Achtung Baby is, at once, their finest work and their most disappointing. As good as this record is—and it's astonishingly good—it could've been so much better with a little structural clarity given to songs like Wild Horses, Ultraviolet and a few others.
How many U2 albums do you feel are truly "complete"?
- Thread starter LemonMelon
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Rob33
Rock n' Roll Doggie
I think JT is U2's most polished work. From beginning to end, it's simply brilliant. There are no weak songs on Joshua Tree- it begins and ends with perfection. And the order makes sense too...I personally love the fact that Trip comes after IGC. Everything makes sense to me on this album. I don't think any other U2 record matches it. So, in terms of completeness, I'd say Joshua Tree. 
phillyfan26
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Boy
A great debut that needs very little touching up. Probably would have been better with 11 O'Clock Tick Tock, but at that point they hadn't gotten that song down pat either. Hard to complain about this record.
October
Strike Is That All? completely, and edit the tracklisting some. There weren't many alternative B-sides, but what was there could have been better with some changes.
War
Strike Red Light and the female vocals on Surrender. Add Treasure. Edit some of the tracklisting. Again, not a bad record.
The Unforgettable Fire
Strike 4th of July, Elvis Presley and America, and MLK. Add The Three Sunrises, Bass Trap, Sixty Seconds in Kingdom Come, Boomerang II, and Love Comes Tumbling. Edit the tracklisting. This was a great record, but could have easily been there best had they not put so many greats on the B-sides.
The Joshua Tree
Strike Trip Through Your Wires. Add Luminous Times and Spanish Eyes. Make minor edits to the tracklisting.
Rattle and Hum
Strike the live songs entirely. Re-name the album. Record a U2 version of She's a Mystery to Me. Make Hawkmoon 269 shorter, like the live version.
Achtung Baby
Strike So Cruel and Tryin' to Throw Your Arms Around the World. Add Alex Descends into Hell for a Bottle of Milk. Edit the tracklisting. Entirely re-do the horribly flawed production.
Zooropa
Make Numb a one-off single on its own, not on the album. Strike Babyface. Re-record Dirty Day and DGPFYCC.
Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1
Strike Elvis Ate America.
Pop
Strike If God Will Send His Angels and The Playboy Mansion. Add North and South of the River and Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me. Re-record everything but Do You Feel Loved, Staring at the Sun, and Wake Up Dead Man. Edit the tracklisting.
All That You Can't Leave Behind
Strike Peace on Earth and Wild Honey. Add The Ground Beneath Her Feet. Re-record Stuck in a Moment (and title it as such) and Elevation.
How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb
SYCMIOYO and Electrical Storm switch places in U2's discography, as the former was recorded in some form in 2002. Re-record City of Blinding Lights and Yahweh. Add Fast Cars. Swap Vertigo for Native Son. Re-title Love and Peace or Else. Write new lyrics for All Because of You. Edit the tracklisting. Edit out the clipping on Crumbs from Your Table.
A great debut that needs very little touching up. Probably would have been better with 11 O'Clock Tick Tock, but at that point they hadn't gotten that song down pat either. Hard to complain about this record.
October
Strike Is That All? completely, and edit the tracklisting some. There weren't many alternative B-sides, but what was there could have been better with some changes.
War
Strike Red Light and the female vocals on Surrender. Add Treasure. Edit some of the tracklisting. Again, not a bad record.
The Unforgettable Fire
Strike 4th of July, Elvis Presley and America, and MLK. Add The Three Sunrises, Bass Trap, Sixty Seconds in Kingdom Come, Boomerang II, and Love Comes Tumbling. Edit the tracklisting. This was a great record, but could have easily been there best had they not put so many greats on the B-sides.
The Joshua Tree
Strike Trip Through Your Wires. Add Luminous Times and Spanish Eyes. Make minor edits to the tracklisting.
Rattle and Hum
Strike the live songs entirely. Re-name the album. Record a U2 version of She's a Mystery to Me. Make Hawkmoon 269 shorter, like the live version.
Achtung Baby
Strike So Cruel and Tryin' to Throw Your Arms Around the World. Add Alex Descends into Hell for a Bottle of Milk. Edit the tracklisting. Entirely re-do the horribly flawed production.
Zooropa
Make Numb a one-off single on its own, not on the album. Strike Babyface. Re-record Dirty Day and DGPFYCC.
Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1
Strike Elvis Ate America.
Pop
Strike If God Will Send His Angels and The Playboy Mansion. Add North and South of the River and Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me. Re-record everything but Do You Feel Loved, Staring at the Sun, and Wake Up Dead Man. Edit the tracklisting.
All That You Can't Leave Behind
Strike Peace on Earth and Wild Honey. Add The Ground Beneath Her Feet. Re-record Stuck in a Moment (and title it as such) and Elevation.
How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb
SYCMIOYO and Electrical Storm switch places in U2's discography, as the former was recorded in some form in 2002. Re-record City of Blinding Lights and Yahweh. Add Fast Cars. Swap Vertigo for Native Son. Re-title Love and Peace or Else. Write new lyrics for All Because of You. Edit the tracklisting. Edit out the clipping on Crumbs from Your Table.
Matthew_Page2000
War Child
Yeah, but sometimes you need to dress the songs differently just
to get people to listen to them.
It's easy to forget now but a huge part of AB's success was that it
didn't sound like U2.
Matthew_Page2000
War Child
Add Xanax and Wine, not Fast Cars. Vertigo is much better than Native Son. No need for new lyrics for All Because of You. They already exist in
the perfect alternative version. Rerecording Crumbs would be a good idea.
But it's the hideous procution that ruins this album. Great songs recorded at
a deafening level. It just sounds awful and I don't even have an ear for that
sort of thing. Listening to this album must be excruciating for audio-philes.
phillyfan26
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That's like saying, "It sounds poor, yes, but it's OK because they wanted it that way."
