Songs of _________________; New album discussion #7
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lightmyway91
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Pearl jam’s Setlist rotation is often overrated imo. Yes it’s a fact that from one night to the next they have good variety but if you had attended every Pearl jam tour and the equivalent amount of u2 tours I reckon the number of songs witnessed wouldn’t be much different between the two. The reason for that is that whilst night to night U2’s rotation usually hasn’t been high from tour to tour we usually get significantly different sets because they tend to give new material a chance. So as an example i attended I&E Glasgow night 2 and E&I Berlin (tour finale) and seen a total of 42 different songs between they shows. I doubt pearl jam have 2 shows only 3 years apart that have such different setlists. I could add in JT Twickenham and there were a further 11 songs in that show that weren’t played at the other 2 mentioned so 53 different songs in 3 shows. There rotation is just as good if not better than pearl jam it’s just done from tour to tour not night to night.
mikal
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Doesn't change the fact though that you could see 2 consecutive Pearl Jam shows and have completely different setlists.
lightmyway91
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It doesn’t change that fact but I think it takes away the significance from it. Ultimately you are still seeing as many different u2 songs and as much rotation it’s just spread over a different timescale.
do you really want to make this bet?
lightmyway91
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No bet needed but I’d be happy to have a quick look on Setlist.fm if you want to as well and pick out some different pearl jam shows 3 years apart to compare but I’d be quite surprised if they’d played more different songs over the 2 shows than u2. Picking out a particularly long PJ set might help their cause though. I could also pick out u2 setlists though that had slightly more variation between 2 shows. I only picked out gigs I was at.
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i've seen U2 27 times. in those 27 shows they played 100 unique songs.
i've seen Pearl Jam 13 times. in those 13 shows they played 135 unique songs.
i've seen Pearl Jam 13 times. in those 13 shows they played 135 unique songs.
and while we're doing comparisons.
10 springsteen shows - 105 unique songs.
10 springsteen shows - 105 unique songs.
mind you - i love all three live, for different reasons.
but yea - U2's setlist rotation isn't remotely close to that of Pearl Jam . and that's fine. they do different things well.
but yea - U2's setlist rotation isn't remotely close to that of Pearl Jam . and that's fine. they do different things well.
Setlist rotation should really be viewed within a single tour, IMO. That’s where the issue some of us have is - multiple nights on a U2 tour are less compelling than multiple nights on a PJ/Bruce(/GBV!) tour from a song variety perspective.
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i know you're not the one making the argument... but to take your point, according to Setlist.fm
U2 - innocence and experience tour - 84 shows - 57 unique songs.
Pearl Jam 2016 tour - 25 shows. 170 unique songs.
lightmyway91
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For that stat to matter you would need to highlight how many tours you’ve seen. It’s specifically about the band rotating more from tour to tour rather than night to night. So if you take the bands careers the rotation would be similar I feel. The number of shows isn’t really important because you could have seen 60 shows on the E&I tour and not had a big number but someone seeing 20 shows over the course of the bands career would have witnessed more different songs.
ummm no but since you asked...
can we put this to rest now?
my favorite U2 concert statistic.
i've seen them 27 times. at 4 of those shows Vertigo wasn't played.
I've seen Vertigo performed 26 times.
i've seen them 27 times. at 4 of those shows Vertigo wasn't played.
I've seen Vertigo performed 26 times.
lightmyway91
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That doesn’t put it to rest. That just proves that over the course of a tour pearl jam play more songs than u2 over the course of a tour, a single tour. But if you take the bands careers well Pearl jam’s number isn’t going to increase by much each tour is it if they’re playing them all? If Pearl jam played their whole catalogue on a tour then all the other tours put together don’t add anything on to that figure. But if u2 play 50 different songs on one tour they’ve still got another couple of hundred songs they might have played on previous tours. So again night to night pearl jam rotate more but over the length of their careers it won’t be much different.
lightmyway91
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I should also add I wouldn’t consider covers as part of the conversation but that’s just me, I generally dislike covers. If u2 played 23 songs and 3 of them are covers then they’ve played 20 songs the way I look at it.
lightmyway91
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The point is take someone who attended 1 pearl jam every tour of their career and take someone who attended 1 u2 show every tour of their career (from when pearl jam started touring to make it fair) and they’ll have likely seen as many different songs from each band.
oh my god.
i've seen them on the same number of tours - 6 each.
i have no idea why you're going down what is clearly and obviously an incorrect path.
according to Setlist.fm U2 have played live 304 unique songs over their entire career.
pearl jam, in a career half as long, have played 414 unique songs.
in 800 fewer shows.
this doesn't mean U2 aren't great live. it just means that they're not looking to do the same things in a live setting.
lightmyway91
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Pearl jam don’t even have 414 songs do they? so you’re including covers which is fine, that’s fair. But you’re still not getting the point. Who is getting to see pearl jam every single gig of every single tour to witness all they different songs? Nobody. Most fans only attend 1 show a tour. Even if for arguments sake it was a couple of shows a tour that’s where the stats matter. I have never questioned that pearl jam have rotated more from night to night. Since you’ve seen them on the same number of tours here’s a better way of me trying to back up my example better. Take one random show from each tour for each band so 6 shows per band. Then add up the number of different songs you’ve seen from both. There won’t be a big difference. I was at 3 consecutive shows (consecutive to me specifically) on 3 different tours and witnessed 52 different u2 songs. Pick one show from each of the last 3 pearl jam tours you’ve seen. How many different songs were played.
