New Album Discussion 1 - Songs of..... - Unreasonable guitar album

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lazarus said:
So this obsession with crafting the perfect pop song on paper plus their Too Many Cooks indecisiveness on producers and sound is what made the last three albums such frustrating listens, despite the moments of greatness.
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Yup.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
But that's where I fully disagree.

In the late 80s big hair bands started dominating, so U2 lost the mullets and became very serious.

In the early 90s grunge was exploding, so U2 shifted to be less serious and have a more industrial sound.

When they started Pop we were leaving grunge and getting very light, pop punk and, like, a post grunge mishmosh of whatever the heck we want to call it. U2 went electronic-lite.

The late 90s and early 2000s was full of a lot of fake, plastic sounding music. Nu metal, boy bands, electronics, etc. U2 returned to a more earnest, classic coke sound.

the early 2000s shift was no less calculated than the early 90s shift. Different styles, but same reasoning.

Mid 2000s was a bit of a double-down. The music industry was in a strange place. But their big shift was to be the first of the major acts to really embrace new media and downloads vs physical albums with the apple deal. They again stayed one step ahead and were as big as ever.

Where it broke was on No Line - where the band set out to do the same thing - morph to stay ahead of the curve. But they got cold feet and stripped out a lot of what would have made No Line stand out.

But at that point they had eclipsed where they were even in the mid 90s and grown to a place where even a bad album couldn't stop a huge tour.

SOI and SOE featured more of the same. They tried to shift by going with a producer with a very unique sound in Danger Mouse, but again got cold feet and watered it down (and tried to double back with apple to disastrous results).

But live they were still as big a draw as there was in the world. Down from the heights of 360, but still a top 2 global touring act.

So they got themselves caught in this space where they were huge and old and past the point where anyone really gave a crap about new music other than hardcore fans - but they couldn't really accept that and kept watering down their releases to appeal to the masses, which doesn't work when you're old.

They want to still be a band that makes new music that matters, which is admirable, but have reached a point where the olds just want the hits and he youngs don't give a shit.

Every major, long running act goes through it. You either accept that you're old and deal, or you deny it and you try to keep on keeping on, which leads to failure.

I would argue that their initial instincts going into No Line and going into the SONGS OF period were correct, but they lost their sack and couldn't follow through because they got too caught up in caring what the youngs thought, and the desire to remain huge with their new releases instead of just accepting who they were.

I'm done rambling now.

I guess my TL: dr is this - I disagree with the idea that they used to let the creative drive he commerce until post 2000.

They ALWAYS let the commerce drive the creative. It just didn't work as well as things went on because they got too old and big.
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Still think we’re on a similar page. I don’t disagree about commerce driving the creative, more just about what the result ends up being. I see your point about ATYCLB’s return to form was bucking 90s trends and ended up at the beginning of a general 00s return to earnestness and big pop rock anthems. That’s fair. I suppose the issue to me is that maybe it’s an interesting reinvention in regards to the contemporary music landscape, but less so in regards to the rest of their catalogue.

Again, I’m not going to mistake an ATYCLB song as something from any earlier album, but I suppose my feeling is that the reinventions post-Pop just seem less risky. And yes, entering a certain age, with the weight of recent flops it makes sense that they’d play things safer, since their audience is less willing to go out with them on limbs.

They haven’t completely lost their instincts by any means, just their follow through. I don’t really blame them but that’s just the difference between the old and the new.
 
Rick Rubin and Spider-Man is what changed U2 (Bono and Edge) song writing direction.

I’m sure they lean into it a bit more with age as they don’t feel like noodling in the studio for days/weeks/months.

I’d love for them to go out by booking extended studio time and just jamming like they used to. Knowing it’s the last U2 record, no worries of HITS CHARTS POP KIDS, and see what comes out of four old men who’ve become family over 40+ years produces.
 
So Eno designing the stage and Danny joining them for One... Is there any hope that this is a sign of their involvement with the next albums in progress? I mean, they did allow the band to put Stand Up Comedy and Boots on an album, so they aren't perfect by any means. But it would be a nice way to round out their final recordings to have them at the helm.
 
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womanfish said:
So Eno designing the stage and Danny joining them for WOWY... Is there any hope that this is a sign of their involvement with the next albums in progress? I mean, they did allow the band to put Stand Up Comedy and Boots on an album, so they aren't perfect by any means. But it would be a nice way to round out their final recordings to have them at the helm.
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Here's hoping. Just one more with Eno Lanois before calling it a day.