That whole post makes absolutely no sense. The sound would have still been new for U2 if you put Edge's guitar into the mix, just of a higher quality.
phillyfan26
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Think you could re-format this post? All of your post is mixed in with my post that you quoted. Thus, I can't cite and address the stuff you said.
rihannsu
Refugee
You are still missing my point. U2 does not just add crap to songs after they are written in order to juice them up. They consider these things to be part of the creation of the song itself. All of these effects that you all claim are bad production are things the band has said were done deliberately to create a certain mood or atmosphere that is part of the song and affects the meaning or the effect of the song. The AB songs don't come across nearly as dark in live performance precisely because a lot of the things contributing to the mood of the songs were things that didn't translate very well live. U2's song writing process makes it extremely difficult to seperate production from creation of the song. The studio is as much an instrument in their eyes as any of the instruments they play.
Dana
phillyfan26
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...So? It still sounds terrible. It wouldn't reduce the innovation of the album to have Edge's guitar more audible.
Salome
you are what you is
not the innovation, no
but it would affect the mood of the music
I would be very surprised if the band didnt have the guitars more up in the mix at some point during the process of recording/mixing AB
I'm not sure but it must have been a majority decision that it didn't work
I have no problem anyone stating that any of the band's albums sound bad
but I think it's a huge mistake to assume that there's this easy available solution that the band + circle of people involved with recording/mixing somehow completely missed
especially post War
phillyfan26
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I'm not saying they completely missed it or that it wasn't a majority decision. How do you possibly take that out of my post?
I'm saying it was a bad decision. Plain and simple.
Salome
you are what you is
and you seem to miss the point of my post
which is that the band probably did try mixing the guitars more in the front of the mix
so they heard it and didn't like it
you didn't hear it and decide it was a shite decision anyway
which you're entitled to
but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me
which is that the band probably did try mixing the guitars more in the front of the mix
so they heard it and didn't like it
you didn't hear it and decide it was a shite decision anyway
which you're entitled to
but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me
phillyfan26
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I've heard the live versions, which are similar, just with less muddling. I much prefer them. I think it would have sounded very good in the studio, too, based on having heard a lot of albums and a lot of techniques, including many from U2. I don't think it's at all a reach.
OP
OP
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Again, this is largely subjective. Therefore, regardless of their intention, I do not find that Achtung Baby's production is pleasing to my ear and, furthermore, I don't think it's terribly innovative. I maintain that the songs should be what challenges listeners, not the fact that the production makes the album sound like mush.
I don't think this argument is going anywhere, since some of us think the band's judgment is best, and some of us hate what we're hearing regardless.
I don't think this argument is going anywhere, since some of us think the band's judgment is best, and some of us hate what we're hearing regardless.
Salome
you are what you is
I'd like to stress again that I don't believe the band's judgement to be best and that they can do no wrong
I don't think the albums are perfect
but some people are offering simple solutions here
my point is that if it was that simple they would have done it
they're not perfect
but they aren't idiots either
rihannsu
Refugee
I'm just saying that considering both the overwhelming critical and commercial success calling this a bad decision just because you don't like it is a bit much. No artist is ever going to be able to make everyone happy but just because some people don't like the direction they took or the sound they went for doesn't make it a bad decision. But the main point I was trying to make is that given the way U2 writes you can't definitively separate production from creation of the song as they themselves don't consider it a separate process so in actuality if you don't like the production on AB you don't like the band's vision of the song. It is also useless comparing live to studio versions because again the band's approach to the live performance is totally separate to the album. They feel no obligation to approach the song the same way live because they consider it a different expression. I've always seen U2 songs as much more fluid than most other music. They seem to see their songs as a way to communicate feelings and the songs become like a language with the different versions being like different dialects or vernacular.
It's not that I have a problem with you not liking it just the idea that you are declaring it a mistake on their part.
Dana
OP
OP
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
It's not about intelligence, it's about taste. I don't feel they made the best choice available, but it's not up to me, is it?
I also don't have to like it. And it's not stupid of me to dislike it, just as it wasn't a stupid decision on their part.
SamuelSmeloc
War Child
Salome
you are what you is
ah, if the point is all about taste then I agree with you 100%
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Hindsight's always going to be 20/20, so it's easier to go back now and assess their careers. Like others, I think most of U2's material soars live. That doesn't make their studio-recorded counterparts shit by comparison, just different, that's all. All of what follows is personal preference, not the definitive word on everything, please keep that in mind:
Boy
There's not much I'd change here. Maybe add "11 O'Clock Tick Tock" in there somewhere, but it's as solid of a debut as you'll ever find from any band. This is easily my most anticipated remaster of the 3 about to be released.
October
I've always had a soft spot for this album. Sure, it's not what it could've been due to the missing lyrics and seemingly rushed recording process, but they just wanted to get a new album out to retain interest. That being said, I don't know what to add here, but I would get rid of "Is That All?" ("The Cry" in disguise) and re-arrange the order a bit.
War
Again, not much I'd add here either. Cut out "Red Light" and maybe "The Refugee" (to me, it always sounded more akin to something like "The Cry" and would work better as an intro to another rocking song, like "Like a Song..." for instance). I'd also use the extended version of "Seconds" here. Switch "A Celebration" with "Two Hearts Beat as One" and make the latter a one-off single. Production-wise, there's not much I'd improve here.
The Unforgettable Fire
As it stands now, it's one of my favorite U2 albums, but like others have said, I wish a few more tracks could've been included (Three Sunrises, Love Comes Tumbling, Boomerang II, Bass Trap). I'd swap out "4th of July" in favor of "Bass Trap," actually. I wouldn't fix a thing production-wise, a remaster would really help this though. Here's how I'd have arranged the tracks though:
1. Bass Trap
2. The Three Sunrises
3. Pride
4. Wire
5. Indian Summer Sky
6. Boomerang II
7. The Unforgettable Fire
8. MLK
9. Bad
10. Promenade
11. Love Comes Tumbling
12. Elvis Presley and America
13. A Sort of Homecoming
The Joshua Tree
My 2nd-favorite U2 album after Achtung Baby - I wouldn't change much about this album, except cut "Trip Through Your Wires" in favor of one of the awesome bonus tracks that came out recently. This tracklisting here is for shits-and-giggles, basically what I'd like if this came out as a double album as originally planned:
Luminous Times
1. Beautiful Ghost
2. Where the Streets Have No Name
3. In God's Country
4. Spanish Eyes
5. Rise Up
6. Desert of Our Love
7. I Still Haven't Found...
8. Red Hill Mining Town
9. Bullet the Blue Sky
10. Silver and Gold
11. Deep in the Heart
12. With or Without You
13. Luminous Times (Hold onto Love)
14. Running to Stand Still
15. Race Against Time
16. One Tree Hill
17. Exit
18. Mothers of the Disappeared
Rattle and Hum
Ugh. I'd have released the studio and live cuts separately or on different discs of the double album, not mixed together. Throw in some of the b-sides like "Everlasting Love" and "Dancing Barefoot" with the other studio material and you're solid.
