Ashley, you have ruined my life !

[LemonMelon]

I just don't respect dishonesty. In the context of a mutually agreed upon monogamous relationship, the person screwing around without being honest about their needs is ultimately disrespecting their partner and keeping them from the freedom that they experience through dishonesty. That's fucked up.

Still not OK with a hack being a form of justice here.

[Galeongirl]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

and i'd say it's both more and less complicated.

i do agree that cheating -- where there's deliberate deception under the expectation of monogamy -- is an asshole thing to do to someone.

Absolutely, there's more to every single case. I was just over simplifying the way I see this, seeing as you mentioned how you found the female views interesting.

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

I'd say it's substantially more complicated than that. Sex is just one aspect of a mature relationship. One can be dissatisfied sexually and quite happy with everything else going on.

While I would agree that the deceptiveness involved with cheating suggests serious underlying problems, it's wildly judgmental to make blanket statements about adulterers being assholes. None of us know what the hell is really going on in any of these relationships that Ashley Madison has supposedly blighted. As a rule I think looking in from the outside and critiquing a relationship is irresponsible.

Agreed. The thing isn't the sex behind the partner's back, it's the going behind their back aspect. The lying, the sneakiness, that's the big filth. And that most people would rather cheat than actually talk about what's wrong in the relationship.. might be the autism in me speaking but I really, really do not understand why people choose to ruin their lives instead of communicating.. it's REALLY not that hard.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Galeongirl

Absolutely, there's more to every single case. I was just over simplifying the way I see this, seeing as you mentioned how you found the female views interesting.

what i find interesting is that women tend to think that people cheat because there's something wrong with a relationship, someone is unfulfilled somehow.

sometimes, people cheat for no real reason. that the stars aligned, an opportunity presented itself, and someone didn't use their best judgment. it could be as superficial. i think many women find that scary. the lack of psychological complexity behind a lot of it.

italics because i want to underscore the fact that i'm speaking in generalities.

there's a premeditation, however, to AM that makes it seem like these people are kind of shitty, in a basic kind of way.

[deep]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

what i find interesting is that women tend to think that people cheat because there's something wrong with a relationship, someone is unfulfilled somehow.

sometimes, people cheat for no real reason. that the stars aligned, an opportunity presented itself, and someone didn't use their best judgment. it could be as superficial. i think many women find that scary. the lack of psychological complexity behind a lot of it.

italics because i want to underscore the fact that i'm speaking in generalities.

there's a premeditation, however, to AM that makes it seem like these people are kind of shitty, in a basic kind of way.

that is it exactly!!

it is one thing if a person is out of town on a business trip, has a few drinks, has a fling, and has remorse. people are human, relationships should be built on trust and intimacy.

people should work, communicate within their relationships
not go to A M put up a list of things you want that you might find on a menu at a brothel.

once people start going outside of a relationship, is their married sex going to get better, or seem even more boring, unsatisfying. this is an abandonment of the partner for selfish reasons.
On A M one is continuously, and repeatedly affirming a lack of caring for the partner and this is so much worse that the typical slip up in a marriage that might be salvageable.

[Irvine511]

it's also interesting how "dating" apps have entered the picture and perhaps changed the landscape.

i know the gay ones, and my hetero friends talk about Tinder. i assume it's the same -- someone has a thumbnail and a short profile and a distance. you chat. it goes from there.

it's likely that the relative anonymity of such an app actually allows people to be more honest with their desires and what they are looking for that night, or that hour. many people, men and women, may just be in the mood for some NSA sex IRL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAfxs0IDeMs

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by deep

I probably should not do a drive by post without reading the last few pages

but again, I have little sympathy for any A M users. I don't consider them victims, they are dishonest people that are having their dishonesty exposed.

Being in the closet about being an adulterer, is not the same thing as being in the closet about one's sexuality

But you see, that IS the issue. It IS the same thing... just not in the way you described.

My issue with all of this and my dislike for the gloating in the media over this entire episode is not because I want to protect the adulterers of the world (even though 90% of the accounts on the site were either BOTs or hacked emails)... it's the act of hacking and exposing confidential information it's self... no matter what it's about.

