The Super Terrific MLB Thread - Part 3

[Headache in a Suitcase]

where ever the heat are, they do quite well.

i'm not up on my miami geography... but one would think they would do better attendance wise if they were closer to civilization.

 

[speedracer]

and of course they need to not have a fire sale every 5 years.

I thought this was part of their plan. Since they know they're not pulling enough revenue to be competitive year-in and year-out, they try to cobble together just enough young players and free agents to win every 6 years, then trade them all away.

 

[Hewson]

where ever the heat are, they do quite well.

i'm not up on my miami geography... but one would think they would do better attendance wise if they were closer to civilization.

The Heat play right next to Bayside, on the water, a Faneuil Hall-esque shopping area in a nice section. No room there for a stadium though. When I think of downtown I think of closer to the Orange Bowl, not too great. There's plenty of folks a short drive from Opa Locka where Dolphin Stadium is, and the Fins sell well in the same building. The location isn't the problem. The facility isn't really great for baseball, but the summer heat and aging population are the biggest issues.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I thought this was part of their plan. Since they know they're not pulling enough revenue to be competitive year-in and year-out, they try to cobble together just enough young players and free agents to win every 6 years, then trade them all away.

and every 6 years they draw well...

the twins and a's, for the most part, have been able to use a similar method of doing business while not completely gutting the team every 5-6 years.

then again, the marlins have two world series' in the past 10 years, where as the twins and a's can't even get out of the first round.



temporary success vs. sustained success. i suppose one could argue either way.

 

[CTU2fan]

The thing about the A's is they don't even draw when they win. I remember watching A's playoff games with the stadium only 2/3 full, if that. At least when the Twins are decent they seem to draw.

Then you have a team like the Orioles...great ballpark, great fanbase, and they still don't draw because they've had it with years & years of horrible ownership/management.

 

[DaveC]

 

[Dalton]

Fookin' Indians CAN NOT lose.

Its like manifest destiny in reverse.

 

[Dalton]

temporary success vs. sustained success. i suppose one could argue either way.

Did someone say "success"?

I'm in!

Sincerely,

Tiger Fan

 

[DaveC]

God dammit I wish TSN chose to run the ESPN feed of the Sox-Yanks game instead of a "tilt" (think pinball) between the two worst teams in the Canadian Football League. Watching this game on MLB Gameday doesn't quite cut it.



ETA: Phils

 

[CTU2fan]

You know what? I'm sick of the Sox/Yanks rivalry. Yeah it's probably cuz I'm pissed the Sox lost, but it's getting ridiculous. 4+ hour games, both offenses straight out of Nintendo (press the B button, poof, 4 runs in like half a minute). It's getting stupid.

 

[zoney!]

The Twins fired their GM? How did I miss that? I've always thought Ryan was an excellent GM, especially for a penny-pinching club like Minnesota. Marlins would be a logical fit.

Penny-Pinching? No.

Small market in a professional sport that does not "share"? Yes.

I am SURE every team would love to spend money like the Red Sox and Yankees (and Mets). Some just can't.

 

[DaveC]

Wow, the Mets are useless

 

[speedracer]

You know what? I'm sick of the Sox/Yanks rivalry. Yeah it's probably cuz I'm pissed the Sox lost, but it's getting ridiculous. 4+ hour games, both offenses straight out of Nintendo (press the B button, poof, 4 runs in like half a minute). It's getting stupid.

I was upset enough after Friday's game that I told myself I wouldn't follow today's game in any way, shape or form until it was over (being on the west coast and getting stuck with the Dodgers game helped).

I feel a lot better now.

 

[ET]

Cubbies, Cubbies, Cubbies....

nuff said...

 

[DaveC]

I really wish I didn't have to root for the San Francisco Giants right now

 

[Dalton]

Damn you Boston!

My tigers should only be a game and a half back in the wild card. Damn you.

 

[Dalton]

Penny-Pinching? No.

Small market in a professional sport that does not "share"? Yes.

I am SURE every team would love to spend money like the Red Sox and Yankees (and Mets). Some just can't.

Come on Zoney. What cloud are you living Pohlad is known for being cheap.

He can't spend like the yankmes, but they can certainly do more than they do.

 

[CTU2fan]

Penny-Pinching? No.

Small market in a professional sport that does not "share"? Yes.