Eno also did the ambient mixes that you heard at Sphere in the shitter, and did some work on SOS as well. So maybe there's hope
 
womanfish said:
So Eno designing the stage and Danny joining them for One... Is there any hope that this is a sign of their involvement with the next albums in progress? I mean, they did allow the band to put Stand Up Comedy and Boots on an album, so they aren't perfect by any means. But it would be a nice way to round out their final recordings to have them at the helm.
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The little bits of collaboration you mention are definitely promising... I don't think there's any guarantee they'll be back, but I wouldn't be shocked if E&L returned in some capacity for Songs of Ascent - even if it was just a minor contribution, like producing one or two songs, or providing 'additional production' beyond what another, primary producer does - especially given SoA began life as a spin-off of studio work with those two to begin with.

I do think if Eno and Lanois return, it wouldn't be until Songs of Ascent, and the 'rock album' up next will have someone completely different (I'm guessing Lillywhite and Jacknife Lee, who did Atomic City, and much of Songs of Experience).
 
Would love an Eno and Lanois return at some point. Agree that it would likely be linked to the Songs of Ascent record, since that record seems so to stem from the No Line sessions. Let's hope they don't overcook SOA and try to make it more mainstream like they did with No Line (IMO). I think with the latest records (especially SOS) it seems like they matured past the trying to please the mainstream phase.
 
They are the best band of all time. They have made 100 songs I love. A few duds. But hit it out of the park more than anyone. I would listen to Bono sing anything. If they never make another new song it will be sad, but they already made more great music than most bands people listen to forever and ever. Some artists have 1 or 2 songs.

I have no complaints. (not true, just I'm still hyped by The Sphere).
 
I don't know though, call it wishful thinking, but I believe the rumors as written. I know it's U2 and things are never that clean, but I can believe that there's a serious effort to get an album out this year and a tour going next year.
 
I could imagine the bulk of writing/recording is already done, and possibly has been for a while.

By autumn it'll be 7(!) years since the last album, after all. They surely have done something with it in that time. I would bet COVID + Larry's injuries are more responsible for them not releasing an album yet, versus lack of progress writing/recording the thing.
 
I'm intrigued to learn more about who's producing the latest album when it does finally drop.

I had imagined it would be Lillywhite and Flood, based on that team working on Atomic City and helping to finish up SoE.

But I wonder if it will only be them, or if again, they're finishing music initially produced by someone else (as with Ryan Tedder and Andy Barlow for SoE).

Atomic city had some of my favourite production of U2 in years. Rough around the edges, aggressive drums etc. I hope they're able to stick to that sound, and move away from the (imo) sterile, compromised, overburdened sound of SoE.
 
Registered Dude said:
some tidbits from u2songs' sources, for those who trust: recording in LA with Larry; Lillywhite and Jacknife Lee producing; targeting fall 2024; stadium tour rumblings

u2songs | Crystal Ballroom: What's Next? |

U2Songs.com
www.u2songs.com
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Very interesting. The production team makes sense in the context of Atomic City, but also Edge's appearance on the Lol Tolhurst / Budgie / Jacknife Lee album and Jacknife Lee's involvement with Bono's tour.

To echo what others have said, this news makes me wonder if this is a process of recording songs/ideas that have been around for a while - in search of that 'live' sound they've talked about multiple times before.
 
JamietheEdgefan said:
But I wonder if it will only be them, or if again, they're finishing music initially produced by someone else (as with Ryan Tedder and Andy Barlow for SoE).
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I'd love to hear Andy Barlow work with U2 again. Little Things and Book of your Heart were my favourite songs and also (to my ears) the most progressive sounding songs on the last album.

JamietheEdgefan said:
Atomic city had some of my favourite production of U2 in years. Rough around the edges, aggressive drums etc. I hope they're able to stick to that sound, and move away from the (imo) sterile, compromised, overburdened sound of SoE.
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I wonder if that sound also comes from them getting Tom Elmhirst to mix it. I've just listened to Adele's 'Rolling in the Deep' and 'Rumour Has It' (which Elmhirst also mixed) and to my ears, there's a similarity to the sound on Atomic City - especially the drums.
 
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JamietheEdgefan said:
I'm intrigued to learn more about who's producing the latest album when it does finally drop.

I had imagined it would be Lillywhite and Flood, based on that team working on Atomic City and helping to finish up SoE.

But I wonder if it will only be them, or if again, they're finishing music initially produced by someone else (as with Ryan Tedder and Andy Barlow for SoE).

Atomic city had some of my favourite production of U2 in years. Rough around the edges, aggressive drums etc. I hope they're able to stick to that sound, and move away from the (imo) sterile, compromised, overburdened sound of SoE.
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I wish I could hear it, but to my ears, Atomic City is sterile and polished rock, no major difference from your other run of the mill 'rawk' songs they've thrown at us in the last ten plus years. I think the song itself is insipid but the production ain't much better.

In my mind, the big 'f*** off rock album' that Bono described sounds like something produced by Steve Albini. Really quire dirty sounding. Something intensely raw, anything less won't cut the mustard as a rock album. And it would work for U2, at heart they are still a post-punk band that relies on the energy and spirit of performances rather than the polished refinement that they've become used to over the years.
 