There are hackers looking at all the attention this is getting, how celebrated it almost is, and they'll try to copycat with another site, or app; be it Snapchat, or tinder or grindr or whatever. And then how many more people's private lives will be thrust out into the open? How many people will be shamed because of something they do in the privacy of their own home with consulting adults? How many people in the closet will be thrust out into the public eye before they're ready?

We shrug at this one because it's dealing with, for the most part, assholes. But we should be defending the assholes, because the next one down the line could very well be much different.

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i agree with all of this. though i want to point out that i didn't say that all these people on AM were assholes

I wasn't referring to you specifically there, but rather the tone of the general reaction to the AM hack.

Originally Posted by Galeongirl

Agreed. The thing isn't the sex behind the partner's back, it's the going behind their back aspect. The lying, the sneakiness, that's the big filth. And that most people would rather cheat than actually talk about what's wrong in the relationship.. might be the autism in me speaking but I really, really do not understand why people choose to ruin their lives instead of communicating.. it's REALLY not that hard.

I am in total agreement that people should be up-front about their needs and anxieties with their significant other. I think there are also cases where a relationship is crumbling and someone just needs the confidence of being with someone else before they move on, or realize they need to move on.

Those cases might be in the extreme minority, I don't know, but they do mean we can't paint with too broad of a brush. I'm just hesitant to say that everyone on AM went in with the intention of betraying their significant other on a long-term basis, as some comments on this issue have suggested.

[MrPryck2U]

Been reading all of the posts here. Just a couple of thoughts:

-Hacking is wrong regardless of who it is affecting.

-In regard to cheating, I've always operated by The Golden Rule. Treat others the way you wish to be treated. So if you wouldn't wish to be cheated on by someone you supposedly love, then don't cheat on someone you supposedly love. Have I thought about cheating or fantasized about? Yes. But, I've never acted on those thoughts. Just as I've thought about murdering someone, but never acted on that either.

[deep]

so it was not hackers

Ashley Madison hack was an inside job: John McAfee - The Times of India

[Galeongirl]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

what i find interesting is that women tend to think that people cheat because there's something wrong with a relationship, someone is unfulfilled somehow.

sometimes, people cheat for no real reason. that the stars aligned, an opportunity presented itself, and someone didn't use their best judgment. it could be as superficial. i think many women find that scary. the lack of psychological complexity behind a lot of it.

italics because i want to underscore the fact that i'm speaking in generalities.

there's a premeditation, however, to AM that makes it seem like these people are kind of shitty, in a basic kind of way.

But even those cheating for the heck of it have reasoning behind it. That's why I specified that either it's issues in the relationship, or they're assholes. Sure they'll have their reasons, there always are reasons why people cheat. If they are just being impulsive, that's their reason. I'm not saying it's a good or bad reason or whatever.. but there always is a reason why people do what they do.

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

I wasn't referring to you specifically there, but rather the tone of the general reaction to the AM hack.



I am in total agreement that people should be up-front about their needs and anxieties with their significant other. I think there are also cases where a relationship is crumbling and someone just needs the confidence of being with someone else before they move on, or realize they need to move on.

Those cases might be in the extreme minority, I don't know, but they do mean we can't paint with too broad of a brush. I'm just hesitant to say that everyone on AM went in with the intention of betraying their significant other on a long-term basis, as some comments on this issue have suggested.

Yeah in some cases the relationship has been dead for years and they need to cut the cord. That too is a part of communication, but apparently people are afraid to say things when they need to be said.

[BoMac]

Almost None of the Women in the Ashley Madison Database Ever Used the Site

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by BoMac

Almost None of the Women in the Ashley Madison Database Ever Used the Site

this is the truth:

When you look at the evidence, it’s hard to deny that the overwhelming majority of men using Ashley Madison weren’t having affairs. They were paying for a fantasy.

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

this is the truth:

I'm going to bring up Amy Schumer again: she was interviewing a phone sex worker, and the person said that the most common persona she was asked to adopt was of a girlfriend or wife just chatting with the caller about day-to-day life. Speaks to the crushing loneliness so many people experience on a daily basis.