Ordinary Love Discussion (Part 2)

[Headache in a Suitcase]

One reason Bono's lyrics may seem more awkward in the 00's and on is because they are often far more personal. This started on "Pop", especially with "Mofo". But this very personal, introspective aspect came on strong with ATYCLB.

In the 80's, Bono wrote more about things, events or poepole. It is easy to be more poetic when writing about something that everyone can see and experience. Also, he wrote more abstractly, loving words like "kiss", "sky", "kneel", "colors", etc. These very general words keep something abstract and are relatively easy to use in a rhyming couplet.

However, after almost 15 years of writing that way, Bono started to change. AB did have some personal aspects, but not necessarily about him. Often the songs were regarding Edge. And even on AB, some of Bono's favorite words slipped in (especially on MW).

With ATYCLB, much of this stopped. Bono still used rhyming couplets, and sometimes had some fun such as "a mole in a hole", but his lyrics became more relatable. They were no longer abstract notions or events. Even the "I and I in the sky" part refers to himself and God.

And because of these more personal introspective elements, I feel the lyrics changed from "sky", "kneel", "colors" to some unusual terminology that doesn't always make for the optimal or most majestic of couplets. This may be why we have phrases like "heavy as a truck". I'm happy to ignore half a couplet for the far more powerful lyrics that remain in these songs, as well as the music and passionate vocals behind them.

That's probably the best explanation I've read yet.

 

[Irvine511]

Even the "I and I in the sky" part refers to himself and God.

i think it's about sex. but sex and God are often about the same thing for Bono.

i think Elevation is one of their dirtiest songs, actually.

 

[Nick66]

i think Elevation is one of their dirtiest songs, actually.

Well actually, that makes Elevation is more of a Rorschach test.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I and I is a common expression in Rastafarian meaning the oneness between a person and God.

 

[Nick66]

One reason Bono's lyrics may seem more awkward in the 00's and on is because they are often far more personal. This started on "Pop", especially with "Mofo". But this very personal, introspective aspect came on strong with ATYCLB.

In the 80's, Bono wrote more about things, events or poepole. It is easy to be more poetic when writing about something that everyone can see and experience. Also, he wrote more abstractly, loving words like "kiss", "sky", "kneel", "colors", etc. These very general words keep something abstract and are relatively easy to use in a rhyming couplet.

However, after almost 15 years of writing that way, Bono started to change. AB did have some personal aspects, but not necessarily about him. Often the songs were regarding Edge. And even on AB, some of Bono's favorite words slipped in (especially on MW).

With ATYCLB, much of this stopped. Bono still used rhyming couplets, and sometimes had some fun such as "a mole in a hole", but his lyrics became more relatable. They were no longer abstract notions or events. Even the "I and I in the sky" part refers to himself and God.

And because of these more personal introspective elements, I feel the lyrics changed from "sky", "kneel", "colors" to some unusual terminology that doesn't always make for the optimal or most majestic of couplets. This may be why we have phrases like "heavy as a truck". I'm happy to ignore half a couplet for the far more powerful lyrics that remain in these songs, as well as the music and passionate vocals behind them.

That's interesting, and I think there may be some truth to this, I'd need to give it more thought, it's certainly worth considering. However, if Bono's lyrics are more "awkward" because he's writing more personal stuff...well, that's on him as an artist. To the extent writing about personal stuff makes his lyrics suffer (and again I'm not sure if I agree), he needs find a way to express himself better if he want's to write about those things.

Now this presupposes that 1) his writing has suffered in the 00's and; 2) your premise that this is a result of his writing more about personal stuff is correct. I'm not entirely convinced of either...he's written some great stuff in the 00's, both personal and the more anthem/traditional U2 stuff. And he's written some crap stuff of both types as well. I'm not sure there's really a connection between the subject matter and the quality of the lyric. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's as good a theory as any, I'm just not sure. It's hard for me to get a handle on whether his lyrics just aren't as good anymore, or that the songs in general aren't as strong so we're noticing the weakness of the individual parts more.

As an aside, I'd point out that some of his most criticised lyrics from the 00's come from NLOTH, in which he supposedly was writing in the 3rd person, and not necessarily from his own POV. So there's that.

 

[ozeeko]

That's interesting, and I think there may be some truth to this, I'd need to give it more thought, it's certainly worth considering. However, if Bono's lyrics are more "awkward" because he's writing more personal stuff...well, that's on him as an artist. To the extent writing about personal stuff makes his lyrics suffer (and again I'm not sure if I agree), he needs find a way to express himself better if he want's to write about those things.

Now this presupposes that 1) his writing has suffered in the 00's and; 2) your premise that this is a result of his writing more about personal stuff is correct. I'm not entirely convinced of either...he's written some great stuff in the 00's, both personal and the more anthem/traditional U2 stuff. And he's written some crap stuff of both types as well. I'm not sure there's really a connection between the subject matter and the quality of the lyric. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's as good a theory as any, I'm just not sure. It's hard for me to get a handle on whether his lyrics just aren't as good anymore, or that the songs in general aren't as strong so we're noticing the weakness of the individual parts more.