MattD said:
I wish I could hear it, but to my ears, Atomic City is sterile and polished rock, no major difference from your other run of the mill 'rawk' songs they've thrown at us in the last ten plus years. I think the song itself is insipid but the production ain't much better.

In my mind, the big 'f*** off rock album' that Bono described sounds like something produced by Steve Albini. Really quire dirty sounding. Something intensely raw, anything less won't cut the mustard as a rock album. And it would work for U2, at heart they are still a post-punk band that relies on the energy and spirit of performances rather than the polished refinement that they've become used to over the years.
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Not sure Bono’s up to the task, lyrically. He thinks he’s clever but it lands as overwrought. They might be better served embracing the darkness and the murk - more in the Exit / Acrobat vein - if they want the “rock” to be effective.
 
Definitely agreeing here. You can't have a Fuck off rock album filled with bouncy little rock numbers like Atomic City. I could envision it being more in the vein of The Blackout (minus the Ned and Zach nonsense) As much as I would love it to be, I don't think they have another Exit or Acrobat in them.
Like was said - It's gotta be rougher, dirtier and darker than we've heard in a long time. Atomic Bomb type rock songs also won't cut it, too polished and put towards the middle of the road.

Also hoping they don't have a few fuck off rock songs, then tempered by the rest being over-cooked, over-thought, over... we are songwriters type stuff.

It will be interesting nonetheless.
 
Agree with the above. Having some fuck off RAWK and trying to also write a show tune doesn't seem to fit.

I kinda yearn for the vast open syllables of JT - AB era. Where Bono wasn't trying to cram 50 words into a line, or trying to come up with a witty slogan. More Zooropa or Playboy Mansion style, less freedom of a baby's head if he has to go that route.
 
bono also wasn't a billionaire with highly successful adult children when he wrote those songs.

it's harder to go dark and moody when everything's fucking peaches. i think that's why they tried to look backwards on SOI. to allow themselves a chance to be dark without just making it up.

bono's health scare gave some moments... little things and even 13 are pretty dark. i think 13 would be held in a much higher regard if Song for Someone never existed.

but what "darkness' are they supposed to tap into? the world's pretty fucking dark, so there's that. but on a personal level? what do you want them to do? oh, edge, i want you to put the Malibu chapter of the Sierra Club through your amplifier on this one!
 
7 years and no touring because of Larry. At their age, is it possible they are using this time to queue up lots and lots of work so that when they can tour they don’t have to start another 5 year cycle for the next album? They would be 70 or thereabouts by that stage. There have been so many false start albums since 2006, they’d have the material. Just start pushing it out there guys, one massive world tour with a few albums dropped along the way, close out with SOA.
 
dan_smee said:
7 years and no touring because of Larry. At their age, is it possible they are using this time to queue up lots and lots of work so that when they can tour they don’t have to start another 5 year cycle for the next album? They would be 70 or thereabouts by that stage. There have been so many false start albums since 2006, they’d have the material. Just start pushing it out there guys, one massive world tour with a few albums dropped along the way, close out with SOA.
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That makes sense to me.

With Larry's injuries, maybe they're aware that the band's days (at least, with it's original lineup) are numbered, and spacing out albums by 5+ years with a dedicated world tour each time might not be practical or desirable anymore, especially if future music itself is complete.

They've wanted to do another 'Zooropa' for a while now. NLOTH was supposed to be quickly followed by SoA, then instead by some other album (with tracks like North Star, Mercy & Glastonbury) to 'refresh' the 360 tour. Songs of Experience was supposed to come out sooner, likely without a JT tour in the middle. They clearly have an appetite (but inability) to put music out more frequently, even twice on one tour.

Bono's repeated talk of Songs of Ascent being finished, but wanting to put out a rock album first does kind of make it sound like SoA could be largely ready to go once they want it out. And they surely had enough time over the last 7 years to do something with it. With their more recent emphasis on songwriting, they could also probably make much more progress, even mid-lockdown, than during the days of endlessly jamming in a studio.

I could definitely see it being the intention to put out the next two albums back to back. But then, we know how much they like to agonise over albums, and if SoA really is their swansong, I imagine that problem would only be magnified.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
bono also wasn't a billionaire with highly successful adult children when he wrote those songs.

it's harder to go dark and moody when everything's fucking peaches. i think that's why they tried to look backwards on SOI. to allow themselves a chance to be dark without just making it up.

bono's health scare gave some moments... little things and even 13 are pretty dark. i think 13 would be held in a much higher regard if Song for Someone never existed.

but what "darkness' are they supposed to tap into? the world's pretty fucking dark, so there's that. but on a personal level? what do you want them to do? oh, edge, i want you to put the Malibu chapter of the Sierra Club through your amplifier on this one!
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This is the sound of four guys tearing down their million dollar mansions and rebuilding them back, bigger and better.

Ok Edge, play the blues!!!
 
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