Achtung Baby
My favorite U2 album by a country mile - the only thing I'd change here is production-related. I wish the guitars were brought up a little in the mix, the acoustic guitar was added to "Wild Horses," and a couple of the songs were made a bit louder ("Love is Blindness", "Wild Horses", and "Tryin' to Throw..."). To me, it's the closest they've gotten to making a perfect album.
Zooropa
Like The U.S.S Excelsior, this was a great experiment. I'd cut "Babyface" and "Some Days...", re-record "Dirty Day" (In its place, I'll use the Bitter Kiss Mix) and fix the order a bit. I always end up listening to it and the Passengers album together anyway, so I put together a combo mix for my own amusement:
Always Forever Now
1. Zooropa
2. Slug
3. Miss Sarajevo
4. Stay (Faraway, So Close!)
5. Always Forever Now
6. Daddy's Gonna Pay for Your Crashed Car
7. Numb
8. Dirty Day (Bitter Kiss Mix)
9. Lemon
10. Your Blue Room
11. The First Time
12. The Wanderer
Passengers
The songs I didn't use above would be released as an EP to hold off before the new album comes out. "Elvis Ate America" and "Ito Okashi" would not make it though, mainly because they suck.
Pop
All things considered, this is still a pretty cool album. Sure, it needed another month or two to gestate and most, if not all, of the songs were superior live, per usual, but it's still a good listen. I'd add "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me" and "North and South of the River", while "Wake Up Dead Man" is a good song, it's not really my cup of tea, that's why I don't include it. "Miami" is a nifty b-side at best:
Godzilla (one of the running titles of the album before they settled on Pop, I've always dug this title so yeah, here you go)
1. Mofo
2. Discotheque
3. Gone
4. Do You Feel Loved
5. The Playboy Mansion
6. If You Wear That Velvet Dress
7. Last Night on Earth
8. Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me
9. Staring at the Sun
10. If God Will Send His Angels (Single)
11. North and South of the River
12. Please (Single)
All That You Can't Leave Behind
It's a pop-oriented album, but still has a pair of "future classic" tracks ("Beautiful Day", "Walk On") to stand against their previous classics. I've always dug the laid back, R&B-influenced production here, and the use of samples in "In a Little While." Songs like "Wild Honey" and "Grace" are nice b-side material, but not fit for an album, methinks; "Elevation" would best be served as a soundtrack song or stand-alone single, not in the context of the album. "Peace on Earth" would've been best as a pre-cursor to "Walk On," like the live performances. The original album is too single-heavy toward the top - the following mix puts the more light and acoustic songs toward the top (including "Sweetest Thing," which would've never been released before until now) while the second half concentrates on the ballads and Million Dollar Hotel tracks. "The Hands That Built America" takes the place of "New York" as the requisite song about America/NY, while being slightly more subtle about it:
Wild in My Heart (still iffy on the title, but it fits for now.)
1. Beautiful Day
2. In a Little While
3. Sweetest Thing (Single)
4. Summer Rain
5. Flower Child
6. Stuck in a Moment (Acoustic)
7. Kite
8. When I Look at the World
9. Stateless
10. The Ground Beneath Her Feet
11. The Hands That Built America (The Edit + 2.5 VariSpeed)
12. Peace on Earth / Walk On
Maybe the songs that were cut here could re-appear on a U2:7-esque EP.
How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb
Not only were most of the tracks over-produced (too long of a gestation period compared to Pop's short time), but they're all incredibly loud. The dynamic sound is lost and there's not much difference between the quietest and loudest moment of a song, which really bites. Other than production changes, I'd cut "Yahweh" and make the first verse and chorus "One Step Closer" the outro to "Sometimes..." (like the "Shine Like Stars" verse of "With or Without You", for instance). I'd include "Electrical Storm", "Fast Cars", "Smile", and "Mercy" to bulk up the album. This is still a singles-oriented album, more so than ATYCLB, which comes across as more complete by comparison, but it's making some chicken salad out of semi-chicken shit, at least by U2 standards:
One Step Closer
1. City of Blinding Lights
2. Vertigo
3. Crumbs from Your Table
4. Miracle Drug
5. Smile
6. Sometimes You Can't Make It on Your Own / One Step Closer
7. Love and Peace or Else
8. All Because of You (Alt. Version)
9. Fast Cars
10. A Man and a Woman
11. Original of the Species (Single)
12. Electrical Storm (William Orbit Mix)
13. Mercy
Phew, what do you guys think?
Boy
There's not much I'd change here. Maybe add "11 O'Clock Tick Tock" in there somewhere, but it's as solid of a debut as you'll ever find from any band. This is easily my most anticipated remaster of the 3 about to be released.
October
I've always had a soft spot for this album. Sure, it's not what it could've been due to the missing lyrics and seemingly rushed recording process, but they just wanted to get a new album out to retain interest. That being said, I don't know what to add here, but I would get rid of "Is That All?" ("The Cry" in disguise) and re-arrange the order a bit.
War
Again, not much I'd add here either. Cut out "Red Light" and maybe "The Refugee" (to me, it always sounded more akin to something like "The Cry" and would work better as an intro to another rocking song, like "Like a Song..." for instance). I'd also use the extended version of "Seconds" here. Switch "A Celebration" with "Two Hearts Beat as One" and make the latter a one-off single. Production-wise, there's not much I'd improve here.
