NHL Thread
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Magnus Maximus
The Fly
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Sorry its wife who is Canadian - I was referring to the kids origin
But where did he settle down the STL
Magnus Maximus
The Fly
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Whatever, the point is has any US city had half the first rounders'?
Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Certainly not St Louis. Unless 6 out of 31 is half in the new math.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Sounds to me like you’re mistaking Keith Tkachuck for Brett Hull.
Yes, they’re from St. Louis. This we are not denying. They played freaking peewee hockey with the Blues program, much like my comments about Jakob Chychrun and Shayne Gostisbehere in Florida. All of these players left their programs to join either the CHL major junior system, the USNDT, or the NCAA.
What’s annoying is I didn’t deny this but you’re just Wikipedia’ing facts.
You made some comment about taking the Tkachucks out of the draft... my point was about almost every Missouri born or raised player.
Unlike in Mass. and in Minnesota, players are not going to play directly for their high school teams and get drafted. Great example: Nick Bjugstad actually turned down USNDT and didn’t go OHL, and was still Minnesota’s Mr. Hockey and was drafted in the 1st round. Hockey development is deep seeded in Minnesota and does not require a national level supplementation, similarly to how football development is deep seeded in Florida and Georgia.
St. Louis had an anomaly year, aided by echoes of NHL talent/former Blues offspring.
This isn’t a poor look at St. Louis hockey. Clearly it did well for the aforementioned reasons. But to think St. Louis is now somehow stands up to the Canadian USA is silly.
Magnus Maximus
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Hold on kids reading is fun!!!!
If you bothered to read any of my posts, and comprehended them, you would see that I mentioned several times it was out of the 12 American born players- 5 were from the STL. So please understand the use of context.
Sorry you struggle with reading comprehension. It must be painful for you
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
I read them and comprehended them and replied and you failed to read and comprehend my posts in return. So you’re even.
Magnus Maximus
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Now on the USNDT, those comments are plain silly, so my daughter played for the soccer OPD program, does that make her from Colorado Springs, or J den Cox wrestled for the US national team, does that make him from CS, no it makes him from Columbia MO. What about Spencer mango who wrestled for the Greco OPD that's in Michigan as well, does that make him from Michigan no he still is from STL.
Magnus Maximus
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If you understood how the national teams are developed in various sports they have centralized locations, it doesn't make you from there. From National training sites in Michigan, Colorado, etc, etc
Magnus Maximus
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are you Hewson as well? Or do you just answer for him.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
They’re not plain silly, you just didn’t listen. And you clearly don’t understand how USNDT works. In fact, I’ve been saying the acronym wrong, but that’s because I’ve been saying the acronym for what the team actually is. It’s supposed to be US NTDP, but in reality it’s a specific team which is why I always incorrectly type it out. Two teams, actually. In the USHL.
It’s basically where youth talent goes.
Except in places like Minnesota or Massachusetts, youth talent can get away perfectly fine with staying where they are.
That’s absolutely not true in St. Louis. The talent level is not the same. 2016 was an anomaly year, supplemented by echo talent from former all star Blues.
You keep ignoring these points. I’m not sure what to tell you.
Yes I’m very well aware, thank you.
You attempted to make a statement that “St. Louis doesn’t make a lot of NHLers but they make really good ones” or some shit like that. Except it’s you who doesn’t understand how their development works in the first place - there’s little evidence to suggest St. Louis had much to do with the talent development of most of these players.
Yes
Magnus Maximus
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First look up the AAA Blues program, there alumni is pretty impressive.
Second: All sports have ODPs or National teams sites, it doesn't change where the kids come from. From Soccer to Wrestling, track to Hockey, gymnastics to weightlifting, its just they way it works
Third you said the NCAA: well that's even dumber, you can't control where kids go to college at. My Son wrestled at NIU it doesn't make him from Chicago. We have SEC football; do all the players at Mizzou come from Missouri- No they don't actually maybe only about 20% do.
OP
OP
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
This reminds me of the time we argued about the Chicago Wolves 
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
I understand how hockey development works. Better than you do. I don’t need you to tell me to look up the junior blues. All NHL teams have junior development programs. St. Louis’s is absolutely not notable in any way. Many NHLers who played in and retired in St. Louis had their kids in that program. Shock shock. No, the AAA blues do not have a “pretty impressive” alumni.