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I think you are maybe looking a bit too much at recent PJ tours where they haven't (until this year) had new material. They had a long gap between 2013 and 2020 between albums yet toured most years (something U2 doesn't do).
But if you go back and do your exercise when PJ was releasing albums more frequently, your argument will fall apart as they play the majority of their new album when they tour normally.
Example: 2013 I saw 3 shows (2 in Worcester MA 1 in Hartford CT), I saw 10 of the 12 songs from the Lightning Bolt album played over those 3 nights, only 2 songs were in the set all 3 nights (Mind Your Manners and Sirens).
I fall into the category of having seen every U2 tour since PJ Norh American tour since 1994 aside from this year as they didn't hit my neck of the woods. I have seen many more PJ songs than U2 songs overall, and that includes U2 tours back to the UF tour Its basically 30 shows from each band too so no advantage either way on that account), so if we truncate it to 1991 the difference would be greater.
So long story short, as Headache has stated, your argument holds no water.
The John Tree
War Child
He really is the king at switching up the set. I've seen 12 Springsteen shows and each one was drastically different. Hell, I even got The Promise live (full band) for the first and only time since 1978 in DC. I even got the E Street Band playing Hava Nagila.
I'm embarrassed to say this as a fan, but when they closed with this one at FedEx Field in 2017, I headed for the exits to try and beat the traffic. I've had enough of Vertigo.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Ha. I know a few folks who can say otherwise. There are folks who follow them for entire legs of tours much like Deadheads used to follow the Grateful Dead.
I don't follow them, but did attend all 3 shows of the "Mansfield experiment" in 2003 when they decided to play every song they had played on that leg of the tour over the 3 nights. They realized how many songs they had been playing and had to add an acoustic hour long preset before Sleater Kinney on night 3. Saw 105 unique songs over 3 shows.
There is no comparison between the 2 bands when it comes to setlist variation.
OP
OP
Registered Dude
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
just to change tact.. and I cant believe I'm saying this as it challenges all kinds of assumptions - But if the choice is Ryan Tedder or Jackknife lee for new u2 music, I think I want Tedder. I'm basing this off of what we heard from this band from the last 5 years, and what I want in terms of sound from a U2 song (not what I what from a song, necessarily)
Songs where Lee is the primary producer (acknowledged as such in liner notes)
Your Song Saved My Life
Love is Bigger than anything
The Blackout
Landlady
American Soul
Youre the Best Thing
Lights of Home
Songs where Tedder is
13
The Showman
Red Flag Day
Summer of Love
Get Out Of Your Own Way
Ok obviously this is an exercise that is kinda pointless.. and there are many other producers tied to these tracks.. but I dont know.. of those two sets of songs, I think the latter sound more organic and dynamic, and most importantly less forced. (important exceptions to each: GOOYOW brings Tedder down and Landlady is a point for Jacknife Lee)
Is the producer to account for this? They might be! Who's sound do you folks prefer?
Songs where Lee is the primary producer (acknowledged as such in liner notes)
Your Song Saved My Life
Love is Bigger than anything
The Blackout
Landlady
American Soul
Youre the Best Thing
Lights of Home
Songs where Tedder is
13
The Showman
Red Flag Day
Summer of Love
Get Out Of Your Own Way
Ok obviously this is an exercise that is kinda pointless.. and there are many other producers tied to these tracks.. but I dont know.. of those two sets of songs, I think the latter sound more organic and dynamic, and most importantly less forced. (important exceptions to each: GOOYOW brings Tedder down and Landlady is a point for Jacknife Lee)
Is the producer to account for this? They might be! Who's sound do you folks prefer?
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The John Tree
War Child
yeah, I thought Pearl Jam was the new Grateful Dead, with regards to fans traveling. The Jamily, or something like that.
Regardless, as has been stated before: it doesn't matter. They're both excellent live acts. I think U2 reigns supreme because I like their music better, I find Bono to be the more entertaining performer, and I'm a sucker for a spectacle. But they're both excellent.
But it's silly to suggest that U2 and Pearl Jam are comparable in terms of setlist diversity. The very nature of U2's shows doesn't allow it. They have big set pieces. Swapping out something like Cedarwood Road on the Songs of Innocence tour wouldn't be feasible considering they created an entire digital neighborhood for Bono to walk through.
The John Tree
War Child
This is actually an interesting point. I agree with you.
Still - fuck both of them. Give me Andy Barlow.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Give me Danger Mouse.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
I'll take Eno and Lanois
you won't give up, i give you that.
one show from last three tours
pearl jam - 70 unique songs
u2 - 51 unique songs
and two of those last 3 u2 tours had one tour where they played a full album and another where they completely eliminated the album - which in theory would drive the numbers up in comparison to their normal tours.
and pearl jam only had one album to promote during those three tours - so in theory, that would drive their numbers down.
enjoy your day.
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