I am SURE every team would love to spend money like the Red Sox and Yankees (and Mets). Some just can't.

Twins owner Carl Pohlad (sp?) is one of the richest men in America. He's worth more than George Steinbrenner. Yes they're a small-market club but the way clubs like the Twins and Royals are run is a disgrace. Under the new system you have teams pulling in more in revenue sharing and luxury tax money than they spend on payroll. I don't expect the smaller market teams to spend like the Sox or NYY but Minnesota has been very close to being a legit contender the past 5 years, if you're not willing to loosen the purse strings to add a bat during your window of opportunity (when you have a guy like Santana in your rotation) then you shouldn't own an MLB team. Remember this is a team that welcomed contraction...

 

[CTU2fan]

I was upset enough after Friday's game that I told myself I wouldn't follow today's game in any way, shape or form until it was over (being on the west coast and getting stuck with the Dodgers game helped).

I feel a lot better now.

I do too. The Sox really came out strong yesterday. Despite Friday's meltdown I'm encouraged by 3 things:

1 - They pretty much had their way with NYY's 2 most reliable pitchers (Pettitte & Wang)
2 - I thought they looked a little tight on Friday but yesterday they played with a definite edge...and Beckett finally retaliated for the Youkilis buzzings, and did it the "right" way (not at the head, hands, or knees, and with a good fastball.
3 - Youk's Xray was apparently negative

Tonight Schilling vs. Rocket with a chance to end the race for good.

Oh and go Tigers

 

[zoney!]

Twins owner Carl Pohlad (sp?) is one of the richest men in America. He's worth more than George Steinbrenner. Yes they're a small-market club but the way clubs like the Twins and Royals are run is a disgrace. Under the new system you have teams pulling in more in revenue sharing and luxury tax money than they spend on payroll. I don't expect the smaller market teams to spend like the Sox or NYY but Minnesota has been very close to being a legit contender the past 5 years, if you're not willing to loosen the purse strings to add a bat during your window of opportunity (when you have a guy like Santana in your rotation) then you shouldn't own an MLB team. Remember this is a team that welcomed contraction...

Pohlad and Steinbrenner's personal wealth has NOTHING to do with this. Nothing. The money that Boston and the two New York teams use to spend on players does not come from the owners personal wealth. That is such a fallacy. I can't believe people still believe that. It is a business...and sinking personal wealth in order to win a championship doesn't bring a financial return.

As for contraction...it was Pohlad's way of getting fiesty Minnesotans to put up some cash to get a stadium. Minnesotans aren't quite as gullible as other inhabitants of our country. They know that personal wealth spent on a venue will bring a return. And that even if your team moves (Lakers and North Stars), the league will return (Timberwolves and Wild). Contraction was an idle threat with Florida and Montreal in the league.

And if you ask me (outside of the past trade dealine), the Twins have been in the playoffs (or close) just as much as the Yankees have been over the past five years. The Yankees aren't wearing any rings from those years. The Red Sox have one ring over the past how many years? They didn't even make the playoffs last year. Sure, as a Twins fan, I would have loved to see a defensive third baseman with a bat added. But, who was out there, and where did they go?

Terry Ryan is not leaving the team...he is just leaving the GM position. He is akin to Bill Polian - knows how to fill the holes with TALENT, often groomed in their farm system.

It is not all about the money. That is a lousy argument.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Wow, the Mets are useless

it is uncanny how the mets, in the past 3 weeks have beaten roy oswalt, aaron harang, john smoltz (twice), tim hudson (twice), chris young and brad penny, yet have lost to tom shearn, buddy carslile and the dreadful phillies pitching staff...

but, alas, i wouldn't get too up there...

the phils still
a) need to actually, you know, make the playoffs
b) still have charlie manuel
c) still have an absolutely dreadful pitching staff

of all the teams with the chances of making the playoffs, the phillies are, by far, the team i'd rather face.

 

[phillyfan26]

the phils still
a) need to actually, you know, make the playoffs
b) still have charlie manuel
c) still have an absolutely dreadful pitching staff

I give up. I'm done trying to make this make sense.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

it makes zero sense whatsoever who knows... it is just wacky how they just can't get a hit in a big spot against bad pitching, yet have beaten all of the top pitchers in the NL (with the exception of peavy and the diamondbacks starters, who they didn't play of course) over the past 3 weeks.

lack of concentration? pushing/trying too hard? pure shit luck that they limit the phillies offensive production yet still can't get a hit? i have no idea.

