NBA 2019-20 Thread

[cobl04]

A few questions from a casual who checks in to see how things are going.

1) when are fans coming back? not until everyone's vaccinated?
2) Headache's question just above is a great one?
3) can someone explain to me how the Jazz are great? last time they were this good was when they were second-best behind the bulls right?
4) how is my boys Ben Simmons and Patty Mills and Joe Ingles and Dante Exum and Delly and Thon Maker and Josh Green and Aron Baynes going?
5) is Giannis the only reason the Bucks are going well?
6) what the fuck is up with Kyrie and Westbrook and Harden?
7) has the East ever been better than the West?
8) can the Sixers win the title?
9) who is going to win the 20-21 NBA Championship?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Hewson]

7) has the East ever been better than the West?
.

Just quickly answer this one,

7. Of Course.
In the 80's during the height of the Bird vs Magic Celtics'Lakers rivalry, the east was definitely stronger. Philadelphia and Milwaukee were better than any team in the west aside from LA. Lakers usually had it pretty east in the 80s. This continued into the 90s when the Pistons emerged and them the Jordan era Bulls emerged, east was usually the tougher conference,
And I'd say the late 2000s into early 2010s when LeBron was in Miami and Celtics had Garnett and co. the east was probably at least equal most years.

Definitely other times as well. And balance of power is leveling off currently.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

In the early 2000s if Detroit wasn’t somehow in the west, the east would’ve been pretty good ?

 

[cobl04]

An Aussie now holds the record for most Jazz 3s.

 

[Diemen]

6) what the fuck is up with Kyrie and Westbrook and Harden?

Friggin’.

 

[Hewson]

Friggin’.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

A few questions from a casual who checks in to see how things are going.

1) when are fans coming back? not until everyone's vaccinated?

Most teams are punting on this season with plans to have full buildings, be it through vaccination, advanced rapid testing, etc. in time for next season. A few teams are letting a small number of people in based on local ordinances.

Some teams are trying to get creative - Golden State and Miami. Invest in Clear. It's going to play a big part in crowds returning.

2) Headache's question just above is a great one?

Ahhh I was just fucking with Laz's "everyone is a lakers hater schtick.

Nobody will talk about the Clippers until they prove they can win in the playoffs. Same with Milwaukee.

Saying this is inoffensive to everyone except Canadians.

3) can someone explain to me how the Jazz are great? last time they were this good was when they were second-best behind the bulls right?

They've been very good for a while - but they've also had a very favorable early schedule.

4) how is my boys Ben Simmons and Patty Mills and Joe Ingles and Dante Exum and Delly and Thon Maker and Josh Green and Aron Baynes going?

Use the Google machine

5) is Giannis the only reason the Bucks are going well?

No. But also yes.

6) what the fuck is up with Kyrie and Westbrook and Harden?

Kyrie likely has some mental health issues that he doesn't speak about publicly.

Westbrook is either hurt and trying to play through it or is shot. I do wonder if COVID has anything to do with it. He played well before the shutdown, got COVID before the bubble, and has sucked since the bubble. He's brutal right now.

Harden came into camp out of shape to force a trade. He'll be fine in a month or so.

He does look like the old guy who shows up at his teenage son's pickup game to school the young bloods, tho.

7) has the East ever been better than the West?

In the 90s, yes.

8) can the Sixers win the title?

If Embiid stays healthy? Yea I think so.

9) who is going to win the 20-21 NBA Championship?

Probably the Lakers but they need to keep their big two healthy. Those three months of rest mid season certainly didn't hurt in keeping them healthy last year. Marc Gasol is toast, so they have issues - but I think they'll make a few moves between now and then.

After them it's pretty wide open.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

One thing that's obvious is that this season is really fucking strange and nobody should drawn any conclusions based on early returns.

Because of the way the games were scheduled, specifically with teams playing back to backs against the same team, there are teams that have had crazy easy schedules and vice versa.

Not saying Detroit is any good but take a look at their schedule - it's been absurdly hard. They had a 15 game stretch where they played the Bucks 3 times, Boston twice, Philly twice, Miami twice, the Jazz, Lakers, Suns, Rockets, Hawks and surprisingly good Cavs.

Some teams have had key players miss a lot of time. Other teams had whole chunks of schedule postponed. It's all just really weird.

 

[gump]

Is it time to reevaluate the KP trade yet?

 

[lazarus]

9) who is going to win the 20-21 NBA Championship?

Probably the Lakers

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Is it time to reevaluate the KP trade yet?

In what way? That both teams lost?

 

[DaveC]

Nobody will talk about the Clippers until they prove they can win in the playoffs. Same with Milwaukee.

Saying this is inoffensive to everyone except Canadians.

 

[gump]

In what way? That both teams lost?

Well, that in itself is a revision, right? Because the trade was supposed to be a massive win for Dallas.

I stand by my take at the time. KP was overrated when traded, and injury prone. not being in line to pay him 150m - which any team holding his rights would be compelled to do - was in itself a good thing. But other than that:

KP + drag -> cap space -> Randle + Morris -> All Star Randle + Quickley

Also, KP in Dallas -> Dallas underperforms -> 1st round pick in the loaded 2021 draft becomes quite valuable.