To your “second” and “third” points, I’ll just explain how hockey development works for you. Around the age of 15, a junior player will he scouted into major junior leagues. The CHL (Canadian Hockey League, composed of the OHL, WHL, and QMJHL) is the top development flight. That’s what’s commonly referred to as “major junior.” This is where the cream of the crop go. Americans will move to Canada. Europeans will move to Canada. Russians will move to Canada. The CHL is to the NHL as college football is to the NFL. The age ranges in this league are 16-21, though a CHL player becomes minor-professional-eligible at 20, so by then it is expected that a player be in the AHL.
Back in Europe and Russia, sports clubs are more traditionally structured. The leagues are all intertwined, and there’s nothing stopping a 16 year old from playing at the top or second flight if they’re good enough (some age restrictions do apply). Typically speaking, drafting a euro or Russian player means more training to adjust to the North American style, but less to training them how to play against pros. This is why loads of players who are gold enough will flock to the CHL in their teens.
College hockey, on the other hand, is seen as traditionally inferior to the CHL. The NCAA is the routine American development path, which comes with the significant setback in that a player won’t be free to switch to a pro game until 21 or 22 years old - at which point they’re typically eligible for shaking off their designated team restrictions as a free agent and signing elsewhere (and heading straight to the AHL or ECHL on most accounts). CHL players cannot enter the NCAA system (against NCAA rules), so lots of American talent will still go through the NCAA system if only because not every 15 year old wants to uproot their life to go for the CHL.
So that brings us to the fucking point. Who goes to the NCAA? Americans. What do they do from the age of 16-18 while their Canadian counterparts are playing with the world’s top talent? They play junior hockey. Where? The USNTDP. Well, unless their location already features premier junior hockey. Oh, I don’t know, like in Minnesota. Or Massachusetts. Or not St. Louis. Or definitely not St. Louis.
I mean dude your very premise of promoting St. Louis as a hockey development site where they make few but great players is totally obnoxious when you try to use the Tkachuck kids as evidence. What, Stastny kids next? Did it ever occur to you that maybe they were born into royalty? Like, when Pavel Bure’s kid is ready to become an NHLer do you think Floridians will start calling him a product of Florida? Homegrown?
Anyways. US hockey development has grown a lot in the last decade. Places like St. Louis have seen hockey development grow, owing thanks to the NHL teams in the area and their former players setting up their lives there.
You still have absolutely no ground to stand on regarding the productivity or quality of St. Louis hockey development. It just isn’t there dude.
Magnus Maximus
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You made one really valid point. The way the European Club system works certainly does better prepare youth athletes for more advanced leagues. That is why we lag behind them in soccer.
BoMac
Self-righteous bullshitter
This reminds me of the time we argued about the Chicago Wolves
But, seriously, they’re way better than the Blackhawks and could beat most, of not all, NHL teams.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
What’s the story there?
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
Not to neglect the pink elephant in the room wearing a black thong, I've never "ignored" someone faster. 
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I comprehend just fine thank you.
You said "half the first rounders" not "half the American born first rounders" (which I imagine if I felt the urge to look, which I don't, there's a very good chance in some other years that answer would be a firm yes for the likes of the Twin Cites)
Again, you cherry picked one round in one year to exaggerate your premise about STL being the new cradle of hockey, so when you get a reply that undermines your inane premise by answering your question exactly as it is asked, you shouldn't be surprised.
Maybe learn to play well with others and post/reply in a civil manner (not starting you posting history out with "SUCK IT CHICAGO" and such) and we can engage in a normal, intelligent conversation. You get more flies with honey than vinegar (especially in Missouri I hear)
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Cause they are Raised By Wolves.
OP
OP
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
A couple of years ago some rando came in here telling us all how the Chicago Wolves (the Blackhawks AHL team) was better than any team in the NHL at them time... Hilarity ensued.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Pride can be a dangerous thing.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
So can PITNOL.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Hockey had a thing today.
OP
OP
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
it was an ok thing I guess...
That offer sheet from Montreal seemed borderline collusion though.
That offer sheet from Montreal seemed borderline collusion though.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
the hurricanes were colluding with the habs so that carolina would end up spending more than they wanted to on a shorter deal than they wanted...?
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Yeah, it’s not like a player is obliged to accept an offer sheet. If Aho didn’t want the money he would’ve rejected it. Carolina didn’t get a steal. That was the money Aho was asking for. Carolina wasn’t meeting him that high.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
aho better be giving his agent a big bonus out of that money. by the looks of it the agent played both teams like a fiddle.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
I dunno. It’s the new norm. Did Aho play like a top 30 player? Yes. Did he get paid like one? Prematurely... but yes. Elite payment just went up.
Jerry Dunk
Refugee
That is literally the entire purpose of restricted free agency. I don't think anyone there did anything wrong.
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