Vitalogy could be an amazing EP!

[The OOTS]

Originally posted by lazarus


Don't even get me started on No Code, which is in my opinion one of the best albums of the 90's.

I really enjoy No Code as well. But, I'd stil rank it behind one of my all time favorites from the 90s...Yield!

[Se7en]

Originally posted by The OOTS


I really enjoy No Code as well. But, I'd stil rank it behind one of my all time favorites from the 90s...Yield!

yield is my favorite.

[Achtung Joshua!]

Originally posted by lazarus
Jeez, is no one going to defend this album? Aren't there any true blue PJ fans on the site? The album is certainly not perfect, and I could certainly do without something generic like Satan's Bed, but it's far more than an EP. You could make the greatest single album ever out of The White Album but it's not worth losing all the little musical experiments.

Every song on an album doesn't have to be a single. While I wouldn't just call up Pry, To for an individual listen, it contributes to the overall ebb and flow of the entire recording. I'm amazed that instead of praising Pearl Jam for trying new things and trying to break out of the grunge mold, they get criticized for not having enough songs that are radio-worthy. That's bullshit. I LOVE hearing Aye Davanita. And people accuse Vedder of taking himself too seriously yet begrudge him Bugs. Doesn't bother me. And Whipping may not be a fantastic song musically, but it's about the guy who shot someone at an abortion clinic and carries a lot of thematic weight.

The most important thing though, is defending Stupid Mop, which is just brilliant to me. It's like Revolution #9, which many Beatles fans despise, but it shows the artist using the studio to forge something outside the normal boundaries of what we would call a song. Let's not forget that much of this album was inspired by or a reaction to the suicide of Kurt Cobain, which affected the band enormously, Vedder most of all as he was put in a similar position by the media. The recordings of the woman talking about suicide are chilling, and if you can't respect what the band was trying to do here that's unfortunate. The album ends with the woman admitting that she has thought about killing herself, and is extremely powerful.

Don't even get me started on No Code, which is in my opinion one of the best albums of the 90's.

I'm a pretty big PJ fan and have been since day one and the only PJ albums I can't get into are the last two. Anyways, I just wanted to clearify that Vitology was released before Cobain's murder. I remember watching their Saturday Night Live performance a couple of weeks after Cobain's murder where they performed Not For You, Daughter, and Rearview Mirror. The mood was surreal and Eddie had written the letter K with a marker on his t-shirt over his heart. They played with a lot of passion as always but Eddie clearly didn't seem like himself. As far as their music goes I prefer their first two albums the most (TEN is a masterpiece). I'd have to blame the over-hype of the grunge scene and Niel Young for their tamed down music through the years.

[Zoots]

Originally posted by Achtung Joshua!

As far as their music goes I prefer their first two albums the most (TEN is a masterpiece). I'd have to blame the over-hype of the grunge scene and Niel Young for their tamed down music through the years.

Completely agree! esp. about TEN and the death of grunge.

[The OOTS]

Originally posted by Achtung Joshua!


I'd have to blame the over-hype of the grunge scene and Niel Young for their tamed down music through the years.

I think their music eventually evovled because they matured over the years...similar to how the Beatles music matured.

While TEN was very good for the time, YIELD is their masterpiece imo.

[lazarus]

Originally posted by Achtung Joshua!
Anyways, I just wanted to clearify that Vitology was released before Cobain's murder. I remember watching their Saturday Night Live performance a couple of weeks after Cobain's murder where they performed Not For You, Daughter, and Rearview Mirror. The mood was surreal and Eddie had written the letter K with a marker on his t-shirt over his heart. They played with a lot of passion as always but Eddie clearly didn't seem like himself. As far as their music goes I prefer their first two albums the most (TEN is a masterpiece). I'd have to blame the over-hype of the grunge scene and Niel Young for their tamed down music through the years.

Vitalogy was absolutely NOT released before Kurt died. THe suicide happened in the spring of '94, and Vitalogy was not released until the fall. While the majority of the writing was completed beforehand, something like Immortality is clearly inspired by the incident. There's even a quote on the lyric page which is Vedder directly referring to his relationship with Kurt. I don't have it in front of me so I can't quote it exactly.

Plus, I'd be surprised if the decision to call the album Vitalogy and the whole concept around the album didn't come out of what happened earlier in the year.

Also, the samples in Stupid Mop addressing suicide--that ain't no coincidence.