 

[phillyfan26]

Adam Eaton does well against them. That sums it up right there.

 

[CTU2fan]

Pohlad and Steinbrenner's personal wealth has NOTHING to do with this. Nothing. The money that Boston and the two New York teams use to spend on players does not come from the owners personal wealth. That is such a fallacy. I can't believe people still believe that. It is a business...and sinking personal wealth in order to win a championship doesn't bring a financial return.

As for contraction...it was Pohlad's way of getting fiesty Minnesotans to put up some cash to get a stadium. Minnesotans aren't quite as gullible as other inhabitants of our country. They know that personal wealth spent on a venue will bring a return. And that even if your team moves (Lakers and North Stars), the league will return (Timberwolves and Wild). Contraction was an idle threat with Florida and Montreal in the league.

And if you ask me (outside of the past trade dealine), the Twins have been in the playoffs (or close) just as much as the Yankees have been over the past five years. The Yankees aren't wearing any rings from those years. The Red Sox have one ring over the past how many years? They didn't even make the playoffs last year. Sure, as a Twins fan, I would have loved to see a defensive third baseman with a bat added. But, who was out there, and where did they go?

Terry Ryan is not leaving the team...he is just leaving the GM position. He is akin to Bill Polian - knows how to fill the holes with TALENT, often groomed in their farm system.

It is not all about the money. That is a lousy argument.

I understand that George Steinbrenner & John Henry don't pay the Yanks & Sox players out of their pockets, but you have to admit that owners like Steinbrenner & Mark Cuban for example are willing to reach into their own pockets to make their teams competitive. Certain owners are willing to sacrifice a little personal wealth in the name of winning, while others are content spend less so the club is profitable and sacrifice some competitiveness. People don't buy sports franchises to make money; they're generally pretty lousy investments, the Yankees notwithstanding. To be clear I don't expect the guy to run his team deep in the red every year and go broke doing it, but having a payroll lower than what you're taking in in subsidies from other clubs, I have a problem with that.

And as for the last part, that was my whole point basically. When you are a smaller market club you're not going to be in the playoff picture every year, so when you have an opportunity (when you have good young talent like Mauer, Morneau, Santana, Nathan etc) you need to somewhat "go for it".

But maybe things are changing a bit out there...from what I've read re: the Hunter situation the Twins offered a very competitive extension; I was a bit surprised he didn't take it. I think they'll be happy he didn't in the end, as invesing the money in long term deals to keep Santana or Morneau is probably a better idea (though I think Santana will end up leaving, he'll probably get a crazy deal from somebody).

 

[zoney!]

And as for the last part, that was my whole point basically. When you are a smaller market club you're not going to be in the playoff picture every year, so when you have an opportunity (when you have good young talent like Mauer, Morneau, Santana, Nathan etc) you need to somewhat "go for it".

But maybe things are changing a bit out there...from what I've read re: the Hunter situation the Twins offered a very competitive extension; I was a bit surprised he didn't take it. I think they'll be happy he didn't in the end, as invesing the money in long term deals to keep Santana or Morneau is probably a better idea (though I think Santana will end up leaving, he'll probably get a crazy deal from somebody).

To be honest with you, I am not sure that this is the year for the Twins to blow the money. Detroit and Cleveland are more competitive this year than they were last year, and the Twins were not pulling together like past years. Santana has had a pretty ugly second half. I think they were better off not spending the money.

The Tigers did not make any moves...they are 2.5 games out of the wild card.

I have a feeling they will resign Santana.

 

[zoney!]

c) still have an absolutely dreadful pitching staff

At least they do not have to worry about Alfonseca screwing things up for a few games.

 

[DaveC]

I actually get worried when they announce that Tom Gordon's warming up in the pen.

 

[No spoken words]

Gordon was a pretty solid set-up man for the Yanks. But, in the playoffs, he was horrid and apparently was puking before games. Not good.

 

[DaveC]

It seems every time there's a blown game, or it gets close or the bases get loaded, it's ALWAYS Gordon or Alfonseca, but for some mystifying reason they're always the first two Manuel goes to.

J.C. Romero's probably the only semi-reliable pitcher in our bullpen right now.