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Old 08-29-2021, 08:44 PM   #601
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Well there's a difference there in that Woody was accused of something that was never taken to court (and would likely get thrown out considering Mia Farrow's own behavior and how dubious the "evidence" is).

Kanye didn't have to be accused, it's all the shit that's come from his own mouth. If Woody starts advocating that people molest children, I'll stop watching his films.
I think you're selective depending on who the artist is. I've seen you defend Woody Allen and Prince but say a blanket "believe women" when artists or people you don't like are accused.

That's not an attack on you, by the way. I do it as well. I'm doing it right now with Kanye. It's hypocritical, but that's life. There are artists, public figures, sports stars we excuse somewhat because we like them, and others we cancel without a second thought because we don't care for them.

I wouldn't listen to Donda if reviews from people I trust hadn't been positive. I haven't listened to any record he's put out since Ye because even Kanye fans said they were shit. The reviews for Donda so far seem to suggest it's his best in a long time, so I wanna hear it.
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Old 08-29-2021, 08:47 PM   #602
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I wouldn't listen to Donda if reviews from people I trust hadn't been positive. I haven't listened to any record he's put out since Ye because even Kanye fans said they were shit. The reviews for Donda so far seem to suggest it's his best in a long time, so I wanna hear it.
You haven't heard Kids See Ghosts? Definitely set aside 25 minutes for that. It's a wholesome and heartwarming collab with a focus on battling mental illness through family and friendships. Probably has the most socially conscious Kanye verse in years on Cudi Montage.

Jesus Is King is a big time skip. Don't bother.
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Old 08-29-2021, 08:55 PM   #603
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I think you're selective depending on who the artist is. I've seen you defend Woody Allen and Prince but say a blanket "believe women" when artists or people you don't like are accused.
It's not selective, I thought I explained the difference but apparently not. Prince can't have his day in court because his supposed victim didn't share her story until 5 years after his death. Woody could still be sued in civil court but for some mysterious reason the Farrow family chooses not to do so, instead choosing to allow him to be tried in the court of public opinion, over and over again, and trying to shame actors in Hollywood who have worked with him, even though he was never convicted of anything. It's despicable.

In both of these cases, we are talking about a single accuser, and no history record of abuse or harassment. This is not the same thing as perpetrators like Manson, Weinstein, Cosby, etc., all of whom have been accused by multiple people. Yes, my instinct is to believe women. When one of them is Sinead O'Connor (whose music I love, incidentally), who has had a history of mental health issues and contradicting herself time and time again over the years, sorry if I'm skeptical.

As I said, Kanye isn't accused of anything, he's been sharing his vile thoughts for several years now. We're not debating whether or not he said or did something.
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Old 08-29-2021, 09:45 PM   #604
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Personally, the only musician I’ve ever enjoyed that crossed a personal line in the sand was the singer from Lostprophets. Great times in my late teens but every memory is now tainted.

I’ll get around to Donda at some point, maybe, but there’s more than enough to occupy my time right now and interest is low. Kind of like new Woody Allen films.


Ooooof I haven’t heard the name lostprophets in a hot minute
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Old 08-30-2021, 10:10 PM   #605
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I am about 17 hours in to Donda, and it's easily his best since TLOP.
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Old 08-31-2021, 12:06 AM   #606
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My two cents: Kanye crossed my line in the sand. I'll listen to his other stuff, but not this.

I have few people who have crossed that line. It's basically him, R. Kelly and Kevin Spacey.

OK, and Chris Brown.
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Old 08-31-2021, 03:13 AM   #607
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I have tried so hard to divorce what my head knows about some artists and music I really enjoy but it’s a constant struggle with artists like Ryan Adams, because I think his self titled and Prisoner are two of the best albums of the last decade. But I couldn’t tell you the last time I listened to them. And when I do it’s on headphones just because I’m embarrassed to be listening to him. Or Michael Jackson, since Thriller is one of my favorite albums of the 80s. Or Roman Polanski films (though I do watch Rosemary’s Baby around Halloween every year).

