why The Best Of 80-90 can't crack the pop catalogue chart?

[Bastian]

Hi everybody,
I can't understand why bands that are less popular than U2 in America like Bon Jovi and Queen have always albums in the top 25 Billboard's pop catalogue chart, while U2 not.

Maybe U2 are not so huge in America as we supposed to be or Bon Jovi is becoming huger than U2 in America?

[vaz02]

Queen are hugely popular in the US and I suppose u either love or hate Bon Jovi.

[STING2]

Originally posted by Bastian
Hi everybody,
I can't understand why bands that are less popular than U2 in America like Bon Jovi and Queen have always albums in the top 25 Billboard's pop catalogue chart, while U2 not.

Maybe U2 are not so huge in America as we supposed to be or Bon Jovi is becoming huger than U2 in America?

Well, to measure the popularity of any artist against another, you simply take a look at the two factors the industry weighs equally in determining popularity, concert drawing strength of the latest tour, and album sales of the latest album.

The Vertigo Tour GROSSED over $140 million dollars in North America. Bon Jovi has never GROSSED over $100 million dollars on a single tour in North America including the current one. U2's Vertigo Tour was completely soldout, with shows selling out in hours. Many Bon Jovi Concerts failed to sellout, even though they did not attempt to sell seats behind the stage in many markets. Even on Bon Jovi's home turf, New York City and Philadelphia, U2 can sell more tickets at a higher price than Bon Jovi.

In Album sales, HTDAAB has sold over 3.2 million copies in the United States. "Have A Nice Day" has only sold 1.2 million copies.

U2 is roughly 3 times more popular currently than Bon Jovi overall.

As for catalog sales, sales of older albums, you need to consider that "non-fans" are the ones purchasing Greatest Hits albums. You then need to consider that U2 has two Greatest Hits album as opposed to one by Bon Jovi. So sales get divided up. Another thing to consider is the sales of the studio albums where U2 has a clear lead. Of albums released prior to 1991 when Soundscan started tracking sales in the US, U2 has 3 albums that have sold more than 1 million copies in the USA, Bon Jovi only has one.

U2 “The Joshua tree” 3,036,000 dec05
U2 "War" 1,406,000 dec05
U2 “Rattle & Hum” 1,182,000 dec05


Bon Jovi “Slippery When Wet” 2,734,000 may06


Bon Jovi's albums since 1990 have not been strong catalog sellers either. U2's sells are more evenly distributed between their albums and their Best Of Material, while Bon Jovi's catalog sales seem more focused on their Best Of album and Slippery When Wet.

[Bastian]

I don't understand why The Best Of 80-90 isn't charting in the top 25 pop catalog chart,

It has a lot of smash hits: Pride, Sunday Bloody Sunday, Streets, I Still Haven't Found, Desire and With Or Without You

So why it doesn't chart in the top 25?

[edge3]

2 months ago Best of 80-90 had spent 143 wks on BB's top 50 catalogue chart. As of this week Bon Jovi's 'Cross Road' has now spent 146 wks on this chart but this was released 4 years earlier, so has had much more time to be on the chart. Cross Road is presumably doing well now (best ever run on BB Pop Cat. Chart actually) 'cos Bon Jovi are currently touring/releasing new album/singles (U2 aren't, now) or 'cos of major price reduction.

As for overall sales : Best Of 80-90 is now at over 4m in US (~3m single disc + ~1.2m double disc)...same as Cross Road though Best Of 80-90 easily outsold Cross Road last year with 39 wks on BB top 50 catalogue chart to just 11 for Cross Road (same in 2004 too : by 14 wks to just 1).

Also Joshua Tree has now spent exactly twice as long on the BB top 50 catalogue chart as Slippery When Wet (246 wks to 123 wks).

Generally though Americans do love classic albums by classic rock bands, which is why Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon, AC/DC's Back In Black, Metallica's Black Album &, to a lesser extent, Queens Greatest Hits, really have, always done amazingly well on BB Catalogue chart.

[edge3]

Sorry to go on and all but just thought i should also mention that since Soundscan started tracking album sales, in 1991, U2 have easily outsold Bon Jovi & Queen. In fact the only bands that have outsold U2 during this time in the USA are The Beatles, Metallica, Pink Floyd & the Backstreet Boys.