The Unforgettable Fire
As it stands now, it's one of my favorite U2 albums, but like others have said, I wish a few more tracks could've been included (Three Sunrises, Love Comes Tumbling, Boomerang II, Bass Trap). I'd swap out "4th of July" in favor of "Bass Trap," actually. I wouldn't fix a thing production-wise, a remaster would really help this though. Here's how I'd have arranged the tracks though:
1. Bass Trap
2. The Three Sunrises
3. Pride
4. Wire
5. Indian Summer Sky
6. Boomerang II
7. The Unforgettable Fire
8. MLK
9. Bad
10. Promenade
11. Love Comes Tumbling
12. Elvis Presley and America
13. A Sort of Homecoming
The Joshua Tree
My 2nd-favorite U2 album after Achtung Baby - I wouldn't change much about this album, except cut "Trip Through Your Wires" in favor of one of the awesome bonus tracks that came out recently. This tracklisting here is for shits-and-giggles, basically what I'd like if this came out as a double album as originally planned:
Luminous Times
1. Beautiful Ghost
2. Where the Streets Have No Name
3. In God's Country
4. Spanish Eyes
5. Rise Up
6. Desert of Our Love
7. I Still Haven't Found...
8. Red Hill Mining Town
9. Bullet the Blue Sky
10. Silver and Gold
11. Deep in the Heart
12. With or Without You
13. Luminous Times (Hold onto Love)
14. Running to Stand Still
15. Race Against Time
16. One Tree Hill
17. Exit
18. Mothers of the Disappeared
Rattle and Hum
Ugh. I'd have released the studio and live cuts separately or on different discs of the double album, not mixed together. Throw in some of the b-sides like "Everlasting Love" and "Dancing Barefoot" with the other studio material and you're solid.
Achtung Baby
My favorite U2 album by a country mile - the only thing I'd change here is production-related. I wish the guitars were brought up a little in the mix, the acoustic guitar was added to "Wild Horses," and a couple of the songs were made a bit louder ("Love is Blindness", "Wild Horses", and "Tryin' to Throw..."). To me, it's the closest they've gotten to making a perfect album.
Zooropa
Like The U.S.S Excelsior, this was a great experiment. I'd cut "Babyface" and "Some Days...", re-record "Dirty Day" (In its place, I'll use the Bitter Kiss Mix) and fix the order a bit. I always end up listening to it and the Passengers album together anyway, so I put together a combo mix for my own amusement:
Always Forever Now
1. Zooropa
2. Slug
3. Miss Sarajevo
4. Stay (Faraway, So Close!)
5. Always Forever Now
6. Daddy's Gonna Pay for Your Crashed Car
7. Numb
8. Dirty Day (Bitter Kiss Mix)
9. Lemon
10. Your Blue Room
11. The First Time
12. The Wanderer
Passengers
The songs I didn't use above would be released as an EP to hold off before the new album comes out. "Elvis Ate America" and "Ito Okashi" would not make it though, mainly because they suck.
Pop
All things considered, this is still a pretty cool album. Sure, it needed another month or two to gestate and most, if not all, of the songs were superior live, per usual, but it's still a good listen. I'd add "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me" and "North and South of the River", while "Wake Up Dead Man" is a good song, it's not really my cup of tea, that's why I don't include it. "Miami" is a nifty b-side at best:
Godzilla (one of the running titles of the album before they settled on Pop, I've always dug this title so yeah, here you go)
1. Mofo
2. Discotheque
3. Gone
4. Do You Feel Loved
5. The Playboy Mansion
6. If You Wear That Velvet Dress
7. Last Night on Earth
8. Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me
9. Staring at the Sun
10. If God Will Send His Angels (Single)
11. North and South of the River
12. Please (Single)
All That You Can't Leave Behind
It's a pop-oriented album, but still has a pair of "future classic" tracks ("Beautiful Day", "Walk On") to stand against their previous classics. I've always dug the laid back, R&B-influenced production here, and the use of samples in "In a Little While." Songs like "Wild Honey" and "Grace" are nice b-side material, but not fit for an album, methinks; "Elevation" would best be served as a soundtrack song or stand-alone single, not in the context of the album. "Peace on Earth" would've been best as a pre-cursor to "Walk On," like the live performances. The original album is too single-heavy toward the top - the following mix puts the more light and acoustic songs toward the top (including "Sweetest Thing," which would've never been released before until now) while the second half concentrates on the ballads and Million Dollar Hotel tracks. "The Hands That Built America" takes the place of "New York" as the requisite song about America/NY, while being slightly more subtle about it:
Wild in My Heart (still iffy on the title, but it fits for now.)
1. Beautiful Day
2. In a Little While
3. Sweetest Thing (Single)
4. Summer Rain
5. Flower Child
6. Stuck in a Moment (Acoustic)
7. Kite
8. When I Look at the World
9. Stateless
10. The Ground Beneath Her Feet
11. The Hands That Built America (The Edit + 2.5 VariSpeed)
12. Peace on Earth / Walk On
Maybe the songs that were cut here could re-appear on a U2:7-esque EP.
How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb
Not only were most of the tracks over-produced (too long of a gestation period compared to Pop's short time), but they're all incredibly loud. The dynamic sound is lost and there's not much difference between the quietest and loudest moment of a song, which really bites. Other than production changes, I'd cut "Yahweh" and make the first verse and chorus "One Step Closer" the outro to "Sometimes..." (like the "Shine Like Stars" verse of "With or Without You", for instance). I'd include "Electrical Storm", "Fast Cars", "Smile", and "Mercy" to bulk up the album. This is still a singles-oriented album, more so than ATYCLB, which comes across as more complete by comparison, but it's making some chicken salad out of semi-chicken shit, at least by U2 standards:
One Step Closer
1. City of Blinding Lights
2. Vertigo
3. Crumbs from Your Table
4. Miracle Drug
5. Smile
6. Sometimes You Can't Make It on Your Own / One Step Closer
7. Love and Peace or Else
8. All Because of You (Alt. Version)
9. Fast Cars
10. A Man and a Woman
11. Original of the Species (Single)
12. Electrical Storm (William Orbit Mix)
13. Mercy
Phew, what do you guys think?
OK, here's my thoughts on this -- I actually think U2 are a more successful studio band than many of you think. The band themselves (well, Bono) also seem to think they're inconsistent in the studio, and that their songs really only come to life live. However good they are live, guitar bands don't sell a billion or whatever records if their studio stuff is crap (well, Bon Jovi disproves my theory but they suck on a totally unique level). Yes, U2 are amazing live, but I actually find them more limited live than they are in the studio, where most of their experiments and new ideas have, in my opinion, come to successful fruition. U2 are somewhat musically limited, as they themselves are well aware -- they're not the kind of band that goes onstage, throws the setlist out the window, rocks out, and improvises half the gig. They'd probably love to do that, but they can't, and they're sort of control-freaks for planned quality of performance, so they don't try. And that's fine. But my point is that it's in the studio where they are comfortable enough to make the big decisions and try on new musical hats. So, in essence I tend to agree with Dana (whose posts are generally excellent, by the way) that it may be unfair of fans to critique the guitar tone on an album if the band consciously set out to have that specific guitar tone. I should say: it's okay to critique it (or, indeed, anything), but to say that it was a mistake is somehow not correct if it was intentional.