As an aside, I'd point out that some of his most criticised lyrics from the 00's come from NLOTH, in which he supposedly was writing in the 3rd person, and not necessarily from his own POV. So there's that.

I agree that it's not that simple.

In fact, I'd say that (IMO) Bono seems to write lyrics that resonate when he's telling a story, whether it be fictional, autobiographical, whatever...

I've said in the past that his so-called "personal" lyrics come off sounding less inspired and to be honest, kinda shallow, not because I hate personal lyrics or because it's too easy or because it's not interesting etc...but because it just (once again, IMO) doesn't resonate.

For example, the song SYCMIOYO..I'm not saying Bono didn't put his heart into the lyric, or that he was exploiting a personal tragedy, that's ridiculous...but something about it just doesn't come together...it just doesn't carry much weight. Lines like "we fight all the time, you and I, it's alright, we're the same soul"...sure it's simple and direct, which isn't a bad thing, but those lines plus pretty much the rest of the song don't give me any insight into the relationship and the loss of it. It doesn't sell the emotion because to me that sounds exactly like what it's trying to accomplish.

Now the song "Dirty Day" isn't the greatest song of all time or anything, it's not a classic U2 song to me, although I do enjoy it. And maybe he is writing from another point-of-view...however I do get the feeling that he's purging something. That through this character he is confronting some demons from his past. And on "The First Time" I always got the sense that in the last verse he is (through a famous parable) confronting his guilt about running away from his widowed father. And the song "One", while not being explicitly about his father, always struck me as an argument he was having with the old man.

SOmetimes it is good to be explicit and to cut right to the core. I think Mofo's middle 8 proves that. Sometimes it's great to just get it out.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say, I guess, is that these "personal lyrics" don't always yield the best results, maybe because it's too conscious of an approach. Perhaps losing himself in a character brings a bit of truth out, more than actually tackling the subject directly.

 

[The Disciple]

The Magic Marker line doesn't work for me mainly because of the melody. He sings the line differently, and it has this really "serious" tone, as if to say stop having fun, this is the "profound" moment...whereas the rest of the song is a gorgeous breezy pop tune that succeeds at being anthemic while avoiding sounding grandstanding and sanctimonious. I'm actually really struck by how effortless and catchy the chorus is. For the first time in a while, Bono has picked a melody that compliments each and every syllable and also compliments the message. SOmetimes it's best to just cut to the point, and the concept of "if we cannot feel ordinary love" is a strangely powerful one. It's like the theme Bono's been searching for over the last 2 albums. Behind all the bullshit slogans it all comes down to this. If we, as humanity, can't feel for our enemies, then we are basically screwed. And if we can, then there is hope. I don't understand the Coldplay comparison. I think the chorus sounds very modern, like something the band Fun or Arcade Fire or Foster the People would come up with. It's modern but also very classic u2. A perfect marriage of old and new. I like the song a lot.

Love.

 

[gvox]

I and I is a common expression in Rastafarian meaning the oneness between a person and God.

Yes Iyah.

 

[Thrillhouse]

i think it's about sex.

how so?

 

[LemonMelon]

Anyway, what I'm trying to say, I guess, is that these "personal lyrics" don't always yield the best results, maybe because it's too conscious of an approach. Perhaps losing himself in a character brings a bit of truth out, more than actually tackling the subject directly.

I can agree with that. Achtung Baby is as insightful as it is because there's a small degree of separation between Bono and the subject (Edge and his disintegrating marriage). He's an outsider that can more objectively speak to the rest of us about these incredibly heartbreaking realities.

 

[Irvine511]

how so?

It's about accessing/witnessing the divine through sexual connection.

The mole digging in a hole (digging up my soul) is a sex metaphor (you can imagine which organs are the mole and the hole), but the bigger idea is that an act thought of as dirty or base is revealed to be a way to transcendence.

Sex is one connection, in a live setting, it's the connection with the audience. That's how we become "I and I" -- the barriers that separate you from me are broken down (two flesh become one, audience and performer become one).

If you look in the Flanagan book, they talk about how things that seem to be opposite -- sex and God, plastic and soul -- might actually be the same, like opposite sides of a coin, one cannot exist without the other.

 

[Yahweh]

Nice to see the usual crew here - negative comments about the new track and all, reminds me of the good old days.

I think some of you should take some time to reflect upon what made you a fan of the band in the first place. Upon thinking about it you may find some answers you have been looking for.

Everybody is different - think back to the first song you heard from U2, it will be different for everybody depending on when they became a fan, think of the feeling that it gave to you. If you go back and listen to it today likely you won't have that same feeling. Too much of one band is never a good thing.

Would your opinion of this track change if you didn't know who was singing it?

If not I would suggest moving on to music that is currently interesting to you because the days writing about abstract subjects are long since over for U2 - ever since they "Chopped down the Joshua Tree".