Here's where these bands stand amongst the top 100 Best sellling album artists of the Soundscan era (1991-1st Jan 2006) with the amount of albums they've shifted (& they're estimated overall career totals) :

2nd - The Beatles with 50.8m albums sold (est. career total to May 06 = 164m)
5th - Metallica with 47.0m albums sold (est. career total to May 06 = 55m)
10th - Pink Floyd with 32.0m albums sold (est. career total to May 06 = 70m)
13th - Backstreet Boys with 30.3m albums sold (career total to 1st Jan 06 = 30.3m)
14th - U2 with 30.0m albums sold (est. career total to May 06 = 57m)
66th - Queen with 16.8m albums sold (Raw RIAA career shipment total to May 06 = 31.5m)
87th - Bon Jovi with 14.9m albums sold (Raw RIAA career shipment total to May 06 = 33.0m)

[Bastian]

edge3 and STING2 I thank you for your data,
but you haven't answered to my question:

Why The Best Of 80-90 can't chart in the top 25 BB catalog chart?

[STING2]

Originally posted by Bastian
edge3 and STING2 I thank you for your data,
but you haven't answered to my question:

Why The Best Of 80-90 can't chart in the top 25 BB catalog chart?

Well, it already has charted in the Billboard top 25 and it has sold as many copies as Crossroads by Bon Jovi has. The reason it is not charting right now in the top 25 is because U2 is off the road and the promotion period for HTDAAB has essentially ended with the exception of the 10 remaining shows for the tour which will take place in December. Bon Jovi is actively promoting a new album and is in the middle of a full scale tour.

The Best of 80-90 already has made it into the top 25 on BB catalog chart, so I don't understand why you insist that it can't?

Once Crossroads drops out of the top 25, would it be fair to say that it can't chart in the BB top 25? That makes no sense.

When U2 comes out with another album and tours, the Best of 80-90 will climb into the top 25 and Bon Jovi's Crossroads will likely not even be in the top 50, unless the band happens to put an album out and tour at the same time U2 does.

[Bastian]

Originally posted by STING2


Well, it already has charted in the Billboard top 25 and it has sold as many copies as Crossroads by Bon Jovi has. The reason it is not charting right now in the top 25 is because U2 is off the road and the promotion period for HTDAAB has essentially ended with the exception of the 10 remaining shows for the tour which will take place in December. Bon Jovi is actively promoting a new album and is in the middle of a full scale tour.

The Best of 80-90 already has made it into the top 25 on BB catalog chart, so I don't understand why you insist that it can't?

Once Crossroads drops out of the top 25, would it be fair to say that it can't chart in the BB top 25? That makes no sense.

When U2 comes out with another album and tours, the Best of 80-90 will climb into the top 25 and Bon Jovi's Crossroads will likely not even be in the top 50, unless the band happens to put an album out and tour at the same time U2 does.

I mean Dark Side Of The Moon, Back in Black and Queen's greatest hits are always in the top 25 and they are not touring or realising new album

I'd like to see always The Best Of 80-90 in the top 25 just like Dark Side Of The Moon

[edge3]

Originally posted by Bastian



I mean Dark Side Of The Moon, Back in Black and Queen's greatest hits are always in the top 25 and they are not touring or realising new album

I'd like to see always The Best Of 80-90 in the top 25 just like Dark Side Of The Moon

AC/DC have never released a Best Of collection. If they had & it included a few of the classic songs off Back In Black then it would most likely greatly reduce sales of said album (a la Guns 'N Roses's recent Greatest Hits & Appetite For Destruction).

Queen's Greatest Hits has only started doing well again since 2003 mainly due to the Queen 'We Will Rock You' musical. It was out of the top 25 for 3 years before this & only in the top 50 for a bit.

Dark Side Of The Moon is just a one off freak (well, the 2002 Echoes collection doesn't seem to have stopped it's amazing performance).

Btw, Best Of 80-90 has spent 75 wks in the Top 25 since it could start qualifying on the Catalogue chart in late Nov 2000. Earlier this year it was in the top 25 & last year it spent another 12 wks in the top 25. Here's it's full run on the Top 50 catalogue chart (up to 29/04/06) :

THE BEST OF 1980-1990 (By U2 ) 143 Wks in top 50 up to 29/04/06

25.11.2000 2 Wks Peak : 19 The Best Of 1980-1990
19-42-->2 Wks
06.01.2001 49 Wks Peak : 5 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 1)
45-20-13-18-12-17-23-27-27-12-17-19-22-22-20-20-21-18-14-14-15-12-19-20-16-17-17-17-28-24-26-24-18-12-10-6-17-5-5-6-8-14-15-16-15-17-23-31-31-->49 Wks
29.12.2001 19 Wks Peak : 2 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 2)
47-30-18-14-13-20-23-18-2-4-3-3-3-5-6-12-17-23-39-->19 Wks
29.06.2002 3 Wks Peak : 42 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 3)
44-42-47-->3 Wks
19.10.2002 1 Wk Peak : 46 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 4)
23.11.2002 1 Wk Peak : 43 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 5)
13.12.2003 1 Wk Peak : 46 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 6)
17.01.2004 3 Wks Peak : 26 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 7)
26-33-39-->3 Wks
02.10.2004 11 Wks Peak : 19 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 8)
35-38-35-33-19-24-26-30-40-40-38-->11 Wks
08.01.2005 10 Wks Peak : 19 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 9)
39-31-19-22-27-27-36-32-30-42-->10 Wks
26.03.2005 23 Wks Peak : 15 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 10)
44-21-16-18-16-15-16-19-25-29-28-31-35-41-36-43-36-36-37-28-30-28-40-->23 Wks
29.10.2005 3 Wks Peak : 42 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 11)
44-48-42-->3 Wks
03.12.2005 3 Wks Peak : 13 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 12)
19-13-42-->3 Wks
21.01.2006 11 Wks Peak : 23 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 13)
36-40-24-31-44-23-28-37-45-44-38-->11 Wks
15.04.2006 3 Wks Peak : 31 The Best Of 1980-1990 (Re-Entry 14)
47-31-49-->3 Wks