(By the way, I was amazed at how much I completely disagree with Screwtape's opinions, with the notable exception that we both love "Walk To The Water.")
Boy -- I agree with the original poster that this record is quite complete as it is. I'm not going to nitpick about 1 or 2 songs here and there, but it's really about as good a debut album as U2 could have been expected to make. (Actually, it's better, considering what an improvement it is over their earlier tracks and demos.)
October -- Incomplete. An enjoyable record, but clearly rushed with largely unfinished or undeveloped ideas.
War -- Complete. Yes, it could have been better: "40" in particular sounds (as it truly was) rushed; "Red Light" hasn't aged well; the production sounds muddy to me; but at the end of the day the whole was a good as it could have been. (Incidentally, I don't care at all for "Treasure" -- just listening to it now, and it sounds crap.)
The Unforgettable Fire -- This is the one that could go either way. On the one hand, it's one of my personal favorites, and I think it's tight and quite impressive as it is. It was a huge leap forward sonically, and for Bono's vocals. But as Axver and others point out, there's no denying that the track listing is a bit weird (thus I do feel the need to nitpick this one a bit). "4th of July" is the strangest opening track to one side of a mainstream album ever, and it's one of U2's most boring instrumentals. "Elvis Presley..." is interesting but overlong and probably better left as B-side material.
While it goes without saying that "Bass Trap" (my personal favorite), "Love Comes Tumbling", and "The Three Sunrises" should all have made the finished record, I've always wondered -- are we 100% certain that these three tracks were all done and dusted when the deadline came down for Unforgettable Fire to be released? If they weren't, I might forgive U2.
A distinction to be made at this point in U2's history is that 1985-onward marks the point at which they could take as long as they wanted to make the records. I'm more forgiving of UF knowing that Island's harsh deadline came down fast on them and they had to have a record ready and go to Australia all in a rush. They don't have that excuse after this, though...
The Joshua Tree -- Complete. (By the way, I think there's no way this could have been a double-album.)
Rattle & Hum -- As Axver said, it would have been stunning had they ditched the live tracks (or all of them but one or two). I admire their ambition for this record, but in the end they totally confused people with their intentions (not to mention this is their most pretentious album, which in U2's case is really saying something). Based on the new studio songs, which are exceptionally well-written, it could have been one of the 3 or 4 best albums. So, incomplete.
One thing to note about Rattle & Hum is that it was probably planned as a 4-side vinyl album, in which format it seems rather improved. The tracklisting then goes like this:
A) Helter Skelter (live) / Van Diemen's Land / Desire / Hawkmoon 269
B) [All Live]: All Along the Watchtower / I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For / Freedom for My People (excerpt) / Silver and Gold / Pride (In the Name of Love)
C) Angel Of Harlem / Love Rescue Me / When Love Comes To Town / Heartland
D) God Part II / The Star Spangled Banner (excerpt) / Bullet The Blue Sky (live) / All I Want Is You
Achtung, Baby -- Complete! (I've been listening to this since the week it came out and I've never heard anyone complain about the guitar tone/mix until I read this thread.) This was as good as it could get!
Zooropa -- Another tough one. Since it wasn't originally planned as an album, I tend to think of this one less critically. Still, it might have been wiser to percolate some of the new ideas on the ZooTV tour and then, when it was over, finishing the album, which would have been much better. So, incomplete.
Passengers -- Sorry, I've never heard it!
Pop-- Clearly incomplete. The ideas for the right songs were maybe there, but the execution was awful. There's a lot going wrong on this record. The band like to say that the problem was their running out of time, but I think that was only part of it.
ATYCLB -- I like this album (there, I said it!). I think it's complete. I certainly agree that the tracklisting could have been better ("Walk On" should be at the end; "Elevation" could go entirely and I wouldn't miss it), and it's obviously a self-conscious attempt at a commercial home-run, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Entering their 4th decade, I was more forgiving!
How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb -- I like this one a hell of a lot. It's complete. And the band agree with me!
So my "complete" list is:
Boy
War
The Joshua Tree
Achtung Baby
ATYCLB
How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb
(This is not, however, my favorites list, which would include Rattle & Hum and Unforgettable Fire, and probably delete Boy and ATYCLB.)
(By the way, I was amazed at how much I completely disagree with Screwtape's opinions, with the notable exception that we both love "Walk To The Water.")
Boy -- I agree with the original poster that this record is quite complete as it is. I'm not going to nitpick about 1 or 2 songs here and there, but it's really about as good a debut album as U2 could have been expected to make. (Actually, it's better, considering what an improvement it is over their earlier tracks and demos.)
October -- Incomplete. An enjoyable record, but clearly rushed with largely unfinished or undeveloped ideas.
War -- Complete. Yes, it could have been better: "40" in particular sounds (as it truly was) rushed; "Red Light" hasn't aged well; the production sounds muddy to me; but at the end of the day the whole was a good as it could have been. (Incidentally, I don't care at all for "Treasure" -- just listening to it now, and it sounds crap.)
The Unforgettable Fire -- This is the one that could go either way. On the one hand, it's one of my personal favorites, and I think it's tight and quite impressive as it is. It was a huge leap forward sonically, and for Bono's vocals. But as Axver and others point out, there's no denying that the track listing is a bit weird (thus I do feel the need to nitpick this one a bit). "4th of July" is the strangest opening track to one side of a mainstream album ever, and it's one of U2's most boring instrumentals. "Elvis Presley..." is interesting but overlong and probably better left as B-side material.
While it goes without saying that "Bass Trap" (my personal favorite), "Love Comes Tumbling", and "The Three Sunrises" should all have made the finished record, I've always wondered -- are we 100% certain that these three tracks were all done and dusted when the deadline came down for Unforgettable Fire to be released? If they weren't, I might forgive U2.