I think KP was a classic example of overvaluing ceiling rather than performance and risk. It works sometimes, more often than not it doesn’t. He could still turn it around, but is very unlikely to overperform that contract.

None of this is to absolve Phil Jackson and the front office. Could they have gotten more for KP? Possibly, given reports at the time that they moved too quickly. And the good results are fortuitous - they got Morris deluding themselves they would be competitive (and only after they had like 4 PFs). And it’s the new regime that got Quickley and improved Randle. But overall the trade is still a positive - like it was back then.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Well, that in itself is a revision, right? Because the trade was supposed to be a massive win for Dallas.

I stand by my take at the time. KP was overrated when traded, and injury prone. not being in line to pay him 150m - which any team holding his rights would be compelled to do - was in itself a good thing. But other than that:

KP + drag -> cap space -> Randle + Morris -> All Star Randle + Quickley

Also, KP in Dallas -> Dallas underperforms -> 1st round pick in the loaded 2021 draft becomes quite valuable.

I think KP was a classic example of overvaluing ceiling rather than performance and risk. It works sometimes, more often than not it doesn’t. He could still turn it around, but is very unlikely to overperform that contract.

None of this is to absolve Phil Jackson and the front office. Could they have gotten more for KP? Possibly, given reports at the time that they moved too quickly. And the good results are fortuitous - they got Morris deluding themselves they would be competitive (and only after they had like 4 PFs). And it’s the new regime that got Quickley and improved Randle. But overall the trade is still a positive - like it was back then.

I can't argue with most of this other than to just reiterate your point at the bottom about how they could have gotten more at the time.

I don't think KP is overrated from a talent standpoint, but his ability to stay healthy is obviously a major concern moving forward.

Wanting to move on was fine. Trading him on a whim for a box of donuts and some cap space? They could have gotten more.

 

[gump]

I can't argue with most of this other than to just reiterate your point at the bottom about how they could have gotten more at the time.

I don't think KP is overrated from a talent standpoint, but his ability to stay healthy is obviously a major concern moving forward.

Wanting to move on was fine. Trading him on a whim for a box of donuts and some cap space? They could have gotten more.

Yeah, don’t get me wrong. It was part of a stupid plan - I didn’t even mention that the main reason why they attached drag to the KP trade is because they were sure they were getting Durant. And that they obviously didn’t evaluate DSJ well. That unprotected 1st next year is starting to look good, though. If Doncic misses any time it’s likely a lottery pick (and could be one even if he doesn’t and they continue playing this way, though I find that unlikely).

I do disagree a bit on KP though. I don’t think he is bad, but he is quite middling in terms of production (even the slightly improved version from Dallas). His defense also seems to be worse this year. Giving max contracts to these types of guys is a good way of wasting Doncic’s MVP years (they also should have kept Seth Curry).

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I'd just say that you can't disconnect the sub par performance from the injuries.

He was healthy and in shape in the bubble and looked like a monster again. And then, inevitably, he got hurt. Again.

Overall everyone, the Knicks and KP's own people (i.e. his brother) should have focused more on building his lower body strength. I think it may be a case of finding out from the start that he was better earlier than expected and rushing him into a bigger role. If he has been drafted by a team that could have brought him along slower, maybe he might not be such an injury mess. Or maybe 7'4" bodies are just not meant to play the way he plays. Who knows.

 

[gump]

Yeah. And his aging curve doesn’t look very promising. Crazy to think he will be 26 already this summer.

The whole thing makes me a bit sad. His rookie year was an oasis of excitement in a desert of Knickness. But we can’t have nice things.

 

[Hewson]

Stupid Timelord and Theis each scoring an uncontested layup for the Lakers (happy Laz, I'm talking about them).

But that save by Tatum to Timelord was worth the price of admission...

 

[gump]

Lillard should be talked about more than the Lakers. Damn, those last two three pointers.

 

[U2inUtah]

Great ending to Wizards/Nets. The back to back 3’s from Beal and Westbrook to take the lead was awesome

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

That fake crowd noise was really clutch, too

 

[U2inUtah]

Ha yeah that’s a bit annoying on tv. NBAtv seems to really crank up the fake noise. We get to have real crowd noise in Utah

 

[DaveC]

the lakers also have fake crowd noise.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

fun fact - the crowd noise in arena is significantly quieter than what you hear on TV. they crank the feed up on TV to cover up the numerous F bombs and what not.

so please don't blame the poor unfortunate employees who have been pulled from their regular scheduled jobs to do silly crowd noise things because half the company is furloughed.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Not that we know any, right

 

[Hewson]

Hey, you can't run around in your mascot costume with no crowd, so you gotta do what the boss asks.

 

[gump]

Overall I think the NBA does a much better job with fake crowd noises than MLB did. Maybe it's the nature of the sport, but it felt very artificial in baseball, not so much in basketball.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Hey, you can't run around in your mascot costume with no crowd, so you gotta do what the boss asks.

I hate you

 

[Hewson]

I hate you

It shows

 

[gump]

Unpopular opinion alert: Harden on the Nets is actually fun to watch. He's turned into prime Chris Paul, basically (ok, minus the defense).