In comparison Cross Road has now spent 81 wks in the top 25 in total since it debuted on the Top 50 Catalogue chart in July 2000 :

CROSS ROAD (By Bon Jovi ) 146 Wks in top 50 to date

01/07/2000 - 25 - 5 - Cross Road 5-16-21-23-19-24-17-22-14-18-24-27-24-21-9-8-9-12-16-14-19-23-26-49-8-->25 Wks
06/01/2001 - 25 - 8 - Cross Road (Re-entry 1)
50-30-15-22-26-42-40-19-14-13-15-18-10-14-17-19-26-10-11-10-11-8-18-32-40-->25 Wks
07/07/2001 - 2 - 30 - Cross Road (Re-entry 2)
30-47-->2 Wks
28/07/2001 - 16 - 6 - Cross Road (Re-entry 3)
41-30-27-6-8-15-20-27-20-27-24-22-38-37-36-31-->16 Wks
16/02/2002 - 7 - 32 - Cross Road (Re-entry 4)
38-32-42-41-34-32-48-->7 Wks
31/08/2002 - 12 - 6 - Cross Road (Re-entry 5)
49-38-45-24-25-36-33-25-6-16-28-32-->12 Wks
01/02/2003 - 16 - 18 - Cross Road (Re-entry 6)
47-39-32-29-18-30-33-32-33-38-42-42-35-42-26-44-->16 Wks
02/08/2003 - 4 - 32 - Cross Road (Re-entry 7)
46-32-32-38-->4 Wks
10/04/2004 - 1 - 46 - Cross Road (Re-entry 8)
01/10/2005 - 11 - 3 - Cross Road (Re-entry 9)
34-3-15-21-24-19-14-13-26-40-45-->11 Wks
07/01/2006 - 11 - 2 - Cross Road (Re-entry 10)
49-14-12-18-8-6-4-6-7-2-5-8-14-22-20-19-24-22-20-20-19-22-28-27-26-30-14-->27 Wks

[STING2]

Originally posted by Bastian



I mean Dark Side Of The Moon, Back in Black and Queen's greatest hits are always in the top 25 and they are not touring or realising new album

I'd like to see always The Best Of 80-90 in the top 25 just like Dark Side Of The Moon

Queen is actually on tour right now with a new lead singer. Dark Side Of The Moon and Back In Black are simply unusual exceptions. Pink Floyd Echos, their best of, is not in the top 25.

But remember, your point was Bon Jovi and Crossroads, not these other albums.

[Chile]

I don't think should be as hard to figure as you might think:

1980-1990 is a bit uneven.

The bulk of the really big hits came from Joshua Tree, to a lesser extent UF, and then perhaps War(?)

All three of these albums (no, I'm not forgetting Boy, October) have very distinct production values, are complete albums in their own right, and are all worth purchasing. Ergo, most people who listen to these three albums for the first time likely listen to one of them a lot before making that next 80's era u2 purchase. For those who buy these albums, there is little need to buy the greatest hits package. Each album has a distinct identity, and each are classics, but they are most certainly not "more of the same".

The same logic can be applied to the examples of Back in Black and Dark Side of the Moon: these albums have an identity born through more than the mere artist, they are living and breathing examples of what people will identify with with regards to each band. Both albums are absolute classics, and both have slightly less popular siblings (Highway to Hell and The Wall). And, all four albums will always sell well regardless because they are masterpieces.

Queen and Bon Jovi, however, have fewer overall albums than the 3 bands mentioned above, and most of their music sounds pretty much the same from album to album.

By the time Bon Jovi got around to evolving as an artist, he'd already been typecast, and subsequently tossed into a cardboard box with the tassled purses, spandex, and hairspray, and then given away to Goodwill.

Queen suffered an even worse fate. Destined to always be measured by the vocals of Freddy Mercury- a point which is often tediously acknowledged when one is subjected to repeat listening. Queen were always a singles band anyway.