A distinction to be made at this point in U2's history is that 1985-onward marks the point at which they could take as long as they wanted to make the records. I'm more forgiving of UF knowing that Island's harsh deadline came down fast on them and they had to have a record ready and go to Australia all in a rush. They don't have that excuse after this, though...
The Joshua Tree -- Complete. (By the way, I think there's no way this could have been a double-album.)
Rattle & Hum -- As Axver said, it would have been stunning had they ditched the live tracks (or all of them but one or two). I admire their ambition for this record, but in the end they totally confused people with their intentions (not to mention this is their most pretentious album, which in U2's case is really saying something). Based on the new studio songs, which are exceptionally well-written, it could have been one of the 3 or 4 best albums. So, incomplete.
One thing to note about Rattle & Hum is that it was probably planned as a 4-side vinyl album, in which format it seems rather improved. The tracklisting then goes like this:
A) Helter Skelter (live) / Van Diemen's Land / Desire / Hawkmoon 269
B) [All Live]: All Along the Watchtower / I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For / Freedom for My People (excerpt) / Silver and Gold / Pride (In the Name of Love)
C) Angel Of Harlem / Love Rescue Me / When Love Comes To Town / Heartland
D) God Part II / The Star Spangled Banner (excerpt) / Bullet The Blue Sky (live) / All I Want Is You
Achtung, Baby -- Complete! (I've been listening to this since the week it came out and I've never heard anyone complain about the guitar tone/mix until I read this thread.) This was as good as it could get!
Zooropa -- Another tough one. Since it wasn't originally planned as an album, I tend to think of this one less critically. Still, it might have been wiser to percolate some of the new ideas on the ZooTV tour and then, when it was over, finishing the album, which would have been much better. So, incomplete.
Passengers -- Sorry, I've never heard it!
Pop-- Clearly incomplete. The ideas for the right songs were maybe there, but the execution was awful. There's a lot going wrong on this record. The band like to say that the problem was their running out of time, but I think that was only part of it.
ATYCLB -- I like this album (there, I said it!). I think it's complete. I certainly agree that the tracklisting could have been better ("Walk On" should be at the end; "Elevation" could go entirely and I wouldn't miss it), and it's obviously a self-conscious attempt at a commercial home-run, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Entering their 4th decade, I was more forgiving!
How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb -- I like this one a hell of a lot. It's complete. And the band agree with me!
So my "complete" list is:
Boy
War
The Joshua Tree
Achtung Baby
ATYCLB
How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb
(This is not, however, my favorites list, which would include Rattle & Hum and Unforgettable Fire, and probably delete Boy and ATYCLB.)
OP
OP
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
I also agree with your methods of restructuring Bomb, though I think you're a little harsh on the songs themselves. As I said earlier, it's a great set of songs, but it manages to sound uninteresting and flat due to its lack of a recurring musical theme and dense production.
Salome
you are what you is
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
I also agree with your methods of restructuring Bomb, though I think you're a little harsh on the songs themselves. As I said earlier, it's a great set of songs, but it manages to sound uninteresting and flat due to its lack of a recurring musical theme and dense production.
Hm, I didn't mean to come across that way. I just dislike the production on that album, but really dig the songs. To me, Bomb isn't an album, but a collection of singles. The "semi-chicken shit" meant making it feel more like an album, and wasn't meant to be a dig on the songs themselves, though I can see how it could come across that way.
intedomine
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
Complete albums for me are the first three, they couldn't sound any differently to me. You could be tempted to throw/swap Things to Make and Do, Another Day or 11 O'clock into Boy, but the latter two were written as one-off singles.
A Celebration is in the same boat. October is fine as it is for me, and as much as I adore Celebration, it is an ideal one-off single.
With The Unforgettable Fire. I'd personally look at trying to remove Wire (just a personal dislike and throwing in LCT or TTS somewhere, just perfect atmospheric songs that could really enhance an already brilliant flow. They might compliment the (unfairly) much maligned ISS a bit better.
Joshua Tree is perfect, but consider the double-album potential and the "two americas" concept and you could have the most visionary and encapsulative, yet still cohesive, double albums of all time.
R&H is a mess.
The whole Achtung Baby/Zooropa era could be massively reconstructed if you try to integrate the more poppy mixes of Where Did It All Go Wrong, Salome and She's Gonna Blow Yer House Down somehow, but the albums would require massive restructuring, perhaps at the expense of songs like TTTYAATW and even Acrobat.
The thing about these 90's albums is that I don't think I could imagine them any other way, so they are in a sense "complete" to me. I might play around with playlists a little.
The main problem with ATYCLB for me is the album mixes of the songs. I think it would have been better if New York was more rockier and Elevation and Walk On were the single versions instead. A Ground Beneath Her Feet and Stateless could be thrown in there somewhere, but I agree with previously mentioned sentiment to consider Walk On as an album closer......
HTDAAB is a bit of a mess and very incomplete, and this is probably down to the seemingly shambolic recording sessions where Chris Thomas was given the flick and all the old heads were reinvited. The album should have been geared more towards that "punk rock on venus" idea, and pursued a cohesion that a riff-based direction evident in Vertigo/Full Metal Jacket might have offered. I tried an alternative tracklisting once and it seemed pretty alright, I'll try and hunt that down. But Are You Gonna Wait Forever played a big part in giving the Bomb a more complete structure.
A Celebration is in the same boat. October is fine as it is for me, and as much as I adore Celebration, it is an ideal one-off single.
With The Unforgettable Fire. I'd personally look at trying to remove Wire (just a personal dislike and throwing in LCT or TTS somewhere, just perfect atmospheric songs that could really enhance an already brilliant flow. They might compliment the (unfairly) much maligned ISS a bit better.
Joshua Tree is perfect, but consider the double-album potential and the "two americas" concept and you could have the most visionary and encapsulative, yet still cohesive, double albums of all time.
R&H is a mess.
The whole Achtung Baby/Zooropa era could be massively reconstructed if you try to integrate the more poppy mixes of Where Did It All Go Wrong, Salome and She's Gonna Blow Yer House Down somehow, but the albums would require massive restructuring, perhaps at the expense of songs like TTTYAATW and even Acrobat.