With Kanye in particular it hasn’t been as much of a struggle because it’s been a long, slow disinterest in everything he’s done since My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. I may listen to Donda at some point, but if Kids See Ghost is any indication (I don’t think I’ve listened to it yet, and if I did I don’t remember it), it’ll either be awhile or I’m assuming it won’t make an impact on me.
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Old 08-31-2021, 08:22 AM   #608
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I have tried so hard to divorce what my head knows about some artists and music I really enjoy but it’s a constant struggle with artists like Ryan Adams, because I think his self titled and Prisoner are two of the best albums of the last decade. But I couldn’t tell you the last time I listened to them. And when I do it’s on headphones just because I’m embarrassed to be listening to him. Or Michael Jackson, since Thriller is one of my favorite albums of the 80s. Or Roman Polanski films (though I do watch Rosemary’s Baby around Halloween every year).

With Kanye in particular it hasn’t been as much of a struggle because it’s been a long, slow disinterest in everything he’s done since My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. I may listen to Donda at some point, but if Kids See Ghost is any indication (I don’t think I’ve listened to it yet, and if I did I don’t remember it), it’ll either be awhile or I’m assuming it won’t make an impact on me.


I like a lot of Kanye’s stuff but lost interest around TLOP. I will definitely give this a listen at some point regardless of his public persona but would not fork over $100+ to see him live.

It’s funny you mention Ryan Adams. After he got put in the penalty box, he still got to put his new records out… and they kinda sucked. Probably the least compelling work he’s done, whereas Prisoner was the best thing he had put out since Cold Roses. At least Kanye’s going down in interesting flames.
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Old 08-31-2021, 08:34 AM   #609
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Michael Jackson’s verdict is hazy. Unless something has changed there.
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Old 08-31-2021, 09:07 AM   #610
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Michael Jackson’s verdict is hazy. Unless something has changed there.


You’re still going to hear Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough at weddings, along with Rock With You, Beat it and Billie Jean on the radio. They’re part of the pop firmament. People who were alive in the 70s/80s associate that stuff more with a time in their lives than the guy who sang them. I’m hoping the Thriller 4K remaster comes out at some point, it’s a historical document.

(For the record, I believe the victims.)
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Old 08-31-2021, 01:19 PM   #611
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I really don’t like the new assumptive statement of “believing the ‘victims’” - this reminds me of the 2020 primaries where there was a tit for tat between Warren and Sanders and a he said she said came up and someone here proclaimed “believe women.”

Believing the victim doesn’t mean just disregarding a lack of evidence. It means stop assuming they’re lying because they don’t have evidence. Certainly nothing to do with two politicians arguing of Course.

In the case of Michael Jackson, he actually has people who defend him. Including ones that were children at the time. Now, that doesn’t mean his potential victims are not victims, but it’s very hard to go one way or the other with contradicting facts.
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Old 08-31-2021, 03:49 PM   #612
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“Alleged victims,” better?

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Spare me.
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Old 08-31-2021, 04:43 PM   #613
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I’m hardly defending Michael Jackson as a fan of his music. I really don’t care about him or his music. But I do think it stinks for fans. That one is as strange and uncertain as ever.
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Old 08-31-2021, 05:07 PM   #614
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I was/am a fan of his music.
I don’t think his influence can be denied.
Probably one of the greatest entertainers ever.
A global superstar, which is hard to fathom now in a splintered pop culture.

But I’m perfectly fine saying he was likely a garbage person in private, probably a criminal sexual abuser. We saw what he wanted us to see up until 1993.
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Old 09-02-2021, 02:31 PM   #615
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WAKE UP BABE

NEW ABBA





Goodness, Don't Shut Me Down is fantastic.
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Old 09-02-2021, 03:28 PM   #616
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I'm in love.
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Old 09-02-2021, 03:57 PM   #617
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Insane. Agnetha and Frida sound the same 40 years later. Such a strange and fun little treat.
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Old 09-02-2021, 04:00 PM   #618
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Random Music Talk CXXIX: Gump attends a concert

I’m stunned, to be honest, that they still sound good. For their age, this is a real gift.
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Old 09-02-2021, 06:05 PM   #619
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I mean, ABBA's far from my musical wheelhouse, but as a kid their music was everywhere so its ingrained, and this new stuff sounds like it was recorded in the 70's. They don't sound like they've aged at all.
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Old 09-02-2021, 06:31 PM   #620
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I will slightly disagree, I think they have that slightly more mature, deeper vocal thing going on that happens to some women as they get older and it's only made them sound better, to my ears.
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