High Violet is a really muddy, drab-sounding album, but all 11 of its tracks are solid. It's a great listen if you're looking for some grey indie rock, but virtually everything they've put out has a greater emotional impact on me despite the profound degree of nostalgia I have for HV because their other albums are generally less mannered and safe. Even TWFM stretches their sonic palette out further (i.e. at all) despite the criticism it received for being Just Another National Album.
Boxer deserves credit as an indie rock touchstone for its sublime chamber pop production and endless supply of great songwriting. When I return to it, I'm consistently staggered by how many classics are on it (Fake Empire, Mistaken for Strangers, Slow Show, Apartment Story, Start a War). In retrospect, the album was the formation of their signature sound, but it was, at the time, something of a left turn. They doubled down on qualities of their sound that weren't being privileged in their live show (remember when Matt's screams were such a big deal that they made their way onto the records?) and inadvertently created an identity for themselves.
The band's signature characteristics were embraced for HV, which was their first attempt at crystallizing their sound into something consistently midtempo instead of jarringly bipolar (Sad Songs, Alligator) or almost entirely downbeat and graceful (Boxer). I don't like that they made this move because it sanded a lot of the edges off, but it was undeniably a success for them. I think the transition out of Boxer was handled well, but I doubt I'll be as impacted by any of their future albums as I was by that one. It showed up in my life at the right time and introduced me to a band that didn't feel larger than life. Their music felt personal and hand-crafted and I could root for them. Streamlining that sound into something bigger, more reverb-drenched and obvious worked out great for their career, but I couldn't connect with it in the same way.
Now with Sleep Well Beast at least they seem interested in embracing subtlety and dynamics again. I loved TWFM more than most, but it and HV were not their most subtle works from either a lyrical or sonic perspective, and the band hadn't exactly sounded dynamic since Alligator. I listen to Sleep Well Beast and, at least for a while, am kept on my toes.
I think this is exceedingly harsh. We’re not going to agree, but to me, it’s full of vitality and emotion. A lot of the claims you level at High Violet - drab, grey, midtempo - are exactly what I think of Boxer. Adore Fake Empire, Mistaken for Strangers, Brainy, Apartment Story, Slow Show, the rest is a complete wash for me. Squalor Victoria I’ve come around to only because of the drumming and the memories of the stellar live version. It’s a pleasant listen from start to finish but doesn’t come remotely close to High Violet or TWFM me for impact in my opinion. And try as I might, I can’t hear these drastic differences between Boxer and High Violet. I get where you’re coming from in terms of them going from a heroic small indie rock band whose reach exceeded their grasp to one that nailed a certain sound and got hugely popular off it, but I think that really undersells the astonishing strength of the songwriting found on High Violet and TWFM.
I think you're right that something changed with High Violet in terms of their fan base. I saw them right at the beginning of that tour in a small venue surrounded by intense fans, the type that were yelling out for tracks from Sad Songs. Then I saw them again on the final leg of that tour at a sizable venue that was largely full of frat types seemingly there to be seen rather than for the music. Anecdotal, I know, but I think it puts Sleep Well Beast into an even more impressive perspective that they have now eschewed a lot of what was drawing in the frat crowd. I mean, none of these songs are going to appear in an Apple commercial the way England did a few years back.
Firstly, that’s not their fault and secondly I think it’s a misrepresentation. At least from the crowds I’ve seen at the four shows I’ve seen them at (one High Violet, three TWFM). Maybe it’s different in America but again I think this really undersells the band and makes them seem like they’ve forsaken indie-rock-for-the-little-guy for indistinguishable, safe arena music, which I just think is crap.
Not every song on there is Little Faith.
I ADORE Little Faith. I’ve never been able to understand what people hate about it. The strung-out intro leads into this on-edge piano and then Matt walks in with these creepy vocals. It’s a fucking fantastic song.
Yeah, I'd say the only thing they haven't done enough of with their studio albums is allowed that raw edge from their live performances into the mix. Even when they did the alternate mix of Terrible Love, it never got close to the visceral noise of that song when it's at full blast. I saw them in 2010 close their set with Terrible Love and it's the loudest single song I have heard in concert.
Graceless is a similar case. That song fucking rocks live, and in the studio it's a little too muted.
I can agree with this. Turtleneck is their most aggressive studio track since Alligator, if not Sad Songs. But I don’t mind it too much, cos it makes the live shows go on another level.
So you'd rank Sleep Well Beast only above the debut? Nothing wrong with your opinion but it's such a shame you're disappointed with the new album, sucks when that happens. Where would you slot in Cherry Tree just out of interest?
And I wouldn't worry about liking what you like if it goes against the cool kid consensus. There's people on this board who rank NLOTH as their second favourite U2 album. Not my preference but more power to them, right? And besides, you wouldn't be Cobbler if you didn't champion the material that comes out right after the critical peak.
I'd also add my axe to what El Mel, iYup and Phils said above regarding HV/TWFM. I don't find myself returning to those albums nearly as much as Cherry Tree - Alligator - Boxer for those reasons, but I feel a kind of In Rainbows moment happening with ...Beast, after liking but not loving the two albums prior to them both. Won't be surprised if this and Boxer become my top two Nationals by year end.
Haha. I do like Sleep Well Beast, just don’t love it at this point in time. (Although it’s worth noting High Violet is The National’s highest-scored album on Pitchfork…)
I think at the moment, I’d rate them:
1. Trouble Will Find Me
2. High Violet
3. Alligator
4. Sad Songs for Dirty Lovers
Too early to say between Boxer and Sleep Well Beast. Cherry Tree is great, and contains one of their all-time greatest songs, but probably falls in behind. I’ve not heard the debut.
Mind you, it’s worth repeating that I like all of them. I fucking adore this band, just like everyone here, but just wanted to vocalise an interesting trend I’ve seen thanks to the release of Sleep Well Beast: it’s been much more warmly received by pre-HV fans than it has been by HV-onwards fans. There’s a definite divide between the two groups, and I’m definitely in the latter, and I just get a little annoyed sometimes because I feel this implication (generally) that those who came to the band with HV are simpletons.
45 songs in the tour’s 11 shows so far, by the way. There was 61 in 165 on TWFM tour. Exciting times to be a National fan.