I would not be too serious about this track - it was written for a soundtrack for a person that all of them respect very much. Over analyzing the track really is not serving any purpose.

I wouldn't call many of The Beatles song's to have amazing lyrics but what they did have is always had a great hook with a great melody, and in my opinion that is what this track has as well, simple and effective.

That's what Pop/rock music that aims to be listened to is all about. I would challenge you to find any band worth their weight on the world scene that actually puts lyrics at the highest priority when writing 99 percent of their material.

Just my opinion and I am happy to be hearing some new music from U2. Whether you like this track or not - hopefully you will agree that this music is better then no music from the band.

 

[ozeeko]

Love.

I....love you too?

HAHA GET IT?

 

[ozeeko]

It's about accessing/witnessing the divine through sexual connection.

The mole digging in a hole (digging up my soul) is a sex metaphor (you can imagine which organs are the mole and the hole), but the bigger idea is that an act thought of as dirty or base is revealed to be a way to transcendence.

Sex is one connection, in a live setting, it's the connection with the audience. That's how we become "I and I" -- the barriers that separate you from me are broken down (two flesh become one, audience and performer become one).

If you look in the Flanagan book, they talk about how things that seem to be opposite -- sex and God, plastic and soul -- might actually be the same, like opposite sides of a coin, one cannot exist without the other.

I don't think excavation is the best way to describe the act of love. Nor is mole a good euphemism for penis.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

In the 80's, Bono wrote more about things, events or people.

Also, he wrote more abstractly, loving words like "kiss", "sky", "kneel", "colors", etc.

However, after almost 15 years of writing that way, Bono started to change.

With ATYCLB, much of this stopped.

And because of these more personal introspective elements, I feel the lyrics changed from "sky", "kneel", "colors"

Ummmm...

Your love is teaching me how to kneel

Blessings not just for the ones who kneel

I kneel 'cause I want you some more

I will not forsake the colors that you bring

After the flood all the colors came out

Let's see colors that have never been seen

I took your kiss on the spray of the new line star

Love left a window in the skies

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I feel like he started using these words, that you've strangely singled out as words he's moved away from, even more starting with ATYCLB and moving forward.

 

[mama cass]

I and I is a common expression in Rastafarian meaning the oneness between a person and God.

i always thought that was what it was referring to as well

 

[gvox]

I don't think excavation is the best way to describe the act of love. Nor is mole a good euphemism for penis.

Maybe not love, but sex? Sure. In at least one genre Im pretty familiar with "dig out her hole" (and variations) is an often used descriptor.

Not sure about the mole part tho..

 

[Galeongirl]

I don't think excavation is the best way to describe the act of love. Nor is mole a good euphemism for penis.

Well.. one could attribute the first one to a certain sexual act performed on a woman...

 

[last unicorn]

how so?

Because Bono said so?

I remember reading somewhere that he wrote the song in about 4 minutes and said that 4 minutes aren't exactly the greatest thing when you think about sex.

I don't think excavation is the best way to describe the act of love. Nor is mole a good euphemism for penis.

What? Why not? I always think of a penis whenever I see a mole.

 

[jeevey]

how so?

I hope this is ironic.

Maybe not love, but sex?

Exactly. One of the few times Bono is writing about the plain old thing.

What? Why not? I always think of a penis whenever I see a mole.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Moral of the thread, Bono considers his little Paulie to be mole-like.

 

[Irvine511]

I don't think excavation is the best way to describe the act of love. Nor is mole a good euphemism for penis.

It may not be good, per se, but I think that's one way in which those lyrics are intended.

Much like "if you wnt to kiss the sky better learn how to kneel" could mean that you need to be humble to do great things, or to perform cunnilingus.

 

[gvox]

O I tot he wuz sayin "If u wanna kiss THIS GUY, you betta learn how 2 kneel" .....

 

[Nick66]

Much like "if you wnt to kiss the sky better learn how to kneel" could mean that you need to be humble to do great things, or to perform cunnilingus.

Funny, almost every woman I've known subscribes to the latter interpretation.

 

[jeevey]

O I tot he wuz sayin "If u wanna kiss THIS GUY, you betta learn how 2 kneel" .....

Take it to PLEBA, dude.

 

[last unicorn]

Moral of the thread, Bono considers his little Paulie to be mole-like.

Thank God it's without eyes.

 

[chork]

Just google images of "naked mole rat" and then we'll talk.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Thank God it's without eyes.

Only one

 

[ozeeko]

I don't really have a problem with excavation or the mole. I was being facetious in taking the lyrics super literally.

In reference to the "digging up my soul" lines, yea the excavating mole angle makes sense.

But attributing the excavation directly to the literal act of fornicating just seems hilariously wrong to me. Reminds me of an old player friend of mine who would call himself an "archeologist"...use your imagination...

 

[IrishDawg]

One thing that sticks out to me in this song is Larry's drumming. It's not drowned out in the background like it has been in recent records. At least when it first kicks in.