in the future we're reading about a band member leaving it will most likely be Larry because the band couldn't handle him anymore. The fact that any high schooler with adequate drumming capability could play Larry's music isn't a great thing.
Bono is just Bono, everyone knows him. At times I like him and at times I can't stand him. He's the kind of guy who truly likes to do good but always needs to bask in the glory of his own works, letting everyone know what he's done. I don't really respect that. Plus his lyrics kinda suck now.
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U2girl said:
Actually, WITS is 4/4, as is Acrobat.
1.........2..........3............4..............
.................the shackles are undone
1..................2....................3...............4.....
........Don't believe what you hear................
Zoots
Blue Crack Supplier
This thread would have probably turned out differently had there been no H in the title.
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
Zootlesque said:
Like that girl who shot Bono
Zoots
Blue Crack Supplier
bonoishot 
thrillme
Refugee
shart1780 said:
Whether Adam is a good or bad bassist in entirely subjective, as with any musician. To you, he's a bad bass player, but there's plenty of people who play bass and think he's excellent.
I've read of some saying Flea is sloppy at times.
If Adam is so bad, why is Flea playing bass lines on some songs that have the style and feel of what Adam would play. To describe some of Flea's basslines on the past few albums as "Clayton-esque" as I've seen, does that mean Flea is becoming a bad bassist by playing like one?
IMO those who actually play the instrument, who have a passion for it to various degrees, (and you admit you don't really notice the bass,) I'd take more stock in their assessments of Adam's playing than someone who barely notices it in the first place. Same with the drums, I'd ask people who actually play in drums in a working, gigging bands, what they think of Larry. Some bassists struggle with drummers who overplay, who don't mesh with them.
Various opinions of Adam as a bass player, from bass players.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318219
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218553
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3311
good or bad drummers
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296510
These aren't hardcore U2 fans, so it's not like you can call them mindless sheep who think U2 do no wrong.
The more mature musicians play to the song I'm told. Rather than show off their technique, they play what suits the song, that's the most important part in music, not the technique or lack thereof.
GibsonGirl
ONE love, blood, life
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Diemen said:
I disagree. Acrobat is definitely not 4/4. You have to take riffs and drum beats into account when you judge time signatures, not the vocals. Acrobat is 12/8. Go to about 0:30 in the song and listen to the beat. Starting from the beginning of that 30 second mark, you hear the start of the drum pattern that Larry plays throughout most of the song, ending with the three snares. The third snare ends on the 12th beat before Larry repeats the pattern again, making it 12/8.
I'm actually not so sure about Window In The Skies, now that you mention it. I always just assumed Bono knew what he was talking about when he said it was in 6/8 and didn't bother with it any further. Trusting a single word Bono says is the biggest mistake one can make as a U2 fan. You can sort of make an argument for the 6/8 signature in the beginning if you count the beat rather quickly. However, when the drums come in during the chorus, they seem to suggest 4/4. Perhaps there are varying time signatures in this one, as there are in Streets? It's a bit difficult to judge, for me at any rate. In Streets it's a little easier to pick out, as there's a clear 6 beat riff playing through the intro.
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corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
I'm with GibsonGirl on Acrobat. It's definitely got that "waltz" feel, with the ONE-two-three ONE-two-three thing going on. But as far as a time signature go, it's hard to say. It could be a 12/8, but it could also be a fast 3/4.
Window In the Skies could be a 3/4 (or a 12/8) as well, as you can take each of those big beats and feel the ONE-two-three ONE-two-three.
Or it's just a 4/4 with a nonstop triplet feel ... which honestly just exhausts me just thinking about it.
Window In the Skies could be a 3/4 (or a 12/8) as well, as you can take each of those big beats and feel the ONE-two-three ONE-two-three.
Or it's just a 4/4 with a nonstop triplet feel ... which honestly just exhausts me just thinking about it.
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