One last thing--Ten is far from a masterpiece. Some good songs, but way overproduced and too uniform-sounding. It's really an insult to Pearl Jam to say that their earliest work was somehow their most accomplished. Versus was a total improvement and they added a lot to their sound with that one. But I really feel it wasn't until albums 3 & 4 that they really started carrying a lot of weight as artists.

[U2DMfan]

to back up Lazarus, Vitalogy came out a full 8 months after Cobain died.

I love Ten, Vs, Vitalogy, No Code and Yield. All brilliant in their own respects. The last two were just subpar, especially Binaural which I think is absolutely terrible.

[The OOTS]

Originally posted by lazarus


Vitalogy was absolutely NOT released before Kurt died. THe suicide happened in the spring of '94 and Vitalogy was not released until the fall. While the majority of the writing was completed beforehand, something like Immortality is clearly inspired by the incident. There's even a quote on the lyric page which is Vedder directly referring to his relationship with Kurt. I don't have it in front of me so I can't quote it exactly.

PJ was performing songs from Vitalogy during their tour in early 94, before Cobain died(April 8th??)...and before the album was released. Most of the songs were written and being played live. In fact, Immortality was performed on April 12th of 94...days after the suicide. Vedder has said that Immortality lyrics were not inspired by Cobain, although the lyrics could eerily be about him.

[The OOTS]

Originally posted by U2DMfan
to back up Lazarus, Vitalogy came out a full 8 months after Cobain died.

I love Ten, Vs, Vitalogy, No Code and Yield. All brilliant in their own respects. The last two were just subpar, especially Binaural which I think is absolutely terrible.

I agree, the last two albums were subpar. I still think that Riot Act is the worse of the bunch.

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Originally posted by The OOTS
I really enjoy No Code as well. But, I'd stil rank it behind one of my all time favorites from the 90s...Yield!

No Code is underrated, but Yield that is just brilliant and it's so under the radar.

I hate genres, because all genres die and then the bands in those genres are left to fend for themselves. PJ made some brilliant albums in the 90's, however their last few albums have been disjointed and muddle in my opinion.

[lazarus]

Originally posted by The OOTS


PJ was performing songs from Vitalogy during their tour in early 94, before Cobain died(April 8th??)...and before the album was released. Most of the songs were written and being played live. In fact, Immortality was performed on April 12th of 94...days after the suicide. Vedder has said that Immortality lyrics were not inspired by Cobain, although the lyrics could eerily be about him.

That may be so, but the lyrics changed between the times they debuted the song and when it was finished.

Vedder has said that he didn't want to appear to be exploiting Kurt's death for his own gain, so it's doubtful he would admit if there was a stronger influence. Regardless, it's clear that some of the lines in Immortality are referring to Cobain, or someone exactly like him. The "vessel stabbed", "cigar box"...it's just too coincidental.

This is the writing I mentioned before, which is found on a different page in the booklet:

"I waited all day.
you waited all day..
but you left before the sunset..

and I just wanted to tell you
the moment was beautiful.
Just wanted to dance to bad music
drive bad cars..
watch bad TV..

should have stayed for the sunset...
if not for me."

I remember reading somewhere that this WAS something directed at Kurt, and how he just wanted to spend some "normal" time with the guy despite the rumored feud between the two of them.

Also, there's no way in hell that Stupid Mop was finished the way it appears on the album before the suicide. I just can't believe that. I'm also curious to know when the concept and art was decided upon.

[The OOTS]

Originally posted by lazarus




Vedder has said that he didn't want to appear to be exploiting Kurt's death for his own gain, so it's doubtful he would admit if there was a stronger influence. Regardless, it's clear that some of the lines in Immortality are referring to Cobain, or someone exactly like him. The "vessel stabbed", "cigar box"...it's just too coincidental.

I agree with you, I was just pointing out the song existed well before Cobain died, so it wasn't originally intended to be about/for him. The lyrics were changed when the song was finally recorded, and the references to him are clear, but it wasn't written or inspred by his death.

I don't know about Stupid Mop...

[Zoots]

Okay, so I listened to the experimental side of the album again after quite a while and I actually... don't mind it so much! maybe all except for Stupid Mop and Pry To which is short anyway.

I just wish the grunge scene had remained active throughout the 90s, so we would have had many more albums that sounded like Ten, Nevermind, Superunknown, Core and Dirt.