The thing about these 90's albums is that I don't think I could imagine them any other way, so they are in a sense "complete" to me. I might play around with playlists a little.
The main problem with ATYCLB for me is the album mixes of the songs. I think it would have been better if New York was more rockier and Elevation and Walk On were the single versions instead. A Ground Beneath Her Feet and Stateless could be thrown in there somewhere, but I agree with previously mentioned sentiment to consider Walk On as an album closer......
HTDAAB is a bit of a mess and very incomplete, and this is probably down to the seemingly shambolic recording sessions where Chris Thomas was given the flick and all the old heads were reinvited. The album should have been geared more towards that "punk rock on venus" idea, and pursued a cohesion that a riff-based direction evident in Vertigo/Full Metal Jacket might have offered. I tried an alternative tracklisting once and it seemed pretty alright, I'll try and hunt that down. But Are You Gonna Wait Forever played a big part in giving the Bomb a more complete structure.
theFly51
New Yorker
If AB and Zooropa turned up the guitars a lil they would've been perfect IMO.
Joey788
Refugee
In terms of writing complete albums, I think U2 is very effective in the material, somewhat effective in tracklisting, and hit or miss in terms of production.
Boy
I'd say their debut album is pretty complete. Squeezing 11 O'Clock somewhere in their could improve it, but the album sounds pretty good as a whole. I like the tracklisting except the slowness of The Ocean in between all these faster songs makes it feel a little dull.
October
Lots of problems on this one. Due to rushing, it sounds really unfinished, both lyrically and musically. The tracklisting doesn't work that well either. It's good up at the beginning but Fire->Tomorrow->October sounds pretty bad. Going from the Fire doesn't mix well with Tomorrow's soft beginning and Tomorrow's loud ending doesn't segue well into October. Is That All? should be resigned to b-side status. I would have put Fire -> Stranger In A Strange Land -> October -> Tomorrow -> With A Shout -> Scarlet.
War
Pretty complete. I would move Drowning Man to before Surrender, ditch Red Light in favor of Treasure, and lengthen 40, allowing the "how longs" to go on for a little while.
UF
The first half of this album is great in terms of tracklisting. The second half of this album sucks when it comes to that. I would put Indian Summer Sky after Wire. Throw out EPAA and 4th of July for Boomerang II and The Three Sunrises. My tracklisting for this album would look something like this:
1. ASOH
2. Pride
3. Wire
4. ISS
5. The Unforgettable Fire
6. The Three Sunrises
7. Boomerang II
8. Bad
9. Promenade
10. MLK
The Joshua Tree
Pretty much perfect as it is. I would only add Walk to Water after WOWY and replace Trip Through Your Wires with Spanish Eyes. The only change to the tracklisting would be to switch the places of Spanish Eyes and Red Hill Mining Town.
Rattle and Hum
Either throw out all the live tracks or make it a double album, one of live material and one of new studio material. For the studio material, I would rearrange the tracklisting to something like this:
1. Hawkmoon 269
2. Desire
3. Angel of Harlem
4. Van Diemen's Land
5. Love Rescue Me
6. When Love Comes To Town
7. God Part II
8. Heartland
9. All I Want Is You
Achtung Baby
The production on this album really is horrible and needs the most amount of improvement. One should end with the "Do you hear us coming" verse. UTEOTW needs to have it's hard rocking ending that it does live. Love is Blindness can do without Bono's random "Da da das" at the end.
Zooropa
I'd ditch Babyface and put in Bono's version of Slow Dancing after The First Time. Besides that, there's not much I would change hear.
Pop
Pretty good production, but some clunkers in this album. Miami and The Playboy Mansion both need to go. The single remixes of LNOE, Please, and IGWSHA should be on the album. Also, Mofo should be the album opener.
ATYCLB
The tracklisting is really bad. The flow between Beautiful Day, Stuck, Elevation, and Walk On is practically non-existent. Stuck should be acoustic, Elevation should be the Tomb Raider Mix, Walk On should be the closer, with Grace being booted off the album, and Summer Rain should be included in the tracklist.
HTDAAB
First off, the production sounds too much like a sterile studio session. It's way too overdone. The tracklisting isn't impressive either. COBL should be the opener followed by Vertigo. ABOY could do without the ear-piercing first note. Trade out One Step Closer for Smile and include Fast Cars on all album versions. I could do without the "Where is the love?" at the end of LAPOE. It'd sound better with just the instruments ending it. Yahweh would sound much better as the stripped down versions that existed on tour.
Boy
I'd say their debut album is pretty complete. Squeezing 11 O'Clock somewhere in their could improve it, but the album sounds pretty good as a whole. I like the tracklisting except the slowness of The Ocean in between all these faster songs makes it feel a little dull.
October
Lots of problems on this one. Due to rushing, it sounds really unfinished, both lyrically and musically. The tracklisting doesn't work that well either. It's good up at the beginning but Fire->Tomorrow->October sounds pretty bad. Going from the Fire doesn't mix well with Tomorrow's soft beginning and Tomorrow's loud ending doesn't segue well into October. Is That All? should be resigned to b-side status. I would have put Fire -> Stranger In A Strange Land -> October -> Tomorrow -> With A Shout -> Scarlet.
War
Pretty complete. I would move Drowning Man to before Surrender, ditch Red Light in favor of Treasure, and lengthen 40, allowing the "how longs" to go on for a little while.
UF
The first half of this album is great in terms of tracklisting. The second half of this album sucks when it comes to that. I would put Indian Summer Sky after Wire. Throw out EPAA and 4th of July for Boomerang II and The Three Sunrises. My tracklisting for this album would look something like this:
1. ASOH
2. Pride
3. Wire
4. ISS
5. The Unforgettable Fire
6. The Three Sunrises
7. Boomerang II
8. Bad
9. Promenade
10. MLK
The Joshua Tree
Pretty much perfect as it is. I would only add Walk to Water after WOWY and replace Trip Through Your Wires with Spanish Eyes. The only change to the tracklisting would be to switch the places of Spanish Eyes and Red Hill Mining Town.
Rattle and Hum
Either throw out all the live tracks or make it a double album, one of live material and one of new studio material. For the studio material, I would rearrange the tracklisting to something like this:
1. Hawkmoon 269
2. Desire
3. Angel of Harlem
4. Van Diemen's Land
5. Love Rescue Me
6. When Love Comes To Town
7. God Part II
8. Heartland
9. All I Want Is You
Achtung Baby
The production on this album really is horrible and needs the most amount of improvement. One should end with the "Do you hear us coming" verse. UTEOTW needs to have it's hard rocking ending that it does live. Love is Blindness can do without Bono's random "Da da das" at the end.
Zooropa
I'd ditch Babyface and put in Bono's version of Slow Dancing after The First Time. Besides that, there's not much I would change hear.
Pop
Pretty good production, but some clunkers in this album. Miami and The Playboy Mansion both need to go. The single remixes of LNOE, Please, and IGWSHA should be on the album. Also, Mofo should be the album opener.
ATYCLB
The tracklisting is really bad. The flow between Beautiful Day, Stuck, Elevation, and Walk On is practically non-existent. Stuck should be acoustic, Elevation should be the Tomb Raider Mix, Walk On should be the closer, with Grace being booted off the album, and Summer Rain should be included in the tracklist.
HTDAAB
First off, the production sounds too much like a sterile studio session. It's way too overdone. The tracklisting isn't impressive either. COBL should be the opener followed by Vertigo. ABOY could do without the ear-piercing first note. Trade out One Step Closer for Smile and include Fast Cars on all album versions. I could do without the "Where is the love?" at the end of LAPOE. It'd sound better with just the instruments ending it. Yahweh would sound much better as the stripped down versions that existed on tour.
jphelmet
Refugee
some of you guys are so way over the top too anaylitical for me. as for tracklistings, i think its ridiculous to say this is they way it should have been . i would make a couple small changes (and do on my own playlists now), but i can't say they are definetly better. for every change i see proposed there are new probelms that arise. no matter how you rearrange them, after time you will think its just not quite right- its a no win.
complete albums for me:
boy
i would love to hear a re-recorded version with bono singing now of these songs. amazing album that aged very well.
uf
i don't know why any sane person would want to include the very mediocre b-sides or get rid of the beautiful ep&america. three sunrises is an ok song, but a significant drop off from everything on the album except 4th of July. the other b-sides sound like, well b-sides. i can see the dig on 4th of july- but i'm probably just being nostalgic but it fits to me.
joshua tree- now many years later, i could see exchanging trip through your wires with luminous times, but when it came out that song fit perfectly. i think its funny when someone says get rid of it- it should never been on there and they were 2 years old when the album came out. it didn't age well, but seemed to fit very well for the first decade to me. fwiw, i loved spanish eyes, luminous times from the minute i bought the cassette singles with them on there, but i never thought they should be on the album or replace anything. maybe its that the album in so ingrained in me as it is, changing any of seems ridiculous.
achtung baby- i wouldn't change anything. i don't particularly like even better, and never really liked it een when it first came out. it does seem to fit the album very well though and helps with the completeness.
pop- when i mix the cleaned up new versions of the ones i thinked they improved on, its just about perfect for me. as a whole this album seems to fit well together. as much as people bash miami and playboy mansion, i think they fit so well in that album. neither are great songs, but they add to the album as a whole.
the almost but just missed for me.
bomb- get rid of a man and a woman for a cleaned up mercy or smile, and its great for me. i can't for the life of me understand people dropping yahweh. i like the stripped down live version much better, but still a great track.
atyclb- close for me, i like all the songs except stuck in a moment- just the most awful u2 song to me. elevation is cheesy, but it seems to go well with the rest of the album. i know i am in the minority, but i like the rest very much, and that includes grace.
war- refugee and red light make this album so much worse. i cringe when i hear those- just very bad songs.
complete albums for me:
boy
i would love to hear a re-recorded version with bono singing now of these songs. amazing album that aged very well.
uf
i don't know why any sane person would want to include the very mediocre b-sides or get rid of the beautiful ep&america. three sunrises is an ok song, but a significant drop off from everything on the album except 4th of July. the other b-sides sound like, well b-sides. i can see the dig on 4th of july- but i'm probably just being nostalgic but it fits to me.
joshua tree- now many years later, i could see exchanging trip through your wires with luminous times, but when it came out that song fit perfectly. i think its funny when someone says get rid of it- it should never been on there and they were 2 years old when the album came out. it didn't age well, but seemed to fit very well for the first decade to me. fwiw, i loved spanish eyes, luminous times from the minute i bought the cassette singles with them on there, but i never thought they should be on the album or replace anything. maybe its that the album in so ingrained in me as it is, changing any of seems ridiculous.
achtung baby- i wouldn't change anything. i don't particularly like even better, and never really liked it een when it first came out. it does seem to fit the album very well though and helps with the completeness.
pop- when i mix the cleaned up new versions of the ones i thinked they improved on, its just about perfect for me. as a whole this album seems to fit well together. as much as people bash miami and playboy mansion, i think they fit so well in that album. neither are great songs, but they add to the album as a whole.
the almost but just missed for me.
bomb- get rid of a man and a woman for a cleaned up mercy or smile, and its great for me. i can't for the life of me understand people dropping yahweh. i like the stripped down live version much better, but still a great track.
atyclb- close for me, i like all the songs except stuck in a moment- just the most awful u2 song to me. elevation is cheesy, but it seems to go well with the rest of the album. i know i am in the minority, but i like the rest very much, and that includes grace.
war- refugee and red light make this album so much worse. i cringe when i hear those- just very bad songs.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
Look, another chance to say negative shit about U2. How original? NOT!
I wish I had the time to sit around thinking about all those "incomplete" U2 albums.
If it ain't broke, leave it the fuck alone!
Why doesn't someone come up with a thread that discusses something positive about U2? Now there's an original concept.
I know its much more fun for most of you to come up with horseshit like name your least favorite U2 song from every album.
I wish I had the time to sit around thinking about all those "incomplete" U2 albums.
If it ain't broke, leave it the fuck alone!
Why doesn't someone come up with a thread that discusses something positive about U2? Now there's an original concept.
I know its much more fun for most of you to come up with horseshit like name your least favorite U2 song from every album.
Zoots
Blue Crack Supplier
I just like how hilariously different everyone's so called fixes are! If the band ever listened to their fans, they would be tearing their hair out.
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