[Bastian]

let's face the truth U2 as for sales is not in the same league of Pink Floyd, AC/DC, Metallica and The Beatles

These bands have always albums in the top 25: Dark Side Of The moon for Pink Floyd, Back in Black for AC/DC, The Black Album for Metallica and 1 for The Beatles.

As for sales U2 are not a mega band like those bands they are simply a medium/big band.

[vaz02]

Originally posted by Bastian
let's face the truth U2 as for sales is not in the same league of Pink Floyd, AC/DC, Metallica and The Beatles

These bands have always albums in the top 25: Dark Side Of The moon for Pink Floyd, Back in Black for AC/DC, The Black Album for Metallica and 1 for The Beatles.

As for sales U2 are not a mega band like those bands they are simply a medium/big band.

metallica cant sell for love or money outside america.

[bsp77]

The bottom line is that when someone wants many bands, they buy a greatest hits. When someone wants Pink Floyd, they buy Dark Side (at least at first). If someone wants U2, they often start making multiple purchases (Best ofs, JT, AB, etc.) and they do not often start at the same place. A single U2 album may not sell as much as single albums by many other artists, but TOTAL artist sales are very high for U2.

U2 is not a "medium/big band"; that is ridiculous.

[STING2]

Originally posted by Bastian
let's face the truth U2 as for sales is not in the same league of Pink Floyd, AC/DC, Metallica and The Beatles

These bands have always albums in the top 25: Dark Side Of The moon for Pink Floyd, Back in Black for AC/DC, The Black Album for Metallica and 1 for The Beatles.

As for sales U2 are not a mega band like those bands they are simply a medium/big band.

Is your real name METFIELD?

U2 has outsold Pink Floyd in many markets around the world. Its only in the United States where Pink Floyd has any real lead over U2 and thats simply by a 13 million margin 57 million for U2 and 70 million for Pink Floyd. In the United Kingdom, where Pink Floyd is from, U2 have outsold Pink Floyd by a substantial margin. The same in Canada as well.

U2 has outsold Metallica in virtually every market on the planet including Metallica's biggest market the United States. Metallica's most recent tour failed to sellout most of its shows, and finished with an average attendance per show in the arena's at around only 13,000. This is in Contrast to U2's VERTIGO tour which is the highest grossing tour of all time! Every VERTIGO show soldout, usually within hours of going on sale.

AC/DC has never done a tour where they GROSSED over $100 million dollars. U2's Vertigo tour will gross over $400 million dollars. As for overall sales, their about even, but most of AC/DC album sales come from a few albums released in the early 1980s.


U2 are more popular than they have ever been in Europe currently, and have had two back to back studio albums sell 10 million plus copies each, well 9 million in the case of HTDAAB, but 12 million in the case of ATYCLB. When was the last time Pink Floyd, AC/DC, and Metallica had two back to back albums sell that much worldwide? The fact is, these three bands primarily sell albums that were released decades ago. Their current albums if they have any don't sell very well comparatively, unlike U2's current albums.


The Beatles are in a league of their own and always will be. They can't be touched by anyone.


You can't judge a bands success simply by a single album that tends to linger on a particular chart in one country. Its often said that those types of albums are more popular than the band itself. This means the albums are recognized at the expense of the rest of the bands material, new or old. Metallica and AC/DC don't sell nearly as many concert tickets, as their catalog album sales suggest that they might be able to, which really nails the above point home. There are a lot of non-fans or very casual fans that buy some of these "Classic" albums one month and move on to something next in the following month.

[andyuk]

i am from UK and to hear someone say AC/DC Metalica and Pink Floyd are mega bands and U2 are not just makes me laugh sooo much! here in UK U2 are just about as big as it gets and the other 3 acts mentioned all combined would still get nowhere near U2's level here in UK!

[Bastian]

ok guys you are right, the fact is that I am fascinated by catalogue sales and I'd really like to see U2 doing well in the catalogue chart but I always see that other bands beat U2 in this chart and I am really envious.

I'd really like to see Best Of 80-90 on the top of catalog chart for ages!

[STING2]

Originally posted by Bastian
ok guys you are right, the fact is that I am fascinated by catalogue sales and I'd really like to see U2 doing well in the catalogue chart but I always see that other bands beat U2 in this chart and I am really envious.

I'd really like to see Best Of 80-90 on the top of catalog chart for ages!

Well, if fans buying Joshua Tree, War, Unforgettable Fire, and Best of 90-00 decided to instead buy Best of 80-90, that disc would remain at the top of the catalog chart indefinitely. You have to remember that U2 catalog sales tend to be more spread out among all of its albums as opposed to being concentrated on one or two albums.

Another thing to consider is that the catalog chart your interested in is just for ONE country, the USA. Most albums that are sold around the world are sold